Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[6ix]

Spending $5M on Jack Campbell is the type of decision I'd expect someone who takes Matthews and his contract over Stutzle, so I guess this tracks.

Maybe it's more like Stutzle + Slavin vs Matthews.

So you’re a gambler. Hey, maybe it works out.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So you’re a gambler. Hey, maybe it works out.

I'm not the one paying Jack Campbell $5M. Talk about a gambler...

 

[Golden_Jet]

So stuzle + Jack Campbell or Matthews?

I’ll take Matthews

No, just pick a player from Ottawa, since that is the team.
Stutzle plus Chychurn or Batherson.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So stuzle + Jack Campbell or Matthews?

I’ll take Matthews

Why is that the only option for spending the extra $5 million on?

It's bizarre to me that people keep coming up with these scenarios where the ONLY outcome of having extra cap space is either a bad free agent signing.

 

[6ix]

Why is that the only option for spending the extra $5 million on?

It's bizarre to me that people keep coming up with these scenarios where the ONLY outcome of having extra cap space is either a bad free agent signing.

Have you read the thread? Majority seem to think quite the opposite in regards to it automatically being a good free agent signing with that 5 mill cap space. So I presented one of the many bad examples. It’s not a lock either way, so I’ll take the better player even it costs me $5 mill more.

 

[Breakers]

Matthew’s. He’s a 230 pound centre who puts up 50+ goals pretty much every year. He’s great defensively too. Stutzle is a very good player but he’s not in the same tier and AM.

No he isnt
Give me a break

 

[River Meadow]

I'd take Stootzlah, easily.

 

[wetcoast]

I personally think that's a fair, and would assume the majority would agree as well.

I also think most people voting Stutzle have Matthews ranked higher going into this season.

Stutzle is still (rightfully) winning the poll though. There's more to the question than "who's better?".

Sure there is more to the question but if we expropriate every players fromm the sens and compare them to every player on the Leafs in pills an outsider would think that the Leafs were way worse than the Sens who are obviously one of the better NHL teams.

That in a nutshell is why I take AM for this poll.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Stutzle easily

 

[Skolman]

Matthew’s. He’s a 230 pound centre who puts up 50+ goals pretty much every year. He’s great defensively too. Stutzle is a very good player but he’s not in the same tier and AM.

Matthews is 208 pounds..

He's put up 50+ goals once in his career.

Do you just assume people won't call you out on your lies?

 

[PainForShane]

Because they make more than the leafs can pay them elsewhere?

They pump up their stock and take a:
Justin Holl 3x3
Ilya mikheyev 4?x 4.8
Jack Campbell 5 x 5

Type deal after playing on good teams in Toronto and being constantly talked about by media and other fan bases. Look at Luke Schenn. If he stays in Vancouver for the rest of the year, you think he’s getting 2.75 million a year on a multi year contract just on the Canucks? You might not like the real answer but it is reality. The leafs helped with exposing how well he played because they draw attention to their players.

I think the idea is that, because they have no cap space, Leafs have trouble paying their players. Especially when compared to other teams who have more cap space and therefore can offer larger contracts. This is exactly what you said.

Do you have any questions about this? Seems a bit obvious when you say it yourself

 

[Xspyrit]

We get it you like Stutzle but don't be surprised when he has a ceiling.

Remember last year was an off year for Matthews his track record is much higher, Stutzle very well might get better or only a bit better and AM might bounce back to elite goal scorer flirting top 5 ish in points again.

Look I really love Stutzle but not all bets work out and some guys plateau and a guy with a down year after 3 really big ones often bounces back.

The name dropping in the "extra" 5 million doesn't help either it's not those exact players.

Every team has a cap and for Stutzle's contract to be the over the top difference then that extra 5 million needs some sort of team results not namedropping players.

Sorry for the delay but are you serious here? Why are you talking about Stutzle's ceiling when he was 20 y/o last season? You talked about peak, ceiling... are you suggesting that Stutzle has already peaked? That would be surprising since he entered the NHL so raw

It's not about Matthews not being a great player himself, it's about is he 50% better than Stutzle?

It doesn't matter which names are being thrown for that 5 M$ difference, it's about what it represents in today's NHL reality and yes it could really make a difference in team results.

I think the only reasons why this poll is still not closed are :

- Leafs/Matthews homers and Sens haters

- "Contracts Included" was not in the title at the beginning, and since many people don't read further than that...

- people who downplay the importance/value of cap space, or don't understand that Matthews will make almost 60% more

This is not close at all IRL

 

[The90]

I think the idea is that, because they have no cap space, Leafs have trouble paying their players. Especially when compared to other teams who have more cap space and therefore can offer larger contracts. This is exactly what you said.

Do you have any questions about this? Seems a bit obvious when you say it yourself

What question would I have? The leafs with less cap space, are able to do more than teams with ‘more cap space’. Perhaps the sens will accomplish more if they offered more larger contracts lol.

Next

Matthews is 208 pounds..

He's put up 50+ goals once in his career.

Do you just assume people won't call you out on your lies?

208 pounds is a weird way to say he’s listed at 215 on NHL.com.

A good 3 inches and 15 pounds heavier than the NHL average.

 

[PainForShane]

What question would I have? The leafs with less cap space, are able to do more than teams with ‘more cap space’. Perhaps the sens will accomplish more if they offered more larger contracts lol.

Next

Hate to have to be the one to tell you this but that's the opposite of what you just argued last post. Last post you argued that the Leafs couldn't sign their own players because these players made too much money... so how does that mean the Leafs do more than other teams seeing how they can't even re-sign their own players.

Now in the next sentence you are arguing 'perhaps the sens will accomplish more if (they overpay) their players lol.' Because overpaying players in a cap league is how to improve your roster 'lol'.

I now see why Tad Mikowsky laughs at you all time. Thx for making it clear and obvious

 

[Skolman]

What question would I have? The leafs with less cap space, are able to do more than teams with ‘more cap space’. Perhaps the sens will accomplish more if they offered more larger contracts lol.

Next


208 pounds is a weird way to say he’s listed at 215 on NHL.com.

A good 3 inches and 15 pounds heavier than the NHL average.

Right on man, he's also listed at 208 from multiple other sources.

No one cares about what the average is, he's still not 230 lbs.

Thanks for coming out though

 

[Xspyrit]

Damn what a mess these Matthews/Stutzle threads are lol

And the argument that Matthews is superior because "defensively"... yeah like if Matthews was a defensive stalwart at 20 y/o...

Yet, you look at Stutzle's metrics over the years, and it's clearly heading in one direction.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

 

[MavisGoldberg]

If Sens have such a steal in contracts compared to the Leafs, why the Shane Pinto situation? Sens have no cap with 0 playoff games and Pinto not signed.
Congrats on the extra "Cap"...
It's kind of humorous with all these comments about the extra cap that Sens have no cap LOL.

The issue with the "extra cap" argument is fans always envision that extra cap as being spent brilliantly on a steal of a contract. Leafs, contrary to popular belief, always get very good value on vast majority of their contracts.

 

[CDJ]

Factoring in contracts makes it an easy Stutzle pick for me. Without contracts I lean Matthews just because he’s been an established star for years now

If Sens have such a steal in contracts compared to the Leafs, why the Shane Pinto situation? Sens have no cap with 0 playoff games and Pinto not signed.
Congrats on the extra "Cap"...
It's kind of humorous with all these comments about the extra cap that Sens have no cap LOL.

The issue with the "extra cap" argument is fans always envision that extra cap as being spent brilliantly on a steal of a contract. Leafs, contrary to popular belief, always get very good value on vast majority of their contracts.

Not a whole lot of success for a team that’s getting very good value on the vast majority of contracts!

 

[MavisGoldberg]

Factoring in contracts makes it an easy Stutzle pick for me. Without contracts I lean Matthews just because he’s been an established star for years now


Not a whole lot of success for a team that’s getting very good value on the vast majority of contracts!

Never missed the playoffs since Matthews, Marner. Nylander have been in the NHL. 0 playoff games for the Sens.
Sens have no cap and can't sign Pinto. But the discussion is how much they can do with that extra "Cap".

Making the playoffs is a big deal...

 

[CDJ]

Never missed the playoffs since Matthews, Marner. Nylander have been in the NHL. 0 playoff games for the Sens.
Sens have no cap and can't sign Pinto. But the discussion is how much they can do with that extra "Cap".

Making the playoffs is a big deal...

1 series win in how many years? Tough to say they’re getting great value on the vast majority of their deals when they spend to the cap and end up finishing in the middle of the pack every year. This year was their best showing and they got dogwalked in round 2.

 

[MavisGoldberg]

1 series win in how many years? Tough to say they’re getting great value on the vast majority of their deals when they end up finishing in the middle of the pack every year. This year was their best showing and they got dogwalked in round 2.

But how is the extra cap so great for the Sens? They can't afford Shane Pinto and have not seen the playoffs yet...
Statistically Leafs are getting good value (this year only middle-of-the-pack though). Athletic does a yearly piece on it. When you hit on signings like Bunting naturally you'll be high on the list.
The difference for the Leafs is their "Bad contracts" are a PPG centre getting 2nd line usage or a 2 way star winger who just had 99 points and was a Selke finalist. Most teams have far, far worse

 

[CDJ]

But how is the extra cap so great for the Sens? They can't afford Shane Pinto and have not seen the playoffs yet...

I didn’t say it was, I’m talking about the Leafs who you inserted into this discussion. I find leafs fans blasting another organizations lack of success and then pumping up their own rather fun.

 

[MavisGoldberg]

I didn’t say it was, I’m talking about the Leafs who you inserted into this discussion. I find leafs fans blasting another organizations lack of success and then pumping up their own rather fun.

I am simply responding to the numerous comments in this thread about how the extra 5 million is so great. It seems to be ignoring reality right now...
Leaf fans are free to point this out...

 

[CDJ]

I am simply responding to the numerous comments in this thread about how the extra 5 million is so great. It seems to be ignoring reality right now...
Leaf fans are free to point this out...

You realize the difference between Stutzle and Matthews contract is pretty much the exact amount Tarasenko signed for, right? I’m not even a sens fan but that’s just silly

I’d rather have Stutzle + Tarasenko for sure. Just because they are run by an idiot who didn’t leave enough money for Pinto doesn’t change that fact.