I believe the organization at one point in time we’re not high on him. There were too many people well connected to the leafs at various points over the last few years that were saying the organization was willing to trade him or move him. Hell he almost ended up in the Muzzin deal apparently. So obviously somewhere along the line, someone in the organization had his back and really advocated for giving him an extended look and it’s looking like it’s paying off
Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2
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I believe the organization at one point in time we’re not high on him. There were too many people well connected to the leafs at various points over the last few years that were saying the organization was willing to trade him or move him. Hell he almost ended up in the Muzzin deal apparently. So obviously somewhere along the line, someone in the organization had his back and really advocated for giving him an extended look and it’s looking like it’s paying off
again not true at all. The next four picks after him have been better NHL players and that’s just a fact. Robert Thomas or Josh Norris would look real nice on our team. It wasn’t a slam dunk pick, especially consider Liljegren was sliding. It wasn’t an obvious pick at all, so I’m not sure why people keep bringing that in as a narrative and you should never draft for need. I remember wanting Norris so bad and we took Liljegren, and feeling like I did after the 2013 draft, but it’s obviously worked out
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Rants Mulliniks
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He literally fit our need to a T and was quite arguably BPA. It's rare that both hit. Forwards playing in the NHL before defensemen is not an argument that they were better picks nor that they were BPA. It's literally to be expected. Liljegren was both BPA and perfect fit. I wouldn't take any of the next 4 over him (Thomas you can at least make an argument for) and don't really know why you consider it a fact that a guy with 16 GP is clearly better?
Basically the only thing I agree with is don't pick for need (as a rule of thumb).....this was a case where both need and BPA were met (or at the very least it's an easy argument).
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I would take Norris and Robert Thomas over him easily and probably Filip C. They are both better that’s not even a question and again that’s your perspective, I didn’t feel he was BPA at the time, felt there were guys better. I always felt for whatever reason the leafs would have to trade for that RHD. Which they attempted to do anyways a year or two later. So maybe we make a better Kadri deal having one of those guys. Either way it’s worked out, but I don’t have to agree that he was BPA and I’m sure there were a lot of people who feel the same
edit and I meant to include Yamamoto not the defenseman that went right after him. So id say 4 out of the next 5*
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zeke
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Rants Mulliniks
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I will just leave it at "points does not equal better and forwards develop and peak far younger than d-men (not to mention there are twice as many positions open to a forward)".
sure, I’ll give you that. I still think Thomas was BPA and I do remember a lot of people really wanted him, even more than Norris. But we can’t go back and change it. All I’m saying is it worked out, but I don’t really buy the narrative that Liljegren was BPA can’t miss prospect. 16 teams passed on him and a majority of those teams hit on players they took instead of him. At one point he was ranked #5 no? I’m glad he’s found his game now though
im not even speaking about points. It’s okay to admit Norris and Thomas are just flat out better than him. It’s not going to kill you to say that, Jesus lol. Those two are impact players on their respective rosters
zeke
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Thing is Timmy clearly could have played in the NHL last year, and probably the year prior, despite the fact that he struggled in his first 10gms.
He just happened to be on a team with both a deep and healthy blueline, and with a covid roster and cap crunch that just didn't give him an opportunity.
I know people want to think he suddenly improved this year but it's not true - he's been very good all along, and struggling in your first 10 nhl games is nothing out of the ordinary for any level of prospect.
He just happened to be on a team with both a deep and healthy blueline, and with a covid roster and cap crunch that just didn't give him an opportunity.
I know people want to think he suddenly improved this year but it's not true - he's been very good all along, and struggling in your first 10 nhl games is nothing out of the ordinary for any level of prospect.
Rants Mulliniks
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You are free to believe whatever you like. That does not make it "fact" as you suggest. Other than to say they had impact earlier, which is to be expected of forwards.
Also as Zeke alludes to, when your competition is Tierney, Gambrell and Pinto versus Matthews, Tavares, Spezza etc. it also changes the conversation. I remember being raked over the coals for daring to suggest Sandin was likely equal or possibly better than Brannstrom. My reasoning was simply that he had outperformed him at every level at an earlier age. I don't think that's a ridiculous observation. Still, people would hit you with "yeah well look at Brannstrom's GP in the NHL"......which was as much as anything a function of being on a terrible team. There's lots of things that go into the "why" that don't always reflect the actual player ability.
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i have to agree and it always baffled me why he never got call ups during the Babcock era when the defense was so bad. In the end it was probably for the better
gladly, Liljegren is a good player but I don’t believe he’s going to be a top tier guy like those two or even some of the guys who went ahead of him. But as long as he’s strong defensively that’s all that’s needed really
ACC1224
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Didn't it have to do with his bonuses and the cap?
Looks like they developed him very well. He won't see the minors again.
not saying it in a bad way just confused, but even when Polak got injured a couple of times they didn’t even give him a sniff. It was weird I found at the time and Ya like I said it worked out for the better.
probably bonuses especially if Lou was here
did you see me mention any stats? I mentioned specifically, to me Norris and Thomas are better players, they are more impactful, I’d love to have them but I’m happy with Liljegren. That’s it.
Apex Predator
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yeah I think they wanted to slowly give him games last season but the blue line was healthy so they really couldn’t give him the chance.
Rants Mulliniks
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Not really sure why you mention stats as the only one presented was GP and it clearly alluded to another conversation? The very post you are quoting is discussing "impact" and pointing out to you that in some cases they are having more "impact" because they have an opportunity to do so simply based on being on a bottom feeder.
It's fine for you to "feel" you would prefer one over the other because you believe one is more "impactful" but others may not agree because they may apply context to the analysis.
This is literally no different than all the people debating Matthews versus other goal scorers and not wanting to acknowledge things like time on ice or usage.....all very key to making comparisons.
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stickty111
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A Keefe quote I like to come back too. It's perfectly accurate that it takes time for him to settle in.
"It remains to be seen at this level, but if you follow his progression at the AHL level, I see something similar happening here. It takes time for him to become comfortable and confident. At times he is unsure of himself, but then when it clicks as it did in the 2nd half of last season, he is a very reliable defensive player that is hard to play against because his gap control, and the way he shuts things down in the neutral zone and just his skill set. Once he gets the confidence to move with the puck and can make a play. I think he has adjusted to that quicker in this level I thought he might. He like Sandin and any young defenceman are still having times where it's a little inconsistent then you'd like because of the pressure the opposition puts on you, and it comes a little quicker. You can question yourself a little bit. It's why it's important to keep things in context with both of those 2 guys, and take things slowly, and pull back as we will do with Liljegren here tonight. I think he's just going to be an all round very good and very productive defenceman that can contribute in both special teams, and play against good players. Thats the track he was on in the American league. I have said it a lot but we forget he is only 20 years old. For a lot of cases, it would be a guy just coming into pro hockey, and just playing his 1st year in the American league. Instead, he's a guy who played in a game 7 in the Calder Cup and won it. Played in the top pairing last year and really thrived in that position all the way to the Conference finals. To me, he is ahead of the curve in a lot of ways, but he still is just 20, and Rasmus is 19.
"It remains to be seen at this level, but if you follow his progression at the AHL level, I see something similar happening here. It takes time for him to become comfortable and confident. At times he is unsure of himself, but then when it clicks as it did in the 2nd half of last season, he is a very reliable defensive player that is hard to play against because his gap control, and the way he shuts things down in the neutral zone and just his skill set. Once he gets the confidence to move with the puck and can make a play. I think he has adjusted to that quicker in this level I thought he might. He like Sandin and any young defenceman are still having times where it's a little inconsistent then you'd like because of the pressure the opposition puts on you, and it comes a little quicker. You can question yourself a little bit. It's why it's important to keep things in context with both of those 2 guys, and take things slowly, and pull back as we will do with Liljegren here tonight. I think he's just going to be an all round very good and very productive defenceman that can contribute in both special teams, and play against good players. Thats the track he was on in the American league. I have said it a lot but we forget he is only 20 years old. For a lot of cases, it would be a guy just coming into pro hockey, and just playing his 1st year in the American league. Instead, he's a guy who played in a game 7 in the Calder Cup and won it. Played in the top pairing last year and really thrived in that position all the way to the Conference finals. To me, he is ahead of the curve in a lot of ways, but he still is just 20, and Rasmus is 19.
zeke
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I remember when teams like Detroit had prospects that never lost any hype even when they were still 24 and in the AHL, like Nyquist and Smith.
stickty111
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Hayes just can't help himself. He actually had some praise for Lilly today, but then adds an unnecessary comment. He said something Leafs probably accepted he's only a 3rd pair guy, and Liljegren has learned to not chase his shadow around.
Seriously whats the need for that shadow comment?
Seriously whats the need for that shadow comment?
Maple Leaf
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it’s a honest take. And his opinion, not everyone has drool over Liljegren. And idk why you take it so personally, it has no affect on Liljegren whatsoever. That’s his job to talk about and share his opinion for 3 hours
LeafChief
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Sandin-Liljegren were built to play together. It's truly a beautiful thing to watch.
CantLoseWithMatthews
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the best part is when they get onto the ice with the top 6. It's so fun to watch the entire 5 man unit make plays together
Buds17
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The skill sets definitely mesh. The thing I wasn't certain of was the timing being now.
