Therrien - New Season Edition

[Cole Caulifield]

It took Therrien 2 years to listen to what many of us have been screaming at him. It shouldn't have taken this long, but I'm liking the early results now that he finally has.

Eller should still get more PP time and DDs line is getting 2nd line minutes; other than those niggles, I'm not gonna complain. Long time coming, this Habs possession hockey thang.

If you think we could play this way 2 years ago, you were imagining players whom we hadn't acquired or whom hadn't developed into what they are yet.

The truth is that most of HF habs just wanted Flynn, DSP, DD, Emelin and Gilbert off the team and Therrien fired which would have simply just weakened the team for no reason.

Instead of pathetically and predictably trying to spin the situation into a "see, we were right all long" moment, this would be a good time to show a little humility and admit that MB/MT know better than us 99% of the time. I get that this is a hockey board and wild predictions for fun and outrageous claims are part of the norm, but one shouldn't believe too hard into the BS they're trying to sell.

EDIT : Just this post here... you say DD gets too much ice time. He's 14th out of 18th. Only Weise and the 4th line have played less than him ? He's 10th in PP ice time and #1 in PPP tied with AG and Petry. We have had great success playing that way. In fact, the ice time being spread out is one of the reason why we're playing with this much energy and are this relentless since no one is playing too much. It's hard to believe in your claim that you have been right for 2 years when the first thing you say after that is that DD's line is playing like a 2nd line. The concept of #1-2-3-4 lines is a bit outdated anyway in the way that you meant it.

 

[ECWHSWI]

If you think we could play this way 2 years ago, you were imagining players whom we hadn't acquired or whom hadn't developed into what they are yet.

The truth is that most of HF habs just wanted Flynn, DSP, DD, Emelin and Gilbert off the team and Therrien fired which would have simply just weakened the team for no reason.

Instead of pathetically and predictably trying to spin the situation into a "see, we were right all long" moment, this would be a good time to show a little humility and admit that MB/MT know better than us 99% of the time. I get that this is a hockey board and wild predictions for fun and outrageous claims are part of the norm, but one shouldn't believe too hard into the BS they're trying to sell.

reality : Therrien had the Habs playing this type of hockey in the shortened season, HE changed it to a dumb and chase "system" that didnt lead us to any more cups, went as far as saying "we're a grinding team". He was called out by some of his own players who said Habs should play a style that allows them to score more goals (Subban and DD among others) at the end of last season. Galchenyuk saying he wanted to play C also (kinda) forced his hand. Same for Ramsay hiring.

What is really pathetic actually is talking as if it was obvious it was MT plan to play that way this season all along.

If anything MT is lucky the players spoke their mind instead of just stop listening to the coach like it happens in a lot of teams.

Humility is something the coach clearly doesnt know, neither are the posters who spin every single thing into "MT is so awesome".

Just so you remember, your boy IS a liar (see Galchenyuk at wing), and YES he does throws players under the bus (see Eller and Sekac).

 

[Bryson]

If I'm not mistaken, Galchenyuk spoke to Bergevin (and likely Therrien) about wanting to play center, which is what spouted his prior agent's whining, subsequent termination and the delay in re-signing him. For those reasons, alongside Galchenyuk playing very well, I don't see Therrien moving him back to the wing. He may still bump Desharnais to the top line, but it won't be at Galchenyuk's expense.

Interesting. Every interview I've seen of Chucky he seems completely ambivalent about playing wing or center for the team. Curious if that's just for show or if that's how he really feels. Larionov did tell Chucky and his family that he should be patient and considering Larionov and Chucky spoke on a daily basis, apparently they spoke more often than his own wife, they must have had a real different opinion on things for him to fire his long time mentor.

Would really love to know what took place behind the scenes going from Bergy saying Chucky might never play center to an in person meeting saying he will play center. The deal did get done quickly once he did change agents.

Timeline:

May 15th - MB end of year presser
June 22nd - Larionov fired
June 23rd - Chucky hires Pat Brisson
June 26th - Draft day and apparent dinner meeting between Chucky and Therrien telling him to prepare over the summer because he would play center.
July 30 - Chucky signed new contract

From the events it did seem like Larionov wanted Chucky to be humble while Chucky wanted to progress faster. It would appear he took matters into his own hands and forced management's hand. If so gotta give Chucky credit for having a pair of stones and bodes well for the future of this team knowing our future #1C is this driven. We could easily have gone into this season with DD as top six center if Chucky had not made this move. There is a fine line between being a mentor and getting your client what they want.

 

[Wats]

- More puck possession 5 on 5 style from 12/13 again vs rope-a-dope
- Aggressive 3rd period lead protection
- less offsides/icings showing they worked on zone exit/enter
- Putting Galchenyuk at C and keeping him there
- Fighting temptations of playing Desharnais 16-20 min/game
- Not that many sending a message type moves bench young players

Aside from the powerplay, which is still looks terrible along with being a threat for goal against regardless of the 2 goals last game, I like this MT/coaching staff so far.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Timeline:

May 15th - MB end of year presser
June 22nd - Larionov fired
June 23rd - Chucky hires Pat Brisson
June 26th - Draft day and apparent dinner meeting between Chucky and Therrien telling him to prepare over the summer because he would play center.
July 30 - Chucky signed new contract

From the events it did seem like Larionov wanted Chucky to be humble while Chucky wanted to progress faster. It would appear he took matters into his own hands and forced management's hand. If so gotta give Chucky credit for having a pair of stones and bodes well for the future of this team knowing our future #1C is this driven. There is a fine line between being a mentor and getting your client what they want.

I'm curious about your timeline. How do you know that the bold part occurred on that day ? Has it been said somewhere ?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

reality : Therrien had the Habs playing this type of hockey in the shortened season, HE changed it to a dumb and chase "system" that didnt lead us to any more cups, went as far as saying "we're a grinding team". He was called out by some of his own players who said Habs should play a style that allows them to score more goals (Subban and DD among others) at the end of last season. Galchenyuk saying he wanted to play C also (kinda) forced his hand. Same for Ramsay hiring.

What is really pathetic actually is talking as if it was obvious it was MT plan to play that way this season all along.

If anything MT is lucky the players spoke their mind instead of just stop listening to the coach like it happens in a lot of teams.

Humility is something the coach clearly doesnt know, neither are the posters who spin every single thing into "MT is so awesome".

Just so you remember, your boy IS a liar (see Galchenyuk at wing), and YES he does throws players under the bus (see Eller and Sekac).

Reality : this is in no way the same hockey as the shortened season. It's just not the same. The forechecking is obviously different. In the shortened season we employed a very aggressive 2 man forecheck. This is not the case here.

as for the rest of the post, aside from the stuff that you have speculated on and passed it off as truth, no one was saying that "MT is so awesome". I am going to assume that you are referring to me saying MT/MB know better than us 99% of the time when you wrote that, but for me, this doesn't mean they're awesome. It goes without saying that every coach and GM should know better than fans on message boards. They have more experience, they spend more time on it, they have access to info we don't have... they should 99% of the time take better decisions than we can from the comfort of our homes. Doesn't mean I think they're awesome. I didn't say that. But I'm starting to think they are indeed awesome.

As for your character assassination of MT, I would say that it's truly a miracle that the entire org stands so united despite the coach being completely moronic and stupid, a liar, a coward, a guy who isn't humble. It's truly amazing that the team stays grounded and can break habs records despite such a boat anchor behind the bench. It's quite something..

 

[Bryson]

I'm curious about your timeline. How do you know that the bold part occurred on that day ? Has it been said somewhere ?

Yes. It was said that Chucky and Therrien had a meeting in a restaraunt discussing Chucky's future while Therrien was down in florida for the NHL draft.
Chucky said he enjoyed talking with Therrien in a more relaxed environment. Came from Chucky's own mouth during the pre-season golf tournament.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Why can't we just be happy that MT has finally made the necessary changes?

 

[BLONG7]

Why can't we just be happy that MT has finally made the necessary changes?

I am far from a fan of MT, but he seems to have made some changes, in his behavior. I am sure MB's hiring of Ramsay has something to do with this, and probably meetings with MB and his management group as to what they all see, etc so let's hope that MT along with the team, can grow and change...most of us on here, were critical of the FACT, that his stubborness was our frustration...to continue to do the same things over and over, and expect better or different results, never made any sense.

MT's best attribute, is having the players, dig in and never quit!! Gotta give the devil his due, I feel he would make the perfect asst coach not head coach, but let's hope we see the results continue, I would love to see our Habs have playoff success with the new MT at the helm.

 

[Hoople]

If you think we could play this way 2 years ago, you were imagining players whom we hadn't acquired or whom hadn't developed into what they are yet.

The truth is that most of HF habs just wanted Flynn, DSP, DD, Emelin and Gilbert off the team and Therrien fired which would have simply just weakened the team for no reason.

Instead of pathetically and predictably trying to spin the situation into a "see, we were right all long" moment, this would be a good time to show a little humility and admit that MB/MT know better than us 99% of the time. I get that this is a hockey board and wild predictions for fun and outrageous claims are part of the norm, but one shouldn't believe too hard into the BS they're trying to sell.

EDIT : Just this post here... you say DD gets too much ice time. He's 14th out of 18th. Only Weise and the 4th line have played less than him ? He's 10th in PP ice time and #1 in PPP tied with AG and Petry. We have had great success playing that way. In fact, the ice time being spread out is one of the reason why we're playing with this much energy and are this relentless since no one is playing too much. It's hard to believe in your claim that you have been right for 2 years when the first thing you say after that is that DD's line is playing like a 2nd line. The concept of #1-2-3-4 lines is a bit outdated anyway in the way that you meant it.

Spot on exactly!!!!!

 

[DangerDave]

Man this team looks good when they don't dump and chase every opportunity. So much more fun to watch too. It may have taken MT a while to realize the team is better suited to a counter attacking style where we carry or pass the puck across the blue line but now that he has, the team is 100 times better. Better late than never.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why can't we just be happy that MT has finally made the necessary changes?

I am.

 

[DangerDave]

Instead of pathetically and predictably trying to spin the situation into a "see, we were right all long" moment, this would be a good time to show a little humility and admit that MB/MT know better than us 99% of the time. I get that this is a hockey board and wild predictions for fun and outrageous claims are part of the norm, but one shouldn't believe too hard into the BS they're trying to sell.

I have no problem admitting they know much more than me and I underestimated MT. I do have to say that most people on here wanted to get away from the dump and chase and get back to the lockout year style of play which worked so well for us. Good on MT for going back to that style and making some great little adjustments in the lineup this year. Always had MB's back though.

 

[Wats]

If you think we could play this way 2 years ago, you were imagining players whom we hadn't acquired or whom hadn't developed into what they are yet.

The truth is that most of HF habs just wanted Flynn, DSP, DD, Emelin and Gilbert off the team and Therrien fired which would have simply just weakened the team for no reason.

Instead of pathetically and predictably trying to spin the situation into a "see, we were right all long" moment, this would be a good time to show a little humility and admit that MB/MT know better than us 99% of the time. I get that this is a hockey board and wild predictions for fun and outrageous claims are part of the norm, but one shouldn't believe too hard into the BS they're trying to sell.

EDIT : Just this post here... you say DD gets too much ice time. He's 14th out of 18th. Only Weise and the 4th line have played less than him ? He's 10th in PP ice time and #1 in PPP tied with AG and Petry. We have had great success playing that way. In fact, the ice time being spread out is one of the reason why we're playing with this much energy and are this relentless since no one is playing too much. It's hard to believe in your claim that you have been right for 2 years when the first thing you say after that is that DD's line is playing like a 2nd line. The concept of #1-2-3-4 lines is a bit outdated anyway in the way that you meant it.

Isn't that essentially what you're doing too? Whether you want to admit it or not, people did want Galchenyuk at C, DD out of the top 6, puck possession playstyle, etc. On the flip side, people also defended everything MT did saying he's doing the best with what he has possible. Literally anything can happen and people would people just spin it to have the results fit their agenda:

A) MT is just continuing to do the best with what he has, doesn't change anything. If team was good, they'll play good. All part of the plan.
B) MT changed/adapted what he's doing to improve/degrade team according/against to what some people wanted all along.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Isn't that essentially what you're doing too? Whether you want to admit it or not, people did want Galchenyuk at C, DD out of the top 6, puck possession playstyle, etc. On the flip side, people also defended everything MT did saying he's doing the best with what he has possible. Literally anything can happen and people would people just spin it to have the results fit their agenda:

A) MT is just continuing to do the best with what he has, doesn't change anything. If team was good, they'll play good. All part of the plan.
B) MT changed/adapted what he's doing to improve/degrade team according/against to what some people wanted all along.

No, I'm not essentially doing that since I'm not the one saying I have been right for 2 years by making statements such as :

It took Therrien 2 years to listen to what many of us have been screaming at him.

My post is a reaction to the above. So, no I'd not say it's the same thing at all ?

 

[Wats]

No, I'm not essentially doing that since I'm not the one saying I have been right for 2 years by making statements such as :

My post is a reaction to the above. So, no I'd not say it's the same thing at all ?

To me it seemed similar. You are saying your position was correct:

this would be a good time to show a little humility and admit that MB/MT know better than us 99% of the time. I get that this is a hockey board and wild predictions for fun and outrageous claims are part of the norm, but one shouldn't believe too hard into the BS they're trying to sell.

He didn't even elaborate what he's right about but you are still dismissing his agenda/opinion.

 

[Habs100]

We have an excellent roster. But our group of forwards still wouldn't blow anyone away on paper. Gotta give MT some credit for our total control, offensively and defensively, so far this year.

 

[belko]

- More puck possession 5 on 5 style from 12/13 again vs rope-a-dope
- Aggressive 3rd period lead protection
- less offsides/icings showing they worked on zone exit/enter
- Putting Galchenyuk at C and keeping him there
- Fighting temptations of playing Desharnais 16-20 min/game
- Not that many sending a message type moves bench young players

Aside from the powerplay, which is still looks terrible along with being a threat for goal against regardless of the 2 goals last game, I like this MT/coaching staff so far.

I've been a long-time critic of MT for his inability/unwillingness to adapt beyond tinkering with lines. I can't say which factor or combination of factors has allowed him to start changing but just like players get better over time maybe coaches do, too. It's clear there's a change to the style of play this year and the zone control/third lead aggressiveness are the two easiest signs to see.

Very encouraging!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Apart from the TO game, we haven't had a game with less than 30 shots. Moreover, we've allowed 30 shots only once. That's just awesome to see.

 

[Rapala]

Why can't we just be happy that MT has finally made the necessary changes?

Well it seems that those who were wrong all along need to salvage some sort of credibility.
Claiming we weren't in a position to make changes 2 yrs ago.
The coach was a doofus and his boss probably had to tell him NO MORE enough is enough.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

To me it seemed similar. You are saying your position was correct:

He didn't even elaborate what he's right about but you are still dismissing his agenda/opinion.

I think it would be equivalent if I had come into this thread and opened with "It's great to see that those who believed in our coaching staff were right all along." I think that would be the same then. And I would understand that people who have been critical of MT would have taken objection to that, even if I didn't really expand on what I was right about.

But you're saying that me understanding that MT/MB know better than me, than you, than all of us is me being right ? Basically, I didn't come in here and provoke this discussion with ridiculous braggadocio. That's the main difference here I would think. I see what you're trying to do here, but let's agree to disagree.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I guess this thread has begun morphing into a "who was wrong over the past two years" discussion... Okay, if people want to argue over that, it's up to you.

Personally, I'm just glad to see that changes have been made and we're playing much better hockey now. The advanced stats only backup what we've seen on the ice. The Montreal Canadiens are playing at a much higher level than they have since 2013 and the record is good to boot.

I'm not concerned with why the changes were made... I'm just glad they were.

 

[ColinO]

I guess this thread has begun morphing into a "who was wrong over the past two years" discussion... Okay, if people want to argue over that, it's up to you.

Personally, I'm just glad to see that changes have been made and we're playing much better hockey now. The advanced stats only backup what we've seen on the ice. The Montreal Canadiens are playing at a much higher level than they have since 2013 and the record is good to boot.

I'm not concerned with why the changes were made... I'm just glad they were.

Here here! Why doesn't everyone just say "nah nah nah nah nah" so that it's out of your system and get back to enjoying the ride we've had so far.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I guess this thread has begun morphing into a "who was wrong over the past two years" discussion... Okay, if people want to argue over that, it's up to you.

We could start with you

But in all seriousness, Therrien's leadership is at it's peak and so is team chemistry.What a nice group of players.This is why I think we are winning the cup this year.

 

[Rapala]

MT's been holding out on us has his pay raise kicked in or sonething?