Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

[Mr Knies Guy]

Until details of the CBA are released we have no way of knowing. But even with more balls in the draw the fact that it has been expanded to include more teams means that any team's chance of winning (or picking in the top three) is affected. Is that a gamble you really want to take - that we finish in the bottom three but end up picking sixth or seventh?

I appreciate the actual answer. Like you said, we're not sure what the new CBA brings with the elimination of the ball system. However, I believe there is still a statistical variable system in place whereby the likelihood of us falling to, say, 16th from our, say, 3rd last place in standings, is akin to a snowballs chance in hell or something like 0.5%. While all lottery teams have a shot at 1, the weighting system is said to be the same or very similar- such that teams lower in the standings have higher percentages of retaining a top pick.

Again, speculative, but personally with the high end talent available, it's a risk I'd be willing to get behind.

That said, I could see your point that it would burn us and we'd move down simply by our organization's luck.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Yeah actually I did.

While Jokinen is a joke (get it?), its a sad truth given the state of this franchise.

Whole-heartedly agree. Pipe dream, but when we likely fall outta the playoff race with a collosal 10-game losing streak, it'll give us something to look forward to

 

[Joey Hoser]

Until details of the CBA are released we have no way of knowing. But even with more balls in the draw the fact that it has been expanded to include more teams means that any team's chance of winning (or picking in the top three) is affected. Is that a gamble you really want to take - that we finish in the bottom three but end up picking sixth or seventh?

First of all, we don't decide anything so we're not taking any chances. Second, you act as though we have to make a decision today, which we don't, we can learn the details of the draft lottery first. Third, it's highly unlikely teams will be able to drop multiple places in the draft order regardless of the results of the lottery.

 

[Brewsky]

Do not want Luongo, screw him, give me a high draft pick if the goalies crap the bed, this is a strong draft baby, gimme that BLUE CHIPPAS!

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

First of all, we don't decide anything so we're not taking any chances. Second, you act as though we have to make a decision today, which we don't, we can learn the details of the draft lottery first. Third, it's highly unlikely teams will be able to drop multiple places in the draft order regardless of the results of the lottery.

Exactly. I'm just saying ride the Reims- let him play it out. We'll truly see what we have in him. If he returns to solid form pre-concussion, then we'll be mediocre and won't have to worry about Luongo's 65 year deal. If not, well, at least we have our weighted first-rounder to look forward to

 

[Ruski]

They will not buy him out, not with that contract. MacLean was saying on Hockey Central last night that all of the people, especially in the media, who keep throwing around the idea of buying him out have no idea what they are talking about because GMs do not go to owners and ask them to throw away that kind of money. He said there is no way in hell that Luongo gets bought out.

I agree with you, but what i am really curious about is how does the buyout $'s apply in the team revenue calculations.

If i read correctly, the buyouts count against the players 50/50 share. What I would like to find out is if a team buysout a player, does that teams "revenue" go down and therefore they pay theoretically "less" into revenue sharing (if applicable).

For a team like the Leafs, it maybe quite easy to take on Luongo's contract and if he doesn't workout after next season, take the buyout option. We know for a fact it won't count against the cap.

So if it just takes away from "revenue sharing $'s", then what do we care???

Even if it doesn't take away from "revenue sharing", us as fans shouldn't care that Rogers/Bell make ~$50mil less.

 

[ACC1224]

I agree with you, but what i am really curious about is how does the buyout $'s apply in the team revenue calculations.

If i read correctly, the buyouts count against the players 50/50 share. What I would like to find out is if a team buysout a player, does that teams "revenue" go down and therefore they pay theoretically "less" into revenue sharing (if applicable).

For a team like the Leafs, it maybe quite easy to take on Luongo's contract and if he doesn't workout after next season, take the buyout option. We know for a fact it won't count against the cap.

So if it just takes away from "revenue sharing $'s", then what do we care???

Even if it doesn't take away from "revenue sharing", us as fans shouldn't care that Rogers/Bell make ~$50mil less.

I thought the buyout amnesty was after this season?

Fans might not care if the Owners need to pay large buyouts but the Owners sure would.

 

[shakes]

If not, well, at least we have our weighted first-rounder to look forward to

And here I thought the goal was to look forward to the playoffs.. silly me.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

And here I thought the goal was to look forward to the playoffs.. silly me.

Why not quote the whole post.....? Because it's against the agenda of your post? Or are you simply unaware of what the word IF means?

 

[slozo]

I too am surprised at the Luongo bashers. Never will a team like Toronto ever get a better chance to get an A starting goalie - a proven one - in his prime.

Burke has already shown shrewdness in playing the waiting game until after the new CBA is signed . . . and Vancouver is the team with the weaker position here (they need to deal Luongo asap to avoid value slippage, and everyone knows it). I can predict playoffs with Luongo, and a whole new chapter in Leafsland.

I would really like to keep Bozak, and I am sure Burke does too, so I see it as highly unlikely that he goes. My prediction? Kadri + a 2nd.

 

[ULF_55]

I too am surprised at the Luongo bashers. Never will a team like Toronto ever get a better chance to get an A starting goalie - a proven one - in his prime.

Burke has already shown shrewdness in playing the waiting game until after the new CBA is signed . . . and Vancouver is the team with the weaker position here (they need to deal Luongo asap to avoid value slippage, and everyone knows it). I can predict playoffs with Luongo, and a whole new chapter in Leafsland.

I would really like to keep Bozak, and I am sure Burke does too, so I see it as highly unlikely that he goes. My prediction? Kadri + a 2nd.

Maybe Burke will wait for UFA season when there are a number of goaltenders available for just money.

I think Luongo is a strong possibility, but if they go with Reimer and the older Scrivens, they might review after the season to see how much they'll pay for veteran.

 

[VanW27]

Maybe Burke will wait for UFA season when there are a number of goaltenders available for just money.

Who?

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Mallard just said on the Fan that he feels that Lu is coming to Toronto.

Partly due to his comments yesterday.

 

[Mess]

I too am surprised at the Luongo bashers. Never will a team like Toronto ever get a better chance to get an A starting goalie - a proven one - in his prime.

Burke has already shown shrewdness in playing the waiting game until after the new CBA is signed . . . and Vancouver is the team with the weaker position here (they need to deal Luongo asap to avoid value slippage, and everyone knows it). I can predict playoffs with Luongo, and a whole new chapter in Leafsland.

I would really like to keep Bozak, and I am sure Burke does too, so I see it as highly unlikely that he goes. My prediction? Kadri + a 2nd.

I disagree that Vancouver is in a bad position (at least for this season)...

Luongo fits under their current cap situation this year, so there is no pressing need to trade him today, unless its more an issue of resolving a potential issue dealing with team harmony/chemistry and distractions if kept..

Also Vancouver even in a shortened season ahead is still primed as a strong Cup contender, this being based on winning the President's trophy the past 2 seasons running as best regular season team.

So if Schneider fails/struggles or gets injured than Vancouver's Cup aspirations are flushed down the drain with that, if Eddie Lack is the only option.. Which makes Luongo for this season a really good insurance policy if nothing else with 2 NHL starting goalies in tow, and a really good idea for the Canucks. IMO

I personally would wait until this summer, or if a top team needs a goalie this year and is desperate to acquire Luo at a steep price, or I could get a return that helps my team moving forward this year (and beyond) with a better chance of winning it all before dealing him.

If Tyler Bozak who is a UFA at seasons end, and if he is the best piece that Vancouver is getting from Leafs then why bother unless dumping that contract at all costs is the real motivation here. If the situation were reversed here and Leafs were a strong contender and I was dumping a proven starting NHL goalie for spare parts to simply dump a contract, then I would be angry if it hurt the team and its chances this season for success.

 

[Stats01]

Mallard just said on the Fan that he feels that Lu is coming to Toronto.

Partly due to his comments yesterday.

Yeah just heard that as well, he also added that he thinks the deal gets done before camps begin on Saturday. I really hope this happens, been so long since we had a legit #1

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Yeah just heard that as well, he also added that he thinks the deal gets done before camps begin on Saturday. I really hope this happens, been so long since we had a legit #1

I know. Me too. Way too long.

 

[ULF_55]

Who?

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2013&team_id=-1&position_id=G&fa_type_id=2

Capgeek lists the UFA for 2013, including Smith, Howard, Theodore, Backstrom, ...

Some will stay home, but there is always someone.

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah just heard that as well, he also added that he thinks the deal gets done before camps begin on Saturday. I really hope this happens, been so long since we had a legit #1

So he thinks the deal can get done before there is a CBA in place?

Has the league authorized teams to contact players to waive a clauses before there is an agreement in place?

That would be a positive situation for all teams.

 

[Stats01]

So he thinks the deal can get done before there is a CBA in place?

Has the league authorized teams to contact players to waive a clauses before there is an agreement in place?

That would be a positive situation for all teams.

The CBA will be ratified by tomorrow, he said a deal will be done by Saturday. He also said Vancouver does not want Luongo around when camps begin. If there is going to be a deal might as well get it done sooner rather than later. Have Schneider start and bring up Eddie Lack to back him up.

 

[Mess]

Mallard just said on the Fan that he feels that Lu is coming to Toronto.

Partly due to his comments yesterday.

Shannon on Sportsnet claimed throughout the lockout that Luongo to Toronto was all but certain and an official deal just needed to completed.

I personally also believe that Leafs are in desperate need of success and that makes the desire for Luongo for the Leafs great, and despite his denials previously by our GM, I think Luongo will be a Leaf this season, its only the cost it takes that makes me nervous.

So its not a matter of IF, but more so WHEN and for HOW Much !!!!

 

[topched]

So he thinks the deal can get done before there is a CBA in place?

Has the league authorized teams to contact players to waive a clauses before there is an agreement in place?

That would be a positive situation for all teams.

The CBA will be ratified by tomorrow, he said a deal will be done by Saturday. He also said Vancouver does not want Luongo around when camps begin. If there is going to be a deal might as well get it done sooner rather than later. Have Schneider start and bring up Eddie Lack to back him up.

This. It will be voted on and ratified tomorrow.

Also the league doesn't need to authorize GM's to talk to other GM's. Burke and Gillis could be working on a deal (or could have been working on a deal) already.

Gillis has already gotten the Ok from Luongo to seek a trade. I think the waiving of the no trade is a formality at this point.

 

[colchar]

Please answer the question, set aside petulance.

I wasn't being petulant, I was being concise.

 

[p.l.f.]

bozak kadri reimer lombardi for luongo and alberts ?

 

[colchar]

I appreciate the actual answer. Like you said, we're not sure what the new CBA brings with the elimination of the ball system.

The ball system is not eliminated there are just more teams involved in it.

However, I believe there is still a statistical variable system in place whereby the likelihood of us falling to, say, 16th from our, say, 3rd last place in standings, is akin to a snowballs chance in hell or something like 0.5%.

The four move restriction is gone so the team that finishes dead last could finish anywhere in the lottery.

While all lottery teams have a shot at 1, the weighting system is said to be the same or very similar- such that teams lower in the standings have higher percentages of retaining a top pick.

But the inclusion of more teams throws off the chances of winning the lottery and even of ending up with a pick that is anywhere near your place in the order of finish.

Again, speculative, but personally with the high end talent available, it's a risk I'd be willing to get behind.

Not worth it as that high end talent might not contribute to the Leafs for a couple of seasons at least.

 

[colchar]

First of all, we don't decide anything so we're not taking any chances. Second, you act as though we have to make a decision today, which we don't, we can learn the details of the draft lottery first. Third, it's highly unlikely teams will be able to drop multiple places in the draft order regardless of the results of the lottery.

The details are out (there is a thread here discussing them) and yes, teams can drop multiple places because the rule preventing a team from dropping more than four places is gone. So a team could finish dead last in the regular season and then also finish dead last in the lottery. It is a whole new ballgame now.