Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

[colchar]

I want Luongo. But I also don't want Burke to make a foolish move out of desperation.

If Luongo was a UFA right now, and he cost nothing but money, I wouldn't give him the contract he has now. Nobody would. So giving up anything of value for him is crazy.

If the Canucks can't find any trade partners, they'll probably just buy him out.

So if I'm Burke I either wait for Vancouver to buy him out or make them sweeten the pot. No way I'm doing them any favours by taking that albatross of their hands.

They will not buy him out, not with that contract. MacLean was saying on Hockey Central last night that all of the people, especially in the media, who keep throwing around the idea of buying him out have no idea what they are talking about because GMs do not go to owners and ask them to throw away that kind of money. He said there is no way in hell that Luongo gets bought out.

 

[topched]

I'm all for Lu, just not this season. Let the Canucks sweat it out when they have to drop salary to fit under the lowered cap next season and let Reimer/Scrivens post .89/.90 SV%s leading us to a top 3 pick.

Then, once we get our future star, pick up Lu on the cheap (asset standpoint) and make a splash for a legit forward if the UFA market is anywhere near the monstrous pool of talent it currently stands to project to and we can be set for the playoffs next season, IMO.

Would be interesting to see a list of big name, high priced free agents who have signed with a bottom 3 team in the cap era.

My guess is its extremely short. Good players don't sign with losers. This team needs to win to attract FA's... plain and simple.

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe, but if Luongo is a better goalie with Allaire, then somehow you make it happen. And he is working with him right now.

I thought(but could be mistaken) that the bridge was burnt as far as Allaire goes.

 

[colchar]

I dont get the Luongo hate and the talk of not trading for him cause of his contract. If we want to see the Leafs move in the playoffs we need a legit #1 Goalie and Lu fits the bill. After reading the new CBA agreement if Van trades Lu to Tor and he retires 3-4 years after and 6 years before his contract is up it penalizes Vancouver's cap and the monies owed that are left over go against them.

This is not true as both teams would be penalized. Read through the thread as the info has been posted here.

 

[ACC1224]

They will not buy him out, not with that contract. MacLean was saying on Hockey Central last night that all of the people, especially in the media, who keep throwing around the idea of buying him out have no idea what they are talking about because GMs do not go to owners and ask them to throw away that kind of money. He said there is no way in hell that Luongo gets bought out.

I agree with this, I don't see him being bought out.

 

[colchar]

3. I think I overheard this morning on sportsnet that deal Lou to Toronto is done deal, they waiting to announce it on Saturday after CBA is ratified.

That is old news as they have been saying that for months.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Would be interesting to see a list of big name, high priced free agents who have signed with a bottom 3 team in the cap era.

My guess is its extremely short. Good players don't sign with losers. This team needs to win to attract FA's... plain and simple.

Is it unfathomable?

EDIT: One name-- Olli Jokinen baby.


My guess-- you won't get the sarcasm of the posts.

 

[CerebralDevil]

This is not true as both teams would be penalized. Read through the thread as the info has been posted here.

YA I read and it penalizes both. I posted my mistake thanx, still worth it though

 

[Leaf Army]

They will not buy him out, not with that contract. MacLean was saying on Hockey Central last night that all of the people, especially in the media, who keep throwing around the idea of buying him out have no idea what they are talking about because GMs do not go to owners and ask them to throw away that kind of money. He said there is no way in hell that Luongo gets bought out.

Well then Gillis certainly doesn't have much leverage for a trade then does he?

I said make Vancouver sweeten the pot or let them buy him out. If they can't buy him out then they need to sweeten the pot.

Leafs cannot give up value if they make this trade.

 

[Deebo]

Burke is not going to go after Luongo, unless he changed his mind over the off-season.

If Burke wanted an elite goaltender than he could have had Vokoun for a lot less than what Luongo would cost him.

Benefits of Vokoun over Luongo:

-Vokoun(36) is 3 years older than Luongo(33), which would give Reimer adequate time as a back-up learning from an elite goaltender, while still having a starting role at an age where or prospect will be in their prime.
- Vokoun only costed a 2nd round draft pick.
- Vokoun actually wanted to come to Toronto.
- Vokoun SV% .917 to Luongo SV% .918
- Vokoun salary 2 years @ 2 million/year.... Luongo $5.3million/10 years

This is just my opion, but unless Burke really wants Luongo than I think he's sitting out. Not saying that he shouldn't go after Luongo, but Vokoun was a better steal and Burke knows something about stealing (look at Calgary and Nashville).

I never heard anything about Vokoun wanting to come here, where did you hear that.

 

[middletoe]

I'm all for Lu, just not this season. Let the Canucks sweat it out when they have to drop salary to fit under the lowered cap next season and let Reimer/Scrivens post .89/.90 SV%s leading us to a top 3 pick.

Then, once we get our future star, pick up Lu on the cheap (asset standpoint) and make a splash for a legit forward if the UFA market is anywhere near the monstrous pool of talent it currently stands to project to and we can be set for the playoffs next season, IMO.

If I'm Luongo that would drive me nuts having to wait a year. Might not be good for a goalie to go through that.

 

[colchar]

I'm all for Lu, just not this season. Let the Canucks sweat it out when they have to drop salary to fit under the lowered cap next season and let Reimer/Scrivens post .89/.90 SV%s leading us to a top 3 pick.

A top three pick? Not even close to guaranteed because of the lottery and especially now that all non-playoff teams are to be included in that lottery.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

If I'm Luongo that would drive me nuts having to wait a year. Might not be good for a goalie to go through that.

That's fair enough. He might not even want to be traded next offseason.

My simple point is just let it ride with Reimer/Scrivens-- we're not a playoff team anyways. As it is, imo, we're a bottom 5 team and we have a legit shot at a top 3 pick with high end talent. I'd rather take a stab at that by sticking with our lineup as is (add in Franson and Ranger if he clears waivers upon hopefully signing) then acquiring Lu just to potentially squeak into the playoffs.

 

[middletoe]

I thought(but could be mistaken) that the bridge was burnt as far as Allaire goes.

Hopefully winning is bigger than a burnt bridge. I'd be surprised if it was irreparable though.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

A top three pick? Not even close to guaranteed because of the lottery and especially now that all non-playoff teams are to be included in that lottery.

We don't have a higher likelyhood of a top 3 pick if we finish bottom 3?

 

[WBG416]

I don't really understand how people don't want Luongo. Think about the veteran goalies we have picked up in the past like cujo and Ed belfour (both amazing goalies). Now lets look at the young goalies we tried make into good starters: raycroft, pogge, toskala, gustavsson, reimer. (See any difference?)

It's clear we need talent in net, while our defence and offence hover around average our goaltending has been below average for quite some time. This is what the leafs need to make the playoffs.

 

[topched]

Is it unfathomable?

EDIT: One name-- Olli Jokinen baby.


My guess-- you won't get the sarcasm of the posts.

I never heard anything about Vokoun wanting to come here, where did you hear that.

Really pretty telling that we couldn't even get Vokoun to come here (assuming we tried)... he'd rather sign with a team who has a chance to win something.

Until we establish a winning culture we'll be stuck with the Komisareks, Beauchimens, Connolly's and even Jokinen's of the world. Decent but overpriced FA's who don't compare to the top of the class.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Really pretty telling that we couldn't even get Vokoun to come here (assuming we tried)... he'd rather sign with a team who has a chance to win something.

Until we establish a winning culture we'll be stuck with the Komisareks, Beauchimens, Connolly's and even Jokinen's of the world. Decent but overpriced FA's who don't compare to the top of the class.

Didn't see the white writing did ya?

 

[colchar]

Well then Gillis certainly doesn't have much leverage for a trade then does he?

Nope, and Vancouver fans do not seem to understand this.

I said make Vancouver sweeten the pot or let them buy him out. If they can't buy him out then they need to sweeten the pot.

Leafs cannot give up value if they make this trade.

The Leafs need a goalie like Luongo but the price paid would have to be small enough to balance out the cap hit, penalties, etc. If the price is low enough then it becomes worth it, but if the price is too high (Gillis' previous asking price and the suggestions put forth by most Vancouver fans are preposterous) then it isn't worth it and other avenues should be explored (trade or going with Reimer/Scrivens and waiting to see who is available as a free agent this summer).

 

[colchar]

As it is, imo, we're a bottom 5 team and we have a legit shot at a top 3 pick with high end talent.

Two words - draft lottery.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Two words - draft lottery.

Please answer the question, set aside petulance.

 

[colchar]

We don't have a higher likelyhood of a top 3 pick if we finish bottom 3?

Until details of the CBA are released we have no way of knowing. But even with more balls in the draw the fact that it has been expanded to include more teams means that any team's chance of winning (or picking in the top three) is affected. Is that a gamble you really want to take - that we finish in the bottom three but end up picking sixth or seventh?

 

[topched]

Didn't see the white writing did ya?

Yeah actually I did.

While Jokinen is a joke (get it?), its a sad truth given the state of this franchise.

 

[colchar]

I don't really understand how people don't want Luongo. Think about the veteran goalies we have picked up in the past like cujo and Ed belfour (both amazing goalies). Now lets look at the young goalies we tried make into good starters: raycroft, pogge, toskala, gustavsson, reimer. (See any difference?)

It's clear we need talent in net, while our defence and offence hover around average our goaltending has been below average for quite some time. This is what the leafs need to make the playoffs.

First of all, his talent is not being questioned just the asking price when the cap hit, cap penalties, etc. are brought into the equation. Second, the Leafs' offence did not hover around average last year as they finished 10th in the league in scoring. Top ten is not average.

 

[colchar]

Really pretty telling that we couldn't even get Vokoun to come here (assuming we tried)... he'd rather sign with a team who has a chance to win something.

I don't think Burke bothered. But regardless, you cannot assume that he did not come here because he didn't want to as there could be any number of reasons why a player might sign with one team over another. You are assuming facts that are not in evidence.