This is a bad hockey team

[duhmetreE]

I'm starting to dread the idea that this team is turning into the hockey equivalent of the New York Jets.

Pain.

 

[OrlandK]

Obviously the title of this thread is hyperbole.

That said I gather we are supposed to not be concerned that the two very very high draft picks, that our future is based to a large degree on, and that our team has been constructed to rely on this season, have done virtually nothing to date in the NHL. And one of the two is in his third season! Yeah OK.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

GG has specifically said he doesn't want pucks flipped out into the neutral zone. We just need more puck support in the d zone. How many times did we have to watch Fox hang on to the puck and get everyone to come back to breakout again. Forwards want no part to do with helping their defensemen in the breakout. They just expect to be found cheating for offense all the time.

I specifically recall the post game presser you're talking about where GG mentioned it. The problem is he's trying to clean up some of the neutral zone turnovers with conservative plays. It's absurdly obvious that he's trying to take a less risky approach to the game. I'm all for that depending on the opposition. Yeah sure I'm not going to play games in the neutral zone when McD and Draisaitl are on the ice, but against Van and Seattle? I'll f***ing tap dance in the neutral zone all game if it means cleaner zone entries. He's stifled all creativity from the forwards and when you combine that with the Tinordi/Nemeth powerhouse 3rd pair that can't make an outlet pass to save their lives you get the results we've been seeing: lifeless offense 5v5 and two offensively skilled young players not producing anything.

He needs to tweak this up a bit and I'm sure he will. But really, there's no incentive for him to change anything if we keep getting points and Igor keeps stealing games. That's how this team made it to the finals in 2014 so I wouldn't be surprised to see a full year of low scoring, painful to watch but winning hockey

 

[DanielBrassard]

I specifically recall the post game presser you're talking about where GG mentioned it. The problem is he's trying to clean up some of the neutral zone turnovers with conservative plays. It's absurdly obvious that he's trying to take a less risky approach to the game. I'm all for that depending on the opposition. Yeah sure I'm not going to play games in the neutral zone when McD and Draisaitl are on the ice, but against Van and Seattle? I'll f***ing tap dance in the neutral zone all game if it means cleaner zone entries. He's stifled all creativity from the forwards and when you combine that with the Tinordi/Nemeth powerhouse 3rd pair that can't make an outlet pass to save their lives you get the results we've been seeing: lifeless offense 5v5 and two offensively skilled young players not producing anything.

He needs to tweak this up a bit and I'm sure he will. But really, there's no incentive for him to change anything if we keep getting points and Igor keeps stealing games. That's how this team made it to the finals in 2014 so I wouldn't be surprised to see a full year of low scoring, painful to watch but winning hockey

Please don't compare this team to the 2014 team, that team was anything but low event hockey. They were exciting to watch.

 

[fm]

Just turn Tinordi into B.Smith 2.0

This is a great idea. I bet we see this by the end of the year.

 

[Tob]

This is probably the worst bad hockey team out of all the bad hockey teams we've had over the years.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'm starting to dread the idea that this team is turning into the hockey equivalent of the New York Jets.

Pain.

6-2-2 (7 games on the road) and you think they're turning into the Jets?

 

[will1066]

I never got these type of threads. If Shesty wasn't on the team...blah blah blah. Well he is on the team so what's the point of even bringing this up?

Look at it the other way. Teams like Canadiens, Blackhawks, Coyotes, and Kraken have been brought up in this thread as being bad teams. Give them Shesty and I'm sure all of them would have stolen a few wins too. Shesty is literally the one guy, other than Fox, that's been the difference separating this team and the "bad teams." Not exactly a huge cushion of confidence.

 

[Fitzy]

Look at it the other way. Teams like Canadiens, Blackhawks, Coyotes, and Kraken have been brought up in this thread as being bad teams. Give them Shesty and I'm sure all of them would have stolen a few wins too. Shesty is literally the one guy, other than Fox, that's been the difference separating this team and the "bad teams." Not exactly a huge cushion of confidence.

Although if you assume this is a 'slump' rather than the norm, having Shesty and Fox save us some points is a good thing.

We have the second fewest shots on goal per game in the league right now- that simply can't be sustainable.

Note to self- I think Gallant has really emphasized good defensive zone play to start the season. One of the reasons Shesty's numbers are so good, aside from him being brilliant, is that the Rangers are doing a pretty damn solid job of clearing rebound opportunities and preventing nasty screens in front of him. That's a big improvement over last season, but the transition game, combined with some of our star forwards slumping, has obliterated the offense.

 

[will1066]

This team is currently suffering from systems issues and the Tinordi/Nemeth effect.

They are playing John Tortorella hockey right now. And this team simply isn't built for it, no matter how many Reaves and Goodrows you try to add. Their forecheck is atrocious.

The amount of times they went high and hard off the glass out of their own end last night was painful to watch. This is 100% a coaching staff systems thing. You have Adam Fox on the back end and Igor in net. Open it the f*** up, GG. Kak and Laf are never going to bang the body and retrieve pucks. The only time we should be flinging pucks into the neutral zone is if there's absolutely no other play to be made. We're doing it as a strategy


And the stretch pass/red line tip play has got to stop. Carry the f***ing puck in the zone. It was so bad yesterday that the person I was watching hockey with that just started watching this year was like "why the hell do they keep doing that play if they can never retrieve the puck?" It's painfully obvious. GG is trying to play Torts era hockey with a group of offensive minded rookies and finesse players.

Teams never gonna go anywhere if he doesn't open up the systems

Everyone goes high and hard off the glass only when they need to because of huge pressure. That pressure comes from blowing the first and even second attempt to break out of the zone. No one goes off the glass on purpose unless there's some alley oop play going on. The league knows we can't break out and can't retrieve pucks for shit so they play the probability game on us. We'll never forecheck because we can't win the puck back. Clog the neutral zone and prevent lateral passes, and you've got us flipping pucks 200 feet up and down the ice. Every team sends in two forecheckers on our D. They know we aren't the fastest team at moving out of our own zone. Every team stacks their guys on us in the neutral zone, so it's nearly impossible to skate through. Others have already stated, but Panarin and Mika cheat like hell because they want to avoid traffic. Fox hit Panarin in Seattle with a 75-foot stretch pass from the bottom of the circle on his side of the end zone to Panarin cherrypicking at the Seattle blue line. You don't think Panarin doesn't want to open it up? We beat Columbus clean because they wanted to run and gun with us. They have less structure than us.

 

[dumpin]

They have very little intensity, they look slow, especially Mika, maybe married life dont agree with him. The pair of Trouba and Miller needs to be broken up. If they are still bad with new partners, Drury is gonna have to earn his salary with some tough decisions.
The team just looks slow.

 

[will1066]

Although if you assume this is a 'slump' rather than the norm, having Shesty and Fox save us some points is a good thing.

We have the second fewest shots on goal per game in the league right now- that simply can't be sustainable.

Note to self- I think Gallant has really emphasized good defensive zone play to start the season. One of the reasons Shesty's numbers are so good, aside from him being brilliant, is that the Rangers are doing a pretty damn solid job of clearing rebound opportunities and preventing nasty screens in front of him. That's a big improvement over last season, but the transition game, combined with some of our star forwards slumping, has obliterated the offense.

Very, very true. Shesty had a lot of trouble with screens last year. He's now seeing the puck clean most of the time. Trouba has rebounded defensively. Miller has improved. I still think we collapse too much and leave too much room at the points when the other team is cycling but Shesty is at least seeing the shots. We've still given up tons of point-blank chances but I have noticed that rebound chances have decreased.

 

[LokiDog]

Although if you assume this is a 'slump' rather than the norm, having Shesty and Fox save us some points is a good thing.

We have the second fewest shots on goal per game in the league right now- that simply can't be sustainable.

Note to self- I think Gallant has really emphasized good defensive zone play to start the season. One of the reasons Shesty's numbers are so good, aside from him being brilliant, is that the Rangers are doing a pretty damn solid job of clearing rebound opportunities and preventing nasty screens in front of him. That's a big improvement over last season, but the transition game, combined with some of our star forwards slumping, has obliterated the offense.

I hear what you're saying, but technically, can't it be? Someone has to finish in that spot. Right now this team has no offensive potency whatsoever and there isn't a whole lot to point towards it gaining any. Panarin and Fox are already point per game. Kreider has had a hot start - he'll actually cool off, since he's not breaking out as a 45 goal scorer suddenly. None of the D have serious puck moving ability to start improving on that weak transition game. The kids at forward, you continue to keep your hopes high and watch each game for the breakout performance, but at this point relying on them to solve any of this would be folly. I'd like to see Jones back up. And we need a center who is a net positive regardless of his relationship with the Breadman.

 

[Salsa Shark]

Look at it the other way. Teams like Canadiens, Blackhawks, Coyotes, and Kraken have been brought up in this thread as being bad teams. Give them Shesty and I'm sure all of them would have stolen a few wins too. Shesty is literally the one guy, other than Fox, that's been the difference separating this team and the "bad teams." Not exactly a huge cushion of confidence.

Meanwhile Kreider is playing the best hockey of his career, Fox is the best defenseman in the NHL, and Panarin despite being called by some, "our worst player 5 on 5" has 10 p in 10 games.

 

[Fitzy]

I hear what you're saying, but technically, can't it be? Someone has to finish in that spot. Right now this team has no offensive potency whatsoever and there isn't a whole lot to point towards it gaining any. Panarin and Fox are already point per game. Kreider has had a hot start - he'll actually cool off, since he's not breaking out as a 45 goal scorer suddenly. None of the D have serious puck moving ability to start improving on that weak transition game. The kids at forward, you continue to keep your hopes high and watch each game for the breakout performance, but at this point relying on them to solve any of this would be folly. I'd like to see Jones back up. And we need a center who is a net positive regardless of his relationship with the Breadman.

Agreed on Jones, he or Reunanen deserve a chance.

As for where more offense is coming from?

Chytil is going to score more than 9 points this year. Strome should get at least 55 this season. Kakko and Laf SHOULD hit 35-40 points at bare minimum. If they don't with the minutes they are playing then we are screwed. Blais, Miller, Trouba will knock in a few.

The problem right now is that the kids aren't alright. Kakko hasn't been a fit on the Panarin line. The Chytil line has been putrid in transition.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Gallants teams have had pretty low event outputs except the last two seasons he was in Vegas. This might just be what to expect from his teams.

 

[will1066]

Meanwhile Kreider is playing the best hockey of his career, Fox is the best defenseman in the NHL, and Panarin despite being called by some, "our worst player 5 on 5" has 10 p in 10 games.

Yes. Kreider is playing the best hockey of his career. It's like he's thinking clearly out there without cobwebs in his brain. I hate to think what our record would be without all those power play goals. That's basically all of his offensive output so far. Fox is god-tier.

Panarin has 10 in 10. He's also at a career worst +/- (-5). He is shooting a career worst 10.5%. His Corsi is a career worst 56%, 1.4 points lower than his previous career worst. And I'm not even a stats guy. The eye test has shown that he makes completely boneheaded low percentage passes and gives more turnovers than scoring chances each game.

 

[RangerLifer]

Yes. Kreider is playing the best hockey of his career. It's like he's thinking clearly out there without cobwebs in his brain. I hate to think what our record would be without all those power play goals. That's basically all of his offensive output so far. Fox is god-tier.

Panarin has 10 in 10. He's also at a career worst +/- (-5). He is shooting a career worst 10%. His Corsi is a career worst 56%, 1.7 points lower than his previous career worst. And I'm not even a stats guy. The eye test has shown that he makes completely boneheaded low percentage passes and gives more turnovers than scoring chances each game.

Remember that this team is still getting used to a new coach. That usually takes about 20 games to really sink in. I'm not worried yet.

 

[Salsa Shark]

Yes. Kreider is playing the best hockey of his career. It's like he's thinking clearly out there without cobwebs in his brain. I hate to think what our record would be without all those power play goals. That's basically all of his offensive output so far. Fox is god-tier.

Panarin has 10 in 10. He's also at a career worst +/- (-5). He is shooting a career worst 10%. His Corsi is a career worst 56%, 1.7 points lower than his previous career worst. And I'm not even a stats guy. The eye test has shown that he makes completely boneheaded low percentage passes and gives more turnovers than scoring chances each game.

Agreed Kakko needs to leave the Pannarin line and yes Breads piled on the points the last few games you're right. Still I think my larger point is that guys are going to get hot and cold as time moves along and that we'll likely have Zib, panarin, and Fox as constants.

And although everyone loves the "if we didn't have an elite goaltender" line of thinking, the fact of the matter is we have one. Just like we did in the years 2008-2015. He's part of the club and can be called on to make up for other areas of weakness.

 

[will1066]

Remember that this team is still getting used to a new coach. That usually takes about 20 games to really sink in. I'm not worried yet.

Yeah, I hope so. It's not like I enjoy making my criticisms.

Panarin has 1 goal at even strength in 10 games. And I think that was the OT winner.

 

[will1066]

Agreed Kakko needs to leave the Pannarin line and yes Breads piled on the points the last few games you're right. Still I think my larger point is that guys are going to get hot and cold as time moves along and that we'll likely have Zib, panarin, and Fox as constants.

And although everyone loves the "if we didn't have an elite goaltender" line of thinking, the fact of the matter is we have one. Just like we did in the years 2008-2015. He's part of the club and can be called on to make up for other areas of weakness.

I'll keep hammering on this. Go top-heavy with Kreider-Panarin-Zib. If it fails, you at least minimize your damage footprint to one line instead of two. Move Hunt into the second line to complement Kakko on a forecheck cycle game with Strome playing the pivot. Hunt might not have the hands, but he'll probably give Kakko and Strome some time and space plus the puck. If you can put a grinder like Goodrow on the top line, you can try an effective grinder like Hunt on a line expected to provide offense.

 

[duhmetreE]

6-2-2 (7 games on the road) and you think they're turning into the Jets?

Yes. As in talent evaluation, development and roster. Not just this year... but over the past decade.

Nothing on offense. Feels like I'm watching the same offense for nearly a decade, Same issues, independent of roster or coaching staff.

Great defenders over the years. Long term results? What's to show for it?

Hence... what I said.

 

[Salsa Shark]

Yes. As in talent evaluation, development and roster.

Nothing on offense. Feels like I'm watching the same offense for nearly a decade,
Great defenders over the years.

Same issue going back generations

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'll keep hammering on this. Go top-heavy with Kreider-Panarin-Zib. If it fails, you at least minimize your damage footprint to one line instead of two. Move Hunt into the second line to complement Kakko on a forecheck cycle game with Strome playing the pivot. Hunt might not have the hands, but he'll probably give Kakko and Strome some time and space plus the puck. If you can put a grinder like Goodrow on the top line, you can try an effective grinder like Hunt on a line expected to provide offense.

Hunt....on the 2nd line? He's barely on the team...no thanks.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Yes. As in talent evaluation, development and roster. Not just this year... but over the past decade.

Nothing on offense. Feels like I'm watching the same offense for nearly a decade, Same issues, independent of roster or coaching staff.

Great defenders over the years. Long term results? What's to show for it?

Hence... what I said.

Honestly, every hockey game I watch is pretty much the same, Rangers or whoever, unless someone like McDavid is out on the ice. Really good forwards trying to beat really good defenders. I don't think this team does anything drastically different than any other team in the league. The offense looked better under Quinn but the team as a whole looks like they play better under Gallant. But I think it's too soon to come to any kind of a conclusion on this year's team. I'm glad they're banking points now, however they're doing it.