Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[dirtydanglez]

Alot of people are overlooking the fact that Stutzle has EIGHT years left at this already amazing AAV. Matthews has 5 years left. What's going to be Matthews' AAV for Stutzle's final 3 years? $15m?

i think most people already factored in matthews shorter contract and his greed. if he had an 8x13.25 i think this poll would be a lot closer.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Without contracts clearly Timmy. With contracts, Timmy even more.

 

[tsujimoto74]

It's always crazy to see how many people think 5 million in cap space automatically turns into Alex Tuch and not Nikita Zaitsev.

I just looked through the players with a ~5 million dollar cap hit, and there are very few I'd take with Stutzle over Matthews.

That’s one way of looking at it. But you could also frame it as half (or more) of the cap space needed for another $8m or $10m star, instead of all of the cap space needed for an aggressively mid player.

 

[notbias]

That’s one way of looking at it. But you could also frame it as half (or more) of the cap space needed for another $8m or $10m star, instead of all of the cap space needed for an aggressively mid player.

Sure, now is that star Jeff Skinner or Eichel?

Cap space is overrated.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It's always crazy to see how many people think 5 million in cap space automatically turns into Alex Tuch and not Nikita Zaitsev.

I just looked through the players with a ~5 million dollar cap hit, and there are very few I'd take with Stutzle over Matthews.

Or you could also look at the players in that ball park on the Sens.
Batherson, Chychurn, and Tarasenko.

 

[notbias]

Or you could also look at the players in that ball park on the Sens.
Batherson, Chychurn, and Tarasenko.

I think I'd take Matthews over any 2.

Or you could look at the 5 million of dead cap.

 

[General Fanager]

Ill go with Stuzle.

Matthews might be a bit better but ill go for Stuzle and the extra term and 5 million in cap space.

 

[MCR74]

I think I'd take Matthews over any 2.

Or you could look at the 5 million of dead cap.

I'm sure Dorion could use that extra $5M now.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Stutzle provides much more contract value. Matthews does not carry a team enough to make that much more.

 

[mkatcherin00]

I’ll take the better player. When you have to add ‘contracts included’, the square peg you’re trying to shove into a round hole, is still a square peg.

Unlike smaller and less desirable teams/ cities (like Edmonton), the leafs get to offset his cap hit by having depth players actually wanting to play in their city and taking discounts and ‘prove it’ contracts to do that and fill out depth positions. For this reason, the leafs have been able to put up 110+ point seasons without having to play their stars for 28 minutes a night and full 2 minute powerplays because behind them, their depth is trash.

Why do most of the Leafs depth players leave after being signed as UFA's?

 

[mkatcherin00]

I will take the guy with 2 rockets, a hart trophy, a Ted Lindsay trophy, the rookie of the year, ans has played playoff games.

Over the guy that's done none of those things.

There is no legitimate argument here.

You could look at it this way.

One guy has done all of that and has been a ghost come big playoff crunch time and is getting up in age and is somehow the highest paid player in the NHL coming off of a 40sh goal and 85 point campaign. We have seen what he is. Can't get the job done. Pace goes down come playoff time.

Also can't really be trusted to play a full season so he is basically around a 40 goal scorer. Pace does not matter.

The other guy is very very young and has big upside and can outproduce at a much lower cap hit.

 

[MCR74]

You could look at it this way.

One guy has done all of that and has been a ghost come big playoff crunch time and is getting up in age and is somehow the highest paid player in the NHL coming off of a 40sh goal and 85 point campaign. We have seen what he is. Can't get the job done. Pace goes down come playoff time.

The other guy is very very young and has big upside and can outproduce at a much lower cap hit.

Stutzle may never see the playoffs for the length of his contract. His team can't get it done when it matters either.

As for outproducing Matthews, he's done it once.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Stutzle may never see the playoffs for the length of his contract. His team can't get it done when it matters either.

As for outproducing Matthews, he's done it once.

Stutzle is 21 and has 2 seasons. Matthews is 27. How many times did you expect him to outproduce Matthews?
As for playoffs, one guy has disappointed so far and the other guy hasn’t had a chance in his first 2 years.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Stutzle may never see the playoffs for the length of his contract. His team can't get it done when it matters either.

As for outproducing Matthews, he's done it once.

Or you could say he's done it every year that he hasn't started as a teenager.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Stutzle may never see the playoffs for the length of his contract. His team can't get it done when it matters either.

 

[mkatcherin00]

sorry but cap hit be dammed, I want the BEST player and thats Matthews, not only will he out point Tim, he is better defensively and a center. Hell when Tim does take draws he went 41% lol

What's his plus/minus in his playoff career? When the games get tougher and tighter?

I will tell ya lol

He lets in as many as he scores.

That sure is elite defensively though

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You could look at it this way.

One guy has done all of that and has been a ghost come big playoff crunch time and is getting up in age and is somehow the highest paid player in the NHL coming off of a 40sh goal and 85 point campaign. We have seen what he is. Can't get the job done. Pace goes down come playoff time.

Also can't really be trusted to play a full season so he is basically around a 40 goal scorer. Pace does not matter.

The other guy is very very young and has big upside and can outproduce at a much lower cap hit.

Getting up in age? He's 26

 

[MCR74]

Getting up in age? He's 26

LMAO! Yeah, totally past his prime.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You could look at it this way.

One guy has done all of that and has been a ghost come big playoff crunch time and is getting up in age and is somehow the highest paid player in the NHL coming off of a 40sh goal and 85 point campaign. We have seen what he is. Can't get the job done. Pace goes down come playoff time.

Also can't really be trusted to play a full season so he is basically around a 40 goal scorer. Pace does not matter.

The other guy is very very young and has big upside and can outproduce at a much lower cap hit.

His age is fine.

 

[The90]

Why do most of the Leafs depth players leave after being signed as UFA's?

Because they make more than the leafs can pay them elsewhere?

They pump up their stock and take a:
Justin Holl 3x3
Ilya mikheyev 4?x 4.8
Jack Campbell 5 x 5

Type deal after playing on good teams in Toronto and being constantly talked about by media and other fan bases. Look at Luke Schenn. If he stays in Vancouver for the rest of the year, you think he’s getting 2.75 million a year on a multi year contract just on the Canucks? You might not like the real answer but it is reality. The leafs helped with exposing how well he played because they draw attention to their players.

 

[MCR74]

Because they make more than the leafs can pay them elsewhere?

They pump up their stock and take a:
Justin Holl 3x3
Ilya mikheyev 4?x 4.8
Jack Campbell 5 x 5

Type deal after playing on good teams in Toronto and being constantly talked about by media and other fan bases. Look at Luke Schenn. If he stays in Vancouver for the rest of the year, you think he’s getting 2.75 million a year on a multi year contract just on the Canucks? You might not like the real answer but it is reality. The leafs helped with exposing how well he played because they draw attention to their players.

Good point.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That’s one way of looking at it. But you could also frame it as half (or more) of the cap space needed for another $8m or $10m star, instead of all of the cap space needed for an aggressively mid player.

Yeah, I think too often people look at the extra cap space as though that's the ONLY way that money is spent. They forget that that extra cap space can go toward upgrading an existing player (ie. a $3 million player into a $8 million player with $5 million in additional cap space available).

 

[HisNoodliness]

I voted Stutzle because I think there's a solid chance that Matthews walks in 4 years, but I feel like Matthews is underrated here.

 

[6ix]

So stuzle + Jack Campbell or Matthews?

I’ll take Matthews

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So stuzle + Jack Campbell or Matthews?

I’ll take Matthews

Spending $5M on Jack Campbell is the type of decision I'd expect someone who takes Matthews and his contract over Stutzle, so I guess this tracks.

Maybe it's more like Stutzle + Slavin vs Matthews.