Time to Hire Barry Trotz

[saffronleaf]

they don't call him chief for nothing

 

[yubbers]

Aren't we all looking forward to reliving 2008 when the board cleans house and asks 90+ Cliff Fletcher to come in as interim GM again?

We've spent 6 years watching a rookie GM learn on the job and squander a couple of generational talents.

He'll go down as far worse than Fletcher. Fletcher didn't throw away a golden goose.

People get too fixated on name recognition for coaching rather than fit. The vast majority of fans were excited when Babs was signed - probably the most famous coach in hockey at the time - and ended up like oil and water when working with a most rookie team.

The current core of the team doesn't strike me as one that would work well with Trotz. Especially if the longer term goal would be to re-sign Matthews.

That's on Shanny. Imagine running an organization...... committing to a proven, OG coach......then hiring a woke rookie GM that thinks he's reinvented how to make a hockey team and expecting Babs to listen to him.

That relationship had ZERO chance of woring. Don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that. They nuked their own plan.

 

[Menzinger]

I don’t think Trotz would work with the GM either. Different philosophies. The team would need a new GM first.
I think this is full speed ahead year with Dubas and Keefe. They either stay on course or go off the rails.

Yep it absolutely has to stem from the GM down.

This season is going to tell us ultimately if Dubas' vision for the team is succeeding, then it's up to him, if yes, to determine if Keefe can be upgraded or not. If no, then the next GM needs to choose their coach to match their vision. I think we'd end up at a cycle of dysfunction, replacing one part but not the other consistently.

 

[daethfromabove1979]

Keefe is a bad coach. Losing to inferior playoff teams like Columbus and Montreal was inexcusable. Can't wait for him and Dubas to be gone.

 

[tmlms13]

I was born and raised in Manitoba. Winnipeg. Brandon.

A lot of people in Manitoba hate Toronto. Some wouldn't come here if their lives depended on it.

Maybe that's due in part to smug, smarmy Southern Ontarians who think that the GTA is the centre of the universe, and that of course everyone else wants nothing better than to be here.

That's no different than any other country with their big cities. Ask people in Wyoming what they think of LA or New York.

 

[DarkKnight]

Barry Trotz just took a team from ECF to a non-playoff team, not looking for a step back in coaching.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think it fair comment to wonder if a Trotz is a good fit for this squad as constructed. Maybe that’s saying something though too.

 

[Torontonian]

People complain about the offence now not scoring, wait till Trotz gets his hands on this team, then your going to have players that can't play how Trotz would want to play in his system.

The problem isn't Keefe system, the problem is the mental lapse in this team and the willingness to win from the team. Trotz cannot fix the fundamental problem plaguing the Leafs, its not X's and O's why Toronto is losing.

 

[notbias]

View attachment 595706

NYI season last year? Swing and a miss?

I think it fair comment to wonder if a Trotz is a good fit for this squad as constructed. Maybe that’s saying something though too.

Not sure he is a good fit for Colorado either... so probably is saying something.

 

[JTK1967]

People complain about the offence now not scoring, wait till Trotz gets his hands on this team, then your going to have players that can't play how Trotz would want to play in his system.

The problem isn't Keefe system, the problem is the mental lapse in this team and the willingness to win from the team. Trotz cannot fix the fundamental problem plaguing the Leafs, its not X's and O's why Toronto is losing.

I guess Ovi was a 30 goal guy for all those years.

Year they won the cup, Ovi had 49g, and Ovi Backstrom and Kuzy all had over 70 points. Carlson had 68.

3 of 4 years Ovi had over 50g.
2 of 4 years someone in the top 5 in scoring league wide.
3 of 4 years someone in top 10 (other year, 11th overall)

7th, 2nd, 3rd, 9th. His four years in Washington, where his teams places in GPG. (5th avg)

My point here is that when he had a team with good offensive players, he coached them in the best way to win. They played smart, hard defence and supported their D and G to help compensate for having an avg D core.

If we move from Keefe, he is my #1 by far.

 

[BallardEra]

People complain about the offence now not scoring, wait till Trotz gets his hands on this team, then your going to have players that can't play how Trotz would want to play in his system.

The problem isn't Keefe system, the problem is the mental lapse in this team and the willingness to win from the team. Trotz cannot fix the fundamental problem plaguing the Leafs, its not X's and O's why Toronto is losing.

Trotz and the Caps were always at the top of the league in goals scored.

Isles never had that same skill so Trotz utilized what he had to work with.

EDIT: Looks like JTK1967 beat me to it.

 

[Torontonian]

Trotz and the Caps were always at the top of the league in goals scored.

Isles never had that same skill so Trotz utilized what he had to work with.

EDIT: Looks like JTK1967 beat me to it.

I guess so, I just don't think at the end of the day, its coaching the plagues the Leafs. I truly think it's mental and the willingness to win and do what it takes to win in the playoffs, block shots, hit, fight for every single bit of ice etc.

Maybe that changes though, Matthews is starting to play the body more so maybe he's getting the message.

 

[BallardEra]

I guess so, I just don't think at the end of the day, its coaching the plagues the Leafs. I truly think it's mental and the willingness to win and do what it takes to win in the playoffs, block shots, hit, fight for every single bit of ice etc.

Maybe that changes though, Matthews is starting to play the body more so maybe he's getting the message.

I don't see Keefe as the coach that will take them all the way. I'm not saying that Trotz is the answer either.

Keefe reminds me of Boudreau era Caps where I knew they needed someone else to take them all the way.

 

[LeafEgo]

Babbers couldn't work as a result of the dysfunctional relationship with the GM. The 'losing the team' was a byproduct of that. Babbers might have been just fine and likely would not have lost to both Columbus and Montreal.

This team may or may not be a good fit for Trotz, but that doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't be an upgrade, now and in the long run. The real question is if he could work with the boy king.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I think Keefe is a good coach, but even the fans are starting to ignore his message. I imagine the players have begun to tune him out completely.

Look at what a culture change has done for Philly so far!

 

[TheShape]

I guess so, I just don't think at the end of the day, its coaching the plagues the Leafs. I truly think it's mental and the willingness to win and do what it takes to win in the playoffs, block shots, hit, fight for every single bit of ice etc.

Maybe that changes though, Matthews is starting to play the body more so maybe he's getting the message.

I don’t think it’s so much about the Xs and Os when it comes to coaching more so this group needing a different voice.

Who knows what happens with Matthews in the next two seasons so a proven winner in Trotz could be the answer in the short term. I don’t think Keefe is a bad coach, but it’s clear he’s not the answer for this group, we know what we have there.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Guys, Sheldon is a HoF coach within the next 15 years. You will see that play out in Toronto.

Jeesh

 

[ShaneFalco]

I can't see Dube wanting to work with Trotz. Seems like a I need my guy type GM

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't think Jesus could make da Leafs play through a trap .. it is a personnel issue mainly .. I don't care who coaches .. Leafs can succeed against teams like Tampa who will trade chances with them .. kids just don't have skills to break a trap game/team .. and they never did even as rooks

 

[saltming]

I don't think Jesus could make da Leafs play through a trap .. it is a personnel issue mainly .. I don't care who coaches .. Leafs can succeed against teams like Tampa who will trade chances with them .. kids just don't have skills to break a trap game/team .. and they never did even as rooks

It's not the kids but the system. They try to keep possession hrough the neutral zone and enter the offensive zone with the puck. That is hard to do with the trap.
When facing the trap you dump and chase, I know you know this, so are you saying the players can't skate fast enough to retrieve the puck?
Imo they aren't being coached on this so when they face a trap they continue to play their game, this I my issue with Keefe, not able to adapt especially in game.
The dump and chase is not as simple as it sounds and the team should practice the timing and nuances to add to their toolbox. That's on coaching

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It's not the kids but the system. They try to keep possession hrough the neutral zone and enter the offensive zone with the puck. That is hard to do with the trap.
When facing the trap you dump and chase, I know you know this, so are you saying the players can't skate fast enough to retrieve the puck?
Imo they aren't being coached on this so when they face a trap they continue to play their game, this I my issue with Keefe, not able to adapt especially in game.
The dump and chase is not as simple as it sounds and the team should practice the timing and nuances to add to their toolbox. That's on coaching

Understood .. da issue i think is puck retrieval on da dump and chase .. it is some combo of speed and strength.. sure Willy can get in there faster than virtually anyone .. but does he want to? and if he does can he physically impose himself to steal a puck? .. malgin mitch etc .. yes da 4th line can do it for sure .. but 3rd line could not do it against Coyotes when they tried on Monday night in 2nd period (keefer actually tried it on da 3rd and 4th lines) .. and 4th line did have some success but all that happened was possession and little else .. so Keefer tried dump and chase on 3rd and 4th lines but not on lines 1 and 2 .. even start of 3rd nothing really changed .. he must have been fuming on bench but it took Willy about 8 minutes into 3rd before he just started taking puck on his own and using his speed and stickhandling to beat trap on his own .. clearly he could do it on his own (and i know he was very sick as you could see on da bench) but it was only in desperation where he put in effort to and then he only had a 20 second speed burst and had to end his shift early .. and Kerfoot managed to do same thing on game tying goal where he went in (after Keefer changed da 1st line to start 3rd period) like a kamakazee on forecheck and Yotes could not handle da press and puck popped out to Mitch in front of net .. a team which grinds out a game this way like trotz teams does it 3 periods straight .. these core guys do not have da game, except Willy, to beat a trap

 

[TorMapleJays]

Sounds like games 4 through 7

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Maybe he's a sucker for abuse?

Stevie Yzerman, nor Sam Polock in his prime; nor Barry Trotz, nor a youtthful Scotty Bowman, could coach or manage this team with incurring the wrath if its' faithful followers. Is it the same everywhere?

You would have to consider the possibility if that Trotz still wanted to coach, he pick a destination that was less toxic and still make good money.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Trotz is Canadian. A Manitoba native. Who wouldn't want to coach in the biggest market in the world? He turned down WPG and is able to sit and wait for his pick of the litter.

I don't know Trotz. Neither do you. Go ask him.

It's possible he can make good money elsewhere without dealing with such a toxic environment. That's one reason. Maybe he likes the position or make up of another team better. Who knows.

Your assumptive statement (see bolded above) is just an assumption and assumes that everyone is wired and thinks in the same way. Its hardly as logic-tight as you portray it to be.

 

[saltming]

Understood .. da issue i think is puck retrieval on da dump and chase .. it is some combo of speed and strength.. sure Willy can get in there faster than virtually anyone .. but does he want to? and if he does can he physically impose himself to steal a puck? .. malgin mitch etc .. yes da 4th line can do it for sure .. but 3rd line could not do it against Coyotes when they tried on Monday night in 2nd period (keefer actually tried it on da 3rd and 4th lines) .. and 4th line did have some success but all that happened was possession and little else .. so Keefer tried dump and chase on 3rd and 4th lines but not on lines 1 and 2 .. even start of 3rd nothing really changed .. he must have been fuming on bench but it took Willy about 8 minutes into 3rd before he just started taking puck on his own and using his speed and stickhandling to beat trap on his own .. clearly he could do it on his own (and i know he was very sick as you could see on da bench) but it was only in desperation where he put in effort to and then he only had a 20 second speed burst and had to end his shift early .. and Kerfoot managed to do same thing on game tying goal where he went in (after Keefer changed da 1st line to start 3rd period) like a kamakazee on forecheck and Yotes could not handle da press and puck popped out to Mitch in front of net .. a team which grinds out a game this way like trotz teams does it 3 periods straight .. these core guys do not have da game, except Willy, to beat a trap

I think Nylander gets the short end of the stick when posters talk about his lack of physicality. I agree he avoids taking punishment but a lot of star players do to some extent. That said I think his puck retrieval skill are amazing. He's very skilled and strong along the boards.
Matthews is also rediculous Ly good at retrieving the puck along the boards, bunting too.
1st line Matthews and bunting
2nd line Nylander and tavares
3rd line Kerfoot and jarnkrok
4th line all 3
Imo these are all really good players at retrieving the puck so why is it that, as you stated, onky the 4th look ne was doing it well?
I could be wrong but I'm thinking that's on coaching. Either they are telling line 1 & 2 to continue the possession game or they haven't invested enough time with those lines in practicing dump and chase.
All I know is that the coach should be reading the game and noticing from the end of the first period when something isn't working and should not do the same thing and expect a different outcome, he should make adjustments, when he seldom does.
Hmm I might have to start calling him seldom Keefe