Toggle sidebar

Player Discussion Tim Stützle - (C) - Part VI

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
coladin said:
I think Norris is a true No. 1 Center, and we were robbed of that this year. Norris is better defensively and has a better shot. Crazy how set this team is down the middle
Click to expand...

For now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Stu catch up quickly.
 
JD1 said:
Him and Formenton on the PK next year. Book 10 shorties now
Click to expand...
Idk if Formenton plays another game for us regardless of any outcome from the investigation, no matter what we do it's going to be bad PR but trading his rights is probably the easiest way to make the story disappear, fresh start in a US market is probably the best way for him to put it in the past too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nac Mac Feegle and Icelevel
Micklebot said:
Idk if Formenton plays another game for us regardless of any outcome from the investigation, no matter what we do it's going to be bad PR but trading his rights is probably the easiest way to make the story disappear, fresh start in a US market is probably the best way for him to put it in the past too.
Click to expand...
Unless he is proven guilty then he should be signed in our line up next year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: h2
TeamRenzo said:
Unless he is proven guilty then he should be signed in our line up next year.
Click to expand...
I think it's a bit more nuanced than that, but that's a discussion for another day I suppose.

I'll leave it at this, if it were as simple as convicted of charges, he's gone, not convicted he's signed and plays, then we'd have signed him this year and he'd be in the lineup right now since we could suspend him if charges ever got laid and terminate the contract if proven guilty.
 
Micklebot said:
I think it's a bit more nuanced than that, but that's a discussion for another day I suppose.

I'll leave it at this, if it were as simple as convicted of charges, he's gone, not convicted he's signed and plays, then we'd have signed him this year and he'd be in the lineup right now since we could suspend him if charges ever got laid and terminate the contract if proven guilty.
Click to expand...
Agree, this also might be a new owners call possibly.
 
Micklebot said:
I think it's a bit more nuanced than that, but that's a discussion for another day I suppose.

I'll leave it at this, if it were as simple as convicted of charges, he's gone, not convicted he's signed and plays, then we'd have signed him this year and he'd be in the lineup right now since we could suspend him if charges ever got laid and terminate the contract if proven guilty.
Click to expand...
I agree. I’m sure they didn’t get a deal done because there was concern over how this all would play out, and what role Formy may or may not have played. They didn’t want the potential for bad optics.

However,

They also insisted the whole time that this was about contracts, which leaves the door wide open for his return should nothing come of the second investigation.

I personally think that if nothing happens at all, as in there isn’t enough evidence to lay charges and no names are named I can see a return. If names are names and a trial follows that ends in ‘not guilty’ that’s a lot more of an optics issue to swallow, and I don’t see a path back to Ottawa after that. Another team after a trade perhaps.
 
Samsquanch said:
I shudder at the thought of how much dough this kid would have cost the Sens this summer if PD didn't get ahead of it when he did.

Don't want to turn this into a pointless debate about his worth as a GM, but goddamn that was a shrewd move that might have saved the team $2-3m per year on his AAV.

If he was a brat like Marner and had his same agent that answers to his insufferable and overly involved family - you had better believe he's starting negotiations at least I'm the $11m per range.

Tim's not a greedy or entitled kid so maybe only ends up at around $9.5m or so. But wow did we ever get fortunate that he was so willing to sign when he did...

He could easily end up being on one of the best contracts in the league in a fee years. Accounting for cap inflation and time, and the quality of player, its quite similar go Nathan McKinnons $6m/yr deal he signed out of his ELC.
Click to expand...

The fact that he said his parents don't need to work anymore when asked what he'd spend all his new money on is pretty telling about his character.

Hard to say what the future holds, but it certainly seems like this kid has a good head on his shoulders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Samsquanch, Spinal tracker and Agent Zuuuub
Where does he land, goal wise this season?

At this point I wouldn't rule out 40 but I am comfortable saying 35. He is seeing only net these days.
 
Ice-Tray said:
I agree. I’m sure they didn’t get a deal done because there was concern over how this all would play out, and what role Formy may or may not have played. They didn’t want the potential for bad optics.

However,

They also insisted the whole time that this was about contracts, which leaves the door wide open for his return should nothing come of the second investigation.

I personally think that if nothing happens at all, as in there isn’t enough evidence to lay charges and no names are named I can see a return. If names are names and a trial follows that ends in ‘not guilty’ that’s a lot more of an optics issue to swallow, and I don’t see a path back to Ottawa after that. Another team after a trade perhaps.
Click to expand...
The middle ground is no charges are laid because the evidence isn't strong enough for the prosecution to feel comfortable they can secure a conviction, but the NHL takes action on the basis of its internal review

Lots of people want to believe just because charges aren't laid it means there was no criminality, that's not really true, beyond a reasonable doubt is a damn high standard and something as simple as the victim having a checkered past can be enough to inject doubt.

The league has a lot more leeway, they don't even need a crime to have been committed to exercise disciplinary action and they don't need to meet the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, they can act on a preponderance of the evidence. Basically the OJ effect, not criminally guilty of murder, but financially liable for the death of those same people in civil court.

Lots of people wanting to blame it on cancel culture, but that's just a red herring to try and divide people, we don't live in a black and white world of criminally guilty or innocent, much of things fall in the grey zone something definately happened but they evidence isn't there to be comfortable taking away a guys freedom.
 
Micklebot said:
The middle ground is no charges are laid because the evidence isn't strong enough for the prosecution to feel comfortable they can secure a conviction, but the NHL takes action on the basis of its internal review

Lots of people want to believe just because charges aren't laid it means there was no criminality, that's not really true, beyond a reasonable doubt is a damn high standard and something as simple as the victim having a checkered past can be enough to inject doubt.

The league has a lot more leeway, they don't even need a crime to have been committed to exercise disciplinary action and they don't need to meet the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, they can act on a preponderance of the evidence. Basically the OJ effect, not criminally guilty of murder, but financially liable for the death of those same people in civil court.

Lots of people wanting to blame it on cancel culture, but that's just a red herring to try and divide people, we don't live in a black and white world of criminally guilty or innocent, much of things fall in the grey zone something definately happened but they evidence isn't there to be comfortable taking away a guys freedom.
Click to expand...
Lots of people think a lot of things.

If the names are never made public, no player officially linked to the incident, and no charges are ever brought to bare, it would be hard for the league to justify blocking a player from playing in the league to the NHLPA in my opinion, but likely not impossible.

There are players playing in the league who have been publicly accused of assaults and not found guilty, so there is definitely precedent.

We’ll find out one way or another regardless.
 
Ice-Tray said:
Lots of people think a lot of things.

If the names are never made public, no player officially linked to the incident, and no charges are ever brought to bare, it would be hard for the league to justify blocking a player from playing in the league to the NHLPA in my opinion, but likely not impossible.

There are players playing in the league who have been publicly accused of assaults and not found guilty, so there is definitely precedent.

We’ll find out one way or another regardless.
Click to expand...
The league did its own investigation, they interviewed all the players with any link, they may have gone further than that, idk, if they opt to dole out discipline and need to justify it to the PA they'd have the evidence to do so from their internal investigation, if they didn't have the evidence, they wouldn't be doling out discipline.

It may disappear with no action taken by anyone, that's a possible outcome, might even be the most likely given the difficulties surrounding attempts to prove sexual misconduct in general. But my point was there is a spectrum of possible outcomes between charged and found criminally guilty, and never charged, never spoken of again. The NHL is a business that needs to protect its image, limit it's liabilities and set a standard for how its employees conduct themselves. Formenton was not just a drafted prospect, he was under contract, he represented the NHL as well as hockey Canada at the time of the alledged incident, I hope he represented them well but if not I hope that any consequences arising from his conduct are proportional to what he did, regardless of whether he is charged, or the full details and names get out into the public.
 
Micklebot said:
The league did its own investigation, they interviewed all the players with any link, they may have gone further than that, idk, if they opt to dole out discipline and need to justify it to the PA they'd have the evidence to do so from their internal investigation, if they didn't have the evidence, they wouldn't be doling out discipline.

It may disappear with no action taken by anyone, that's a possible outcome, might even be the most likely given the difficulties surrounding attempts to prove sexual misconduct in general. But my point was there is a spectrum of possible outcomes between charged and found criminally guilty, and never charged, never spoken of again. The NHL is a business that needs to protect its image, limit it's liabilities and set a standard for how its employees conduct themselves. Formenton was not just a drafted prospect, he was under contract, he represented the NHL as well as hockey Canada at the time of the alledged incident, I hope he represented them well but if not I hope that any consequences arising from his conduct are proportional to what he did, regardless of whether he is charged, or the full details and names get out into the public.
Click to expand...
I agree with the possibility here, I just don’t think it’s likely to play out that way without any specific public discourse. The league would be expected to answer some hard questions.

They need to protect their image, but also have to take into account the likely grievance that would be filed by the NHLPA. It would also highlight other players that are playing that have potentially negatively affected the NHL ‘image’ without being found guilty of actions such as Kane with the accusations of rape, and Ovi with the whole supporting Putin thing as examples. It might be easier to lean on the justice system and call it a day. but we’ll see.

I wonder if the NHL would be required or expected to share any findings with the London police. You’d think that if they had any internal information that was actionable that the police would like to know about it.
 
ZubMeUp said:



I'm just going to spam these old tweets around a bit...
Click to expand...

That whole thread is a goldmine.
In the first round, what it really comes down to is what if the Sens swapped out one of Stutzle or Sanderson for one of the high, high probability guys with massive star potential on the board. These include: Rossi, Perfetti, Drysdale and even Jarvis.
Click to expand...
What if, indeed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ratatoskr, Spinal tracker, PlayItAgain and 1 other person
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom