Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2

[nobody]

I'm happy to see that the general public is slowly waking up to what myself and many other posters here have been preaching for years. Lilly is a stud, all he needed was confidence and some trust from the coaching staff to let him settle in and do his thing. I still think he has immense offensive potential that he showed glimpses of in the AHL which can really blow up given the actual high-quality players he's playing with on the big club vs the Marlies. If Keefe and the team give him some more security and a longer leash to jump up into plays/carry the puck up into plays, we have a legitimate 2 way D who can slot in the top 4 for us.

Sandin - Dermott --> Minute munching pair (take the zone starts between the other 2 pairs)
Rielly - Lilly --> Let Rielly go wild with less defensive responsibilities (O-zone starts heavy)
Muzzin - Brodie --> Shutdown pair (sheltered minutes but mostly D-zone starts)

I would probably target a mean RHD for near league minimum or very cheap for the #7 role and rotate Brodie up to the top pair if Dermott doesn't perform or someone gets hurt. I am not a fan of Justin Holl because he doesn't give us enough grit nor does he give us enough defensive stability for the cap he has and moving him probably covers the raises that will go towards Lilly/Sandin contracts that are up for renewal.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

A tender that saves everything to win a game 7? Sounds like there might be something wrong with the team if the only way to win is to get shutouts.

Our goalie is fine, many teams have won not having the best goalie in the world. Hell we do realize Matt Murray won 2 cups right? The dude Ottawa wants to buyout?

I do realize that, of course, but if you remember back with Murray's 1st Pittsburgh Cup, much like STL Cup with Binner, Murray was teams best player as noted by almost every analyst out there .. today looking back it looks like he had a HOT run and ,maybe, it was because league did not know him as a rook and there was no book on him .. but whatever da reason da guy was making 10 bellers to win playoff games every night and with no house league goals either

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I'm happy to see that the general public is slowly waking up to what myself and many other posters here have been preaching for years. Lilly is a stud, all he needed was confidence and some trust from the coaching staff to let him settle in and do his thing. I still think he has immense offensive potential that he showed glimpses of in the AHL which can really blow up given the actual high-quality players he's playing with on the big club vs the Marlies. If Keefe and the team give him some more security and a longer leash to jump up into plays/carry the puck up into plays, we have a legitimate 2 way D who can slot in the top 4 for us.

Sandin - Dermott --> Minute munching pair (take the zone starts between the other 2 pairs)
Rielly - Lilly --> Let Rielly go wild with less defensive responsibilities (O-zone starts heavy)
Muzzin - Brodie --> Shutdown pair (sheltered minutes but mostly D-zone starts)

I would probably target a mean RHD for near league minimum or very cheap for the #7 role and rotate Brodie up to the top pair if Dermott doesn't perform or someone gets hurt. I am not a fan of Justin Holl because he doesn't give us enough grit nor does he give us enough defensive stability for the cap he has and moving him probably covers the raises that will go towards Lilly/Sandin contracts that are up for renewal.

I like this setup too .. Lily, outside his 1 glaring error which happens to all rooks, was outstanding last night covering up for Sandin .. and Holl OMG he is just flat out terrible by far our worst defense .. terrible reads, bad puck give aways, bad positioning, weak cover up speed etc .. there is no way Muzzy can continue to cover him up .. but Soup did last night on at least 6 occasions where Flyers should have scored

 

[nobody]

I like this setup too .. Lily, outside his 1 glaring error which happens to all rooks, was outstanding last night covering up for Sandin .. and Holl OMG he is just flat out terrible by far our worst defense .. terrible reads, bad puck give aways, bad positioning, weak cover up speed etc .. there is no way Muzzy can continue to cover him up .. but Soup did last night on at least 6 occasions where Flyers should have scored

The tough part is that Muzz has spent 2 years giving stability to Holl and that has allowed Holl to play his style of game which is very "okayish" defense with some puck-moving and rushes. This year however it looks like Muzzin has taken a step back himself and that has massively exposed Holl who unfortunately hasn't been able to carry forward his old game. I think part of it might also have to do with the fact that the defense this year really looks like they're being encouraged to join the play and that's led to so many odd-man rushes going the other way. That's something our team has done so well on over the past 4-5 seasons but just in the short sample size of games this year, I've already noticed more odd-man rushes against us than I have seen in entire seasons previously.

I think Holl with a very steady partner who isn't as aggressive can be a good defenceman. Perhaps a guy like Brodie would allow him to play his game again but unfortunately Brodie is also a RD and we don't have any lefties to offer Holl who can compliment/steady his game.

Pairing Muzzin and Brodie is a good fit in my eyes because Brodie is used to carrying his d-partner on the defensive end and Muzzin isn't a huge liability to get caught up ice and that pair can be utilized as a legitimate shutdown pairing for us.

Sandin - Dermott has looked good and Sandin - Lilly has looked great (albeit sheltered in both pairings cases). The only real hole we have is next to Mo. It would be nice to have a true stay at home d-man lineup with him but that's someone we don't really have at the moment outside of Brodie (who is already babysitting Muzz) and Lilly (who is still too inexperienced to be thrown to the wolves, YET).

Rielly - Stralman/Chiarot
Muzzin - Brodie
Sandin - Lilly
Dermott

XXX - current option is Dermott by default. However, I would love to see us swing a trade for a guy like Anton Stralman or a Ben Chiarot who can play a stay-at-home role. Both are UFAs and would need extensive salary retention and even perhaps the involvement of a 3rd team in a trade scenario. But I think it would definitely help solidify the d-core.

 

[Clyde Brewer]

There hasn't been much chatter in this thread, but I think this bump is worth it.

Liljegren has looked like a solid NHL defenseman and I've been enjoying watching him become more comfortable on the ice.

I feel he's been getting a few more offensive zone starts and I think his first goal is just around the corner.

 

[Apex Predator]

This is what the leafs needed especially since they are so close to the cap. A cheap ELC that can play. Hopefully over the next few seasons we start to see more trickle in.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

He's a stud. Top 4 defenseman in his prime for sure.

 

[kb]

There hasn't been much chatter in this thread, but I think this bump is worth it.

Liljegren has looked like a solid NHL defenseman and I've been enjoying watching him become more comfortable on the ice.

I feel he's been getting a few more offensive zone starts and I think his first goal is just around the corner.

Agreed kind sir.....

He has his supporters, his detractors, and then his merry brand of brain dead morons who think he is nothing.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

nice to see Sandin and Liljegren bounce back from a poor performance with another dominant night. You have to give young players a chance to prove that they can learn from making mistakes, or they're never going to get better. Liljegren in particular was awesome

 

[Holls Blackmail]

Kid has such a high compete. I always come away impressed with his effort. Even when he make a mistake, he kicks it up a gear to try to recover.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I can't wait to see him use his shot more too as he gains confidence. He's got a good one.

 

[kb]

Why do the Leafs play inferior players over him?

Asking for a friend

 

[Sundinisagod]

Love what I’m seeing in Timothy.

I’m pretty sure it’s already been said, he could develop into a TJ Brodie type player, strong skating 2 way defender.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Why do the Leafs play inferior players over him?

Asking for a friend

because holl is this coach's maricin.

 

[stickty111]

nice to see Sandin and Liljegren bounce back from a poor performance with another dominant night. You have to give young players a chance to prove that they can learn from making mistakes, or they're never going to get better. Liljegren in particular was awesome

Both have had maybe only 2 games. I was calling for Keefe to sit Sandin today but glad he didn't. Both had great games today after struggling yesterday. Keefe won't say it obviously but it's clear he has Liljegren and Sandin ahead of Dermott.

 

[stickty111]

because holl is this coach's maricin.

I'm still going to say Holl is an NHL d man, and at his best, I like him more then Dermott. However, his spot shouldn't be permanent in the lineup. I think the fact it might be is the problem.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I'm still going to say Holl is an NHL d man, and at his best, I like him more then Dermott. However, his spot shouldn't be permanent in the lineup. I think the fact it might be is the problem.

I am not doubting he is a NHL D...my problem is he isn't the most consistent one and I rather give that time to Dermott and the other two to either develop or soak it in to get better. Injuries can very easily change the dynamic of our D core so its good to have him or a sub ready....just have him as a sub is all i ask for.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I am not doubting he is a NHL D...my problem is he isn't the most consistent one and I rather give that time to Dermott and the other two to either develop or soak it in to get better. Injuries can very easily change the dynamic of our D core so its good to have him or a sub ready....just have him as a sub is all i ask for.

This is what should happen based purely on hockey skills and development but Dubie has a hard on for Holl so until Dubie is replaced and a hockey guy comes in it will continue on .. but Leafs executive will only get there with either a playoff miss or another 1st round defeat .. I am 50/50 on whether Leafs can accumulate enough points to make playoffs as hockey changes after XMAS and Leafs stay at same level they are today when time and space on ice is reduced

 

[zeke]

Muzzin-Holl has been excellent since Holl came back in, while Dermott flopped hugetime paired with Rielly.

Dermott is the obvious choice to sit at the moment.

 

[ACC1224]

I am not doubting he is a NHL D...my problem is he isn't the most consistent one and I rather give that time to Dermott and the other two to either develop or soak it in to get better. Injuries can very easily change the dynamic of our D core so its good to have him or a sub ready....just have him as a sub is all i ask for.

Pretty obvious Holl is the worst defenseman on the roster. Have to have faith he'll be removed at some point.

 

[VanW27]

Muzzin-Holl has been excellent since Holl came back in, while Dermott flopped hugetime paired with Rielly.

Dermott is the obvious choice to sit at the moment.

While their play as a whole has been pretty good recently, they are both making multiple horrible bonehead turnovers a game, every game.

Ie. Scoring chances, and HDSC for and against for them look good, but not all chances are equal. Way too many of their chances against are extremely high quality and directly off of turnovers or bad reads.

 

[zeke]

While their play as a whole has been pretty good recently, they are both making multiple horrible bonehead turnovers a game, every game.

Ie. Scoring chances, and HDSC for and against for them look good, but not all chances are equal. Way too many of their chances against are extremely high quality and directly off of turnovers or bad reads.

Top tough usage matchup pairing on the 3rd ranked defense in hockey is probably doing something right.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Pretty obvious Holl is the worst defenseman on the roster. Have to have faith he'll be removed at some point.

I don't think so he is Dubie's boy .. he has some value as a 7th dman in league .. nowhere near 2M per but he has value as a guy who can come in when injuries occur

 

[Twine Tickler]

The best part in all of this is that Timmy is playing so lights out, but his point totals have been low. Should make for a much easier negotiation in the offseason. Same with Sandin to an extent. Both players are playing outstanding, but not to a point where I worry how they will fit into our cap after this year.

Truly an ideal outcome thus far.

I think with respect to Timmy, we are looking at our future top pairing RD. He is just so smart, and his ability to play within his skillset is so impressive for his age. He gets caught here and there, but no where near as many times as defensemen his age usually do. He already plays a tidier game than Dermott who has more NHL games than Timmy has pro games.

I absolutely love watching him play. He makes the game look easy IMO. This was the most predictable prospect we had for so many years just because of the way he plays the game. High skill, low event Defenseman. It still blows my mind how some doubted him prior to this year. He's been this good for a while IMO.

Happy to see he is getting his shot. He is so deserving of it.

 

[VanW27]

Top tough usage matchup pairing on the 3rd ranked defense in hockey is probably doing something right.

1. I said they've been generally good since Holl has been back in the lineup, save for the horrendous turnovers
2. Muzzin has been on the ice for 19 of the 34 EVGA for the Leafs this year, while playing 364 ES minutes out of 986 total ES minutes for the team.

• 56% of all ES goal against have been scored while Muzzin is on the ice, while playing 37% of the minutes.

We are the 3rd best defensive team in the league in spite of how poorly our "top tough usage" matchup pair has performed. 1st and 3rd pair have been terrific.