Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

[ACC1224]

2.1 Mil for 3 years. Add to that there is no guarantee that the cap is dramatically increasing, as I understand the CBA the cap is tied to revenue, it's just not automatically increasing.

I'm not saying you 100% don't do it because of that but I would be offering less if I was Burke.

Luongo's contract reminds me of Future value financing on a car, which is almost criminal IMO.

I think the bigger worry is he doesn't retire and at some point needs to be bought out to be rid of.

 

[Rockinz]

The Nucks will be forced to buy him out next year because they will be up against the cap....

Lets just be patient, see what we have with Reimer and Scrivens this year and if its not good enough sign Lu as a FA to a deal that works for us... No assets lost and no jeopardizing the franchise with dead cap money.

 

[CerebralDevil]

I dont get the Luongo hate and the talk of not trading for him cause of his contract. If we want to see the Leafs move in the playoffs we need a legit #1 Goalie and Lu fits the bill. After reading the new CBA agreement if Van trades Lu to Tor and he retires 3-4 years after and 6 years before his contract is up it penalizes Vancouver's cap and the monies owed that are left over go against them. The Nucks are against the wall here with $9 million paid to Lu and Schneider in goalies and need to lower the cap for next year in a big way. Burke will pull off a trade and get a #1 goalie in Luongo and give Van a center like Connolley who has 1 year left and fills the void of Kesler who is injured and unknown when he will return, and a defense man Franson who will fill Edler's spot who will be gone next year due to UFA. Possibly sending them a back-up goalie which could be Scrivens, and maybe a 3rd rounder.

 

[Liferleafer]

I dont get the Luongo hate and the talk of not trading for him cause of his contract. If we want to see the Leafs move in the playoffs we need a legit #1 Goalie and Lu fits the bill. After reading the new CBA agreement if Van trades Lu to Tor and he retires 3-4 years after and 6 years before his contract is up it penalizes Vancouver's cap and the monies owed that are left over go against them. The Nucks are against the wall here with $9 million paid to Lu and Schneider in goalies and need to lower the cap for next year in a big way. Burke will pull off a trade and get a #1 goalie in Luongo and give Van a center like Connolley who has 1 year left and fills the void of Kesler who is injured and unknown when he will return, and a defense man Franson who will fill Edler's spot who will be gone next year due to UFA. Possibly sending them a back-up goalie which could be Scrivens, and maybe a 3rd rounder.

It has come out that both teams (Van and whoever aquires him) will pay cap penalties. So if we bring him in, when he retires we will also carry a portion of his cap for the term of his contract.

 

[mix1home]

Few points.

1. I thought that wording of CBA is that cap penalty would be applied to _original_ team that signed contract with the player even if player was traded. I can see Carter and Richards sticking it to Phili already after treatment they got. ha-ha.

2. Lou at 5.3M is not bad deal assuming (1).

3. I think I overheard this morning on sportsnet that deal Lou to Toronto is done deal, they waiting to announce it on Saturday after CBA is ratified. Please confirm if you heard it too.

 

[Liferleafer]

Few points.

1. I thought that wording of CBA is that cap penalty would be applied to _original_ team that signed contract with the player even if player was traded. I can see Carter and Richard sticking it to Phili already after treatment they got. ha-ha.

2. Lou at 5.3M is not bad deal assuming (1).

3. I think I overheard this morning on sportsnet that deal Lou to Toronto is done deal, they waiting to announce it on Saturday after CBA is ratified. Please confirm if you heard it too.

Depends on who you listen to. John Shannon says yes. Roger Lagois (sp?) says no.

 

[middletoe]

I just voted Luongo.

I think he's gonna love it in Toronto and his best is yet to come. And does Allaire come back? He's got to be involved somehow I think.

This is Toronto's year. And I mean it this time.

 

[CerebralDevil]

It has come out that both teams (Van and whoever aquires him) will pay cap penalties. So if we bring him in, when he retires we will also carry a portion of his cap for the term of his contract.

More of a hit to Van than to Tor I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Van would have to pay like $6 million + in cap and Tor something like $2million+

 

[Al14]

I dont get the Luongo hate and the talk of not trading for him cause of his contract. If we want to see the Leafs move in the playoffs we need a legit #1 Goalie and Lu fits the bill. After reading the new CBA agreement if Van trades Lu to Tor and he retires 3-4 years after and 6 years before his contract is up it penalizes Vancouver's cap and the monies owed that are left over go against them. The Nucks are against the wall here with $9 million paid to Lu and Schneider in goalies and need to lower the cap for next year in a big way. Burke will pull off a trade and get a #1 goalie in Luongo and give Van a center like Connolley who has 1 year left and fills the void of Kesler who is injured and unknown when he will return, and a defense man Franson who will fill Edler's spot who will be gone next year due to UFA. Possibly sending them a back-up goalie which could be Scrivens, and maybe a 3rd rounder.

Luongo couldn't get a STACKED team like Vancouver a Stanley Cup. What makes you think he'll be able to survive here with Toronto being a much poorer team talent wise?

 

[iArts]

I just voted Luongo.

I think he's gonna love it in Toronto and his best is yet to come. And does Allaire come back? He's got to be involved somehow I think.

Allaire is gone, and I hope he never comes back. What has he accomplished here with our goalies? Nothing but failures.

 

[CerebralDevil]

Luongo couldn't get a STACKED team like Vancouver a Stanley Cup. What makes you think he'll be able to survive here with Toronto being a much poorer team talent wise?

Um Vancouver didnt score like they did in the regular season either, where were the Sedins and others during the playoffs. Cant blame it on Luongo, its a team sport and there is only so much a goalie can do when your team isnt producing up front.

 

[SprDaVE]

Luongo couldn't get a STACKED team like Vancouver a Stanley Cup. What makes you think he'll be able to survive here with Toronto being a much poorer team talent wise?

Not sure if you were sarcastic... but I'll bite. It's a team game.

Vancouver was a win away from the Stanley Cup 2 years ago. They were completely dominated last year and Luongo was great for the most part.

I'm not for Luongo or against him, but to say he couldn't win Vancouver a Stanley Cup is like saying you wouldn't want Lundqvist because he didn't win a cup for the Rangers.

 

[4evaBlue]

2m penalty 7 years from now, that's stopping some of you guys not wanting a elite goalie.

Come on guys, you have reimer and scrivens in net, this is a huge opportunity.

How long do you think Luongo will stay "on top of his game" (that includes choking in the playoffs)? 10 years? 5? 2?

 

[CerebralDevil]

Not sure if you were sarcastic... but I'll bite. It's a team game.

Vancouver was a win away from the Stanley Cup 2 years ago. They were completely dominated last year and Luongo was great for the most part.

I'm not for Luongo or against him, but to say he couldn't win Vancouver a Stanley Cup is like saying you wouldn't want Lundqvist because he didn't win a cup for the Rangers.

exactly thanx

 

[SprDaVE]

Allaire is gone, and I hope he never comes back. What has he accomplished here with our goalies? Nothing but failures.

Corey Hirsch was the goaltender coach before him and he got flack as well.

Want to guess where is he now? St-Louis Blues. Want to guess how they did with him as a goaltender coach?

Maybe, just maybe, it was the talent given to him?

No, it couldn't be!

Only in Toronto would they blame a goaltender coach. Unreal. Somehow, I don't think Allaire taught Gustavsson to let in a goal that was going wide in the first place, or let in a bunch of goals from bad angles.

 

[topched]

Corey Hirsch was the goaltender coach before him and he got flack as well.

Want to guess where is he now? St-Louis Blues. Want to guess how they did with him as a goaltender coach?

Maybe, just maybe, it was the talent given to him?

No, it couldn't be!

Only in Toronto would they blame a goaltender coach. Unreal.

IMO he had nothing to do with the teams dreadful GAA.

It has to do with a regression in both Reimer and Gustavsson's games, no marked improvement over multiple seasons of work. Also a percieved unwillingness to listen to the coaching staff, in particular Ron Wilson who was his superior.

Combination of things really. Certainly not his fault he had *****y goalies to coach, but the fact that he didn't improve their games at all was a good indicator that the firing (or non-renewal of contract) was warranted.

 

[SprDaVE]

IMO he had nothing to do with the teams dreadful GAA.

It has to do with a regression in both Reimer and Gustavsson's games, no marked improvement over multiple seasons of work. Also a percieved unwillingness to listen to the coaching staff, in particular Ron Wilson who was his superior.

Combination of things really. Certainly not his fault he had *****y goalies to coach, but the fact that he didn't improve their games at all was a good indicator that the firing (or non-renewal of contract) was warranted.

So if Reimer or Gustavsson don't play well under new coaches, are we still blaming Allaire for their lack of progression, the new goaltender coaches on 2 seperate teams... or the actual players? Are did the Goaltending Satan himself ruin them for life?

I guess he's to blame a bit but certainly shouldn't be outed as the scape goat for our lack of goaltending. With that said, Allaire has an outstanding coaching record with goaltenders.

 

[colchar]

Bernier anyone? would probably be more costly but at least we don't have to worry about a goalie for the next decade

He has less NHL experience than Riemer.

 

[Al14]

Um Vancouver didnt score like they did in the regular season either, where were the Sedins and others during the playoffs. Cant blame it on Luongo, its a team sport and there is only so much a goalie can do when your team isnt producing up front.

So, our Leafs, with their lack of talent, will be better than Vancouver in the regular season and then in the playoffs? That's a bet I'm not willing to make. Luongo folds like a cheap tent with our poor defensive play, unless Carlyle can turn that around. But then, if we improve defensively, our offense will likely drop off in turn.

I just don't agree with Luongo being able to make the Leafs into a contender at this point and his contract is as bad as a giant nose booger.

If Burke does acquire Lu, we'll all get to see which camp was right. I would like to be proved wrong, because, that means our Leafs will win it all, or, at least make into the playoffs!

 

[ACC1224]

Corey Hirsch was the goaltender coach before him and he got flack as well.

Want to guess where is he now? St-Louis Blues. Want to guess how they did with him as a goaltender coach?

Maybe, just maybe, it was the talent given to him?

No, it couldn't be!

Only in Toronto would they blame a goaltender coach. Unreal. Somehow, I don't think Allaire taught Gustavsson to let in a goal that was going wide in the first place, or let in a bunch of goals from bad angles.

Wasn't the problem with Allaire that he wouldn't work with the other Coaches?

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

I'm all for Lu, just not this season. Let the Canucks sweat it out when they have to drop salary to fit under the lowered cap next season and let Reimer/Scrivens post .89/.90 SV%s leading us to a top 3 pick.

Then, once we get our future star, pick up Lu on the cheap (asset standpoint) and make a splash for a legit forward if the UFA market is anywhere near the monstrous pool of talent it currently stands to project to and we can be set for the playoffs next season, IMO.

 

[topched]

So, our Leafs, with their lack of talent, will be better than Vancouver in the regular season and then in the playoffs? That's a bet I'm not willing to make. Luongo folds like a cheap tent with our poor defensive play, unless Carlyle can turn that around. But then, if we improve defensively, our offense will likely drop off in turn.

I just don't agree with Luongo being able to make the Leafs into a contender at this point and his contract is as bad as a giant nose booger.

If Burke does acquire Lu, we'll all get to see which camp was right. I would like to be proved wrong, because, that means our Leafs will win it all, or, at least make into the playoffs!

Did you know that there was a time when Luongo played for a bottom feeder Florida Panthers team... with far less talent than the roster we have now?

Did you also know that he put up some damn good numbers and was nominated for a Vezina in a season where his team didn't make the playoffs?

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm all for Lu, just not this season. Let the Canucks sweat it out when they have to drop salary to fit under the lowered cap next season and let Reimer/Scrivens post .89/.90 SV%s leading us to a top 3 pick.

Then, once we get our future star, pick up Lu on the cheap (asset standpoint) and make a splash for a legit forward if the UFA market is anywhere near the monstrous pool of talent it currently stands to project to and we can be set for the playoffs next season, IMO.

It basically writes itself!

 

[middletoe]

Wasn't the problem with Allaire that he wouldn't work with the other Coaches?

Maybe, but if Luongo is a better goalie with Allaire, then somehow you make it happen. And he is working with him right now.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

It basically writes itself!

Fate, bro, fate.