Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[Strangle]

Why on Earth would the Senators trade for a guy making 5 million more dollars for 3 fewer years when they are already in cap trouble to the tune of having issues signing their #3C?

He's not enough of an upgrade to swallow that kind of financial hit, not to mention, Ottawa's contending window isn't open yet so they need those extra years from a #1C under contract.

Well then Ottawa is a worse run franchise than I thought. If they’d turn down a one-for-one like that

Matthews is 26 and realistically has 4 or 5 more prime years and then likely starts to decline a bit. Stutzle is 21 and on a much cheaper deal.
The poll is not who is the better player but who you would take between the two.

And it should be obvious that you take Matthews

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This entire post makes no sense given the premise of the thread that we're currently posting in and the question that was asked.

Killorn is both a worse player and has a worse contract than Bedard. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

I used Bedard and Killorn to show what I've been saying, contracts don't have anything to do with which player is better

 

[NyQuil]

I used Bedard and Killorn to show what I've been saying, contracts don't have anything to do with which player is better

Neither does the poll question.

Funny how in the Ottawa-Buffalo poll about who is more likely to make the playoffs, I defended you and actually supported people answering the actual poll question as you had written it.

And here you are ignoring it as much as possible.

Just say "Contracts included, I still take Matthews". That's it, that's all.

 

[NyQuil]

Well then Ottawa is a worse run franchise than I thought. If they’d turn down a one-for-one like that

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

When it comes to negotiating contracts though, I think there might be a reason this poll is even close at all, and it's not because of how Ottawa was being managed.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Give me Stutzle and the 5 million per season in cap savings all day long.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well then Ottawa is a worse run franchise than I thought. If they’d turn down a one-for-one like that



And it should be obvious that you take Matthews

Would you take McDavid at 13M for next 3 years or Matthews at 8M for the next 8 years?

 

[Golden_Jet]

The cap exists but cap hits have 0 to do with who the better player is.

Baring injury Bedard is going to have a better offensive season than Killorn Bedard will be the better player.

He will be the better player because he's a better play.

Contracts have nothing to do with that he just is.

Auston Matthews is better than Tim Stuzle, contracts have nothing to do with that, he just is.

Contracts are included so that you can try your hardest to make that square peg fit into that round hole.

But the reality is Matthews is a better player

Contracts don't change that.

Keep telling yourself that, I’m sure you’ll convince someone, cap hits don’t matter in a cap world.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Would you take McDavid at 13M for next 3 years or Matthews at 8M for the next 8 years?

it should be 4 years tho shouldn't it since matthew's contract doesnt kick in for another season.

it's a tough call but i think id take mcdavid for 4 years at 13m

 

[Golden_Jet]

Lol you’re more worried about winning an argument than you are about actually being right.

You put zero effort into understanding what anyone else is saying, you’re too focused on ‘winning’. You haven’t proved a thing lmfao



The contracts aren’t as big of a deciding factor as you may think they are.

Would the Leafs trade Matthews for Stutzle? Would Ottawa turn it down? Of course not, to either.

No Ottawa wouldn’t trade for Matthew’s cap hit, especially for a player that won’t extend for 8 years.

 

[Strangle]

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

When it comes to negotiating contracts though, I think there might be a reason this poll is even close at all, and it's not because of how Ottawa was being managed.

Stutzle is a fine player, but people over value cap space. It doesn’t score you goals, it doesn’t win you games.

The worst thing about the cap in the NHL is that it’s become all we fans really talk about. It gives the illusion of it being more important than a 60 goal scoring hart trophy winning two-way center.

And it’s not

Would you take McDavid at 13M for next 3 years or Matthews at 8M for the next 8 years?

McDavid. Wouldn’t everyone?

The point is to win hockey games, not have the most cap space

No Ottawa wouldn’t trade for Matthew’s cap hit, especially for a player that won’t extend for 8 years.

Then they deserve to be out of the playoffs

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Stutzle is a fine player, but people over value cap space. It doesn’t score you goals, it doesn’t win you games.

The worst thing about the cap in the NHL is that it’s become all we fans really talk about. It gives the illusion of it being more important than a 60 goal scoring hart trophy winning two-way center.

And it’s not



McDavid. Wouldn’t everyone?

The point is to win hockey games, not have the most cap space



Then they deserve to be out of the playoffs

Of course the goal is to win hockey games. Which is why the question is whether Stutzle at 5 years younger plus another player with all of the the extra cap space is more valuable than Matthews. That’s why it’s not as clear cut as you’re trying to pretend.

 

[Strangle]

Of course the goal is to win hockey games. Which is why the question is whether Stutzle at 5 years younger plus another player with all of the the extra cap space is more valuable than Matthews. That’s why it’s not as clear cut as you’re trying to pretend.

When you’re talking about a 26 year old vs a 21 year old, the age difference falls in the 26 year olds favor. Not the other way around.
If Matthews was 29 or 30 years old, sure. In that case the younger player gets an edge. But not at 26, smack dab in the middle of your prime.

“All that extra cap space” - $5m dollars? That’s not much cap space at all. It’s one bad contract, or one overpayment.

This is an example of fans overvaluing cap space. It’s not the difference between the product on the ice in this case.

If you’re asking about Tavares or Stutzle with contracts? Well, different story entirely. Age and performance and contract all go to Stutzle.

But this is about Matthews and Stutzle, and matthews is just too special of a player to haggle over cap room in this kind of poll.

 

[asd1]

There's also the aspect of future players signing. What would Nylander's ask be if he didn't have several other players making over 10 million on his team?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

When you’re talking about a 26 year old vs a 21 year old, the age difference falls in the 26 year olds favor. Not the other way around.
If Matthews was 29 or 30 years old, sure. In that case the younger player gets an edge. But not at 26, smack dab in the middle of your prime.

“All that extra cap space” - $5m dollars? That’s not much cap space at all. It’s one bad contract, or one overpayment.

This is an example of fans overvaluing cap space. It’s not the difference between the product on the ice in this case.

If you’re asking about Tavares or Stutzle with contracts? Well, different story entirely. Age and performance and contract all go to Stutzle.

But this is about Matthews and Stutzle, and matthews is just too special of a player to haggle over cap room in this kind of poll.

So in your opinion:
1. 26 year olds are preferred to 21 year olds.
2. If a team has $5 million in cap space they will just waste it.
Nope. Not buying what you’re trying to sell in order to make your guy appear better. You’ll have to come up with more reasonable arguments.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

When you’re talking about a 26 year old vs a 21 year old, the age difference falls in the 26 year olds favor. Not the other way around.
If Matthews was 29 or 30 years old, sure. In that case the younger player gets an edge. But not at 26, smack dab in the middle of your prime.

“All that extra cap space” - $5m dollars? That’s not much cap space at all. It’s one bad contract, or one overpayment.

This is an example of fans overvaluing cap space. It’s not the difference between the product on the ice in this case.

If you’re asking about Tavares or Stutzle with contracts? Well, different story entirely. Age and performance and contract all go to Stutzle.

But this is about Matthews and Stutzle, and matthews is just too special of a player to haggle over cap room in this kind of poll.

Hopefully Nylander and Marner both get 10 and 12+ million respectively then, no need to worry about cap space

 

[The90]

This thread in a nutshell for leaf fans.

 

[Golden_Jet]

“All that extra cap space” - $5m dollars? That’s not much cap space at all. It’s one bad contract, or one overpayment.

Sure if you overlook 50% of the options, like you just did.

Options missed - a fair deal for both sides
or an underpayment.

Looking at the Senators, in that range let alone other players in the league.

You have Batherson, Chychurn, Tarasenko and Zub.

This thread in a nutshell for leaf fans.

Lol can always rely on you for this post.
Should change it up once in a while so not so predictable.

 

[Strangle]

Sure if you overlook 50% of the options, like you just did.

Options missed - a fair deal for both sides
or an underpayment.

Looking at the Senators, in that range let alone other players in the league.

You have Batherson, Chychurn, Tarasenko and Zub.

I guess we can wait and see which team is better then lol

Since Stutzle +5m > Matthews

 

[deleted user]

Strangle, sometimes the appropriate thing to do is stop digging..

 

[Strangle]

Strangle, sometimes the appropriate thing to do is stop digging..

Why? Lol

 

[deleted user]

Why? Lol

Because it's embarrassing.

 

[wintersej]

Matthews is a better player. I would take the better contract.

 

[Strangle]

Matthews is a better player. I would take the better contract.

Careful … lots of people don’t care about better players in this thread. All they care about is cap

(I agree with you)

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

McDavid. Wouldn’t everyone?

No they would not

The point is to win hockey games, not have the most cap space

How many more games can you win in 3 years with McDavid vs 8 years with Matthews?

"Contracts included" isn't just about cap. It's also about term.

And I can't believe I have to say this, but 5M in cap space can be used to acquire other players that help you win hockey games. Which can help in team sports.

You'd think a Leafs fan would know better than anyone how a top heavy cap structure can be limiting, and how important it is to have depth through the lineup.

 

[Strangle]

No they would not

How many more games can you win in 3 years with McDavid vs 8 years with Matthews?

"Contracts included" isn't just about cap. It's also about term.

And I can't believe I have to say this, but 5M in cap space can be used to acquire other players that help you win hockey games. Which can help in team sports.

You'd think a Leafs fan would know better than anyone how a top heavy cap structure can be limiting, and how important it is to have depth through the lineup.

If you wouldn’t take Mcdavid over matthews because of contract length, I’d call you crazy.

You know you can resign players, right? It doesn’t mean you **only** get 3 years of Mcdavid. And even if you did, for those 3 years you have a better chance to win than with matthews.

That’s the goal here, not trying to win in 20 years, not trying to stay middle of the pack or flexible, the goal is to win and you win hockey games now, not hypothetical future seasons.

A lot can change in 8 years, Mcdavid might go win Stanley cups somewhere else while you’re too busy counting your cap space.

As a Leaf fan, I’m enjoying the hell out of this team. I’d much rather have these players with this cap than swap with a team like ottawa