Therrien - New Season Edition

[ECWHSWI]

You don't get it. Same thing apply in the po.... More goal make a win...

of all the 16 teams to enter the P.O. last season we were 16th in goals for....

 

[Mr Jackpot]

You keep repeating this
Its wrong
Stop
Pls stop

Seriously
Stop
Please

This is your last 2 posts, you bring nothing to the thread, no answers, no arguments, nothing.

And you still haven't answered this:

How does these 4 facts have anything to do with Therrien being a good or bad coach?

 

[Kriss E]

What's the point of looking at your other metrics if figuring well in those don't actually result in more wins ? Comfort fans in their ridiculous insecurities ?

Hmm..because you're making an analysis??..You don't leave things out, you look at every thing.

Looking just at regular season point totals is one metric. It doesn't tell you anything other than the team's record. An analysis is about the ''how''.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

yeah true, what matters now in Habsland is the regular season. fun to watch hockey ? doesnt matter... going all the way in the P.O. (cup) ? irrelevant...

I actually don't make up my mind based on shot differential or wins. I make up my mind based on eye test. But what I see on the ice and believe has very little relevance if not backed up by any metrics. There's obviously a metric that backs up my beliefs and it's the ultimate one : wins. Both in the regular season and playoffs (we figure well in playoffs wins over the past 2 season).

But yes, it's true that so far we haven't done the job in the playoffs. I want us to win the cup like everyone else. The results we have gotten in the playoffs so far have been decent, but certainly not great. I want greatness too. But for most teams it doesn't happen overnight. For it to happen we're going to need a bit more from everyone including the coach and GM. But it doesn't mean that everyone sucks. We're improving every year.

 

[OnTheRun]

You're seeing everything black and white, I never said the only metric, I said the best.

Just like the total points for a top 6 forward, it's not the only metric, but over 100+ games, the total points is the best metric to know if he's good offensively.

First, you have no idea what "black and white" mean.
Actually you did say the record was the THE ONLY WAY

The only way, we as fans, can judge if a coach is good or not, is by looking
at his record over a decent sample size (at least 6-7 years). There's no other
way we can judge if he's good or not because we're not qualified.

We think we are qualified, everyone think they know everything about hockey, but we
are clueless:

-we don't follow the team
-we don't know the players
-we have zero NHL experience
-and on and on

Having said that, here's Michel Therrien's record after he took over a team,
with before and after standings:

2003-04 Pittsburgh 30th in the league
2004-05 lock out
2005-06 Ed Olczyk is fired, Therrien take over
2007-08 Pittsburgh in the Cup finals

2011-12 Montreal 15th in the East
Therrien takes over
2012-13 Montreal 2nd in the East
2013-14 Montreal 100 pts
2014-15 Montreal 110 pts

I didn't say best way, I said the only way.

The only way for fans to judge if a coach is good or not, is by looking
at his record over a decent sample size.

-------------------------

You're not even following the discussion, it's so funny.

It all started with the "if we had a better coach, we would have more points in the standings" and you didn't agree with that.

You are the only one here stuck in that silly idea.

Most people here don't give a rat's ass about the President Trophy, so points in the standing is ****ing irrelevant as long you make the the playoffs (and btw we lost to a team who had less point than us in the standings last year. Something that should not happen in your world where the standings rules over EVERYTHING.)

 

[Kriss E]

You're seeing everything black and white, I never said the only metric, I said the best.

Just like the total points for a top 6 forward, it's not the only metric, but over 100+ games, the total points is the best metric to know if he's good offensively.

First, nobody is discussing whether he's good offensive or defensively. We're talking overall.
Second, it doesn't matter if you think it's the best (which is an opinion not a fact btw), what matters is that you only use this one metric.

That's not how you make an analysis.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Hmm..because you're making an analysis??..You don't leave things out, you look at every thing.

Looking just at regular season point totals is one metric. It doesn't tell you anything other than the team's record. An analysis is about the ''how''.

Except the proponents of advanced statistics look at only shot based metrics. It's the same stat served with a million different sauces. That doesn't exactly qualify as some deep analysis.

And any analysis start with looking at the results. Then you look at why you got those results if you don't already know, or don't understand why you got those results. I know why we are getting the results we are getting. I just disagree with you all on the why.

 

[Kriss E]

I actually don't make up my mind based on shot differential or wins. I make up my mind based on eye test. But what I see on the ice and believe has very little relevance if not backed up by any metrics. There's obviously a metric that backs up my beliefs and it's the ultimate one : wins. Both in the regular season and playoffs (we figure well in playoffs wins over the past 2 season).

Wait, are you saying we played well last 2 seasons?

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Most people here don't give a rat's ass about the President Trophy, so points in the standing is ****ing irrelevant as long you make the the playoffs (and btw we lost to a team who had less point than us in the standings last year. Something that should not happen in your world where the standings rules over EVERYTHING.)

Again you're not following the discussion, you're bumping a post about a different subject that we're discussing right now.

You're not following at all, re-read the last 50 posts.

 

[Kriss E]

Except the proponents of advanced statistics look at only shot based metrics. It's the same stat served with a million different sauces. That doesn't exactly qualify as some deep analysis.

Except nobody is just talking about advanced stats. Basics stats too. The eye test. People have also brought up actual systemic flaws in the game from watching the team play. That was greeted with ''you don't know that the coach is telling them to play this way'', which is true, but when it's repeated, over 2 years, I assume that it is.
And if it isn't, then it's even worse seeing how the coach can't relay his message properly.

So no, it's not just advanced stats.

 

[Daniels45]

I actually don't make up my mind based on shot differential or wins. I make up my mind based on eye test. But what I see on the ice and believe has very little relevance if not backed up by any metrics. There's obviously a metric that backs up my beliefs and it's the ultimate one : wins. Both in the regular season and playoffs (we figure well in playoffs wins over the past 2 season).

But yes, it's true that so far we haven't done the job in the playoffs. I want us to win the cup like everyone else. The results we have gotten in the playoffs so far have been decent, but certainly not great. I want greatness too. But for most teams it doesn't happen overnight. For it to happen we're going to need a bit more from everyone including the coach and GM. But it doesn't mean that everyone sucks. We're improving every year.

This 10 fold!! Why dont people see it this way? Why is it always the coaches fault if we dont win the SC? Why is is it always the coaches fault if we dont make it to the playoffs....I will tell you why...people tend to over evaluate the actual talent on this team and always have.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Wait, are you saying we played well last 2 seasons?

Where did he say that?

It's you that is saying we're playing bad.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Wait, are you saying we played well last 2 seasons?

We're tough to play against. We manage our energies well. We never give up and often come back in games where we don't score first. We play tight hermetic hockey when we get the lead. We don't get intimidated. We find ways to win when it matters. Our players play for each others.

In what land is this playing badly ?

Because you don't like the system we play ? Because we commit a lot of icings ? Jesus... could we be better ? Sure.. how much of it is system based and how much is player based is the real question.

 

[Daniels45]

We're tough to play against. We manage our energies well. We never give up and often come back in games where we don't score first. We play tight hermetic hockey when we get the lead. We don't get intimidated. We find ways to win when it matters. Our players play for each others.

In what land is this playing badly ?

Because you don't like the system we play ? Because we commit a lot of icings ? Jesus...

Exactly how I see it as well....People are disappointed that they aren't getting all they think they should be getting out of this team and start blaming MT. It all stems from people over evaluating the players on the team. Its that simple.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

DD on the first PP wave tonight, Therrien haters gonna love that.

 

[OnTheRun]

Again you're not following the discussion, you're bumping a post about a different subject that we're discussing right now.

You're not following at all, re-read the last 50 posts.

You just have trouble keeping up with your constant flip-flopping here mate.

 

[Nynja*]

This is your last 2 posts, you bring nothing to the thread, no answers, no arguments, nothing.

And you still haven't answered this:

Im done discussing anything with you because the only thing youve brought is "the habs dominated tampa" despite that having been proven false on multiple occasions, yet you KEEP repeating it.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

because the only thing youve brought is "the habs dominated tampa"

This is the only thing I brought to this thread? Not only you bring nothing but you're lying.

 

[Kriss E]

Where did he say that?

It's you that is saying we're playing bad.

He thinks we play well and he said he based himself on the eye test.

We're tough to play against. We manage our energies well. We never give up and often come back in games where we don't score first. We play tight hermetic hockey when we get the lead. We don't get intimidated. We find ways to win when it matters. Our players play for each others.

In what land is this playing badly ?

Because you don't like the system we play ? Because we commit a lot of icings ? Jesus... could we be better ? Sure.. how much of it is system based and how much is player based is the real question.

Yes we don't give up and play hard. I have no problem giving Therrien credit for it.
But there's way more to coaching than putting forth a good work ethic and when I see terrible positioning in our zone, horrible breakouts, the overuse of the long stretch pass, how we constantly give up the blueline to our opponents even when we outnumber them, the dump and chase system, the constant cycling until we pretty much lose the puck, then ya, I feel there's quite a lot of bad in our game.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

I see terrible positioning in our zone, horrible breakouts, the overuse of the long stretch pass, how we constantly give up the blueline to our opponents even when we outnumber them, the dump and chase system, the constant cycling until we pretty much lose the puck, then ya, I feel there's quite a lot of bad in our game.

We can't take your posts seriously when you use words like "horrible", "overuse", "constantly",.... You're seeing everything black and white.

The truth is sometimes the Habs has bad breakouts, sometimes they use the long stretch, sometimes the defensemen gives the blue line.

Why do they makes these mistakes? Because they don't execute well, Therrien has nothing to do with it.

And dump and chase is not a system, the dump and chase is a play.

 

[Kriss E]

We can't take your posts seriously when you use words like "horrible", "overuse", "constantly",.... You're seeing everything black and white.

The truth is sometimes the Habs has bad breakouts, sometimes they use the long stretch, sometimes the defensemen gives the blue line.

Why do they makes these mistakes? Because they don't execute well, Therrien has nothing to do with it.

And dump and chase is not a system, the dump and chase is a play.

I hate to say this to you, but nobody takes you seriously. You have zero interest in discussing anything, you just ramble on and refuse to criticize anything of Therrien.

Therrien was on 24CH saying how we are a grinding team and we need to dump and chase, then grind it out. He said that's how we're going to win. But hey, maybe Therrien doesn't even understand himself and doesn't know what he's saying too.

 

[groovejuice]

This is the only thing I brought to this thread? Not only you bring nothing but you're lying.

That's the second time that I've noticed you've called another poster a liar for disagreeing with you. For a newbie, you have a horrible attitude. Show some respect to your superiors, please.

I'm sure it's only a fluke you haven't been sanctioned.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

I see terrible positioning in our zone, horrible breakouts, the overuse of the long stretch pass, how we constantly give up the blueline to our opponents even when we outnumber them, the dump and chase system, the constant cycling until we pretty much lose the puck, then ya, I feel there's quite a lot of bad in our game.

Please explain your post:

-terrible positioning
-horrible breakouts
-overuse of the long stretch pass
-constantly give up the blueline to our opponents
-constant cycling until we pretty much lose the puck

Please please please explain how we do these 5 horrible things and end up with this record:

12-13 2nd in the east

13-14 100 pts

14-15 110 pts

13-14 Conference finals

14-15 dominating the best east team in the 2nd round


I already know your answer btw: Carey Price.

Yes it's because of Carey Price if we outplayed Tampa 5 on 5.

 

[Whitesnake]

That's the second time that I've noticed you've called another poster a liar for disagreeing with you. For a newbie, you have a horrible attitude. Show some respect to your superiors, please.

I'm sure it's only a fluke you haven't been sanctioned.

We are superiors? Wow...can I tell that to my wife?

 

[groovejuice]

We are superiors? Wow...can I tell that to my wife?

That's what I told mine. Hehe

And I don't have 50,000 posts. Most of them exceptional.