Therrien - New Season Edition

[Brainiac]

It did ?

Mise à jour le vendredi 10 avril 2015 à 16 h 11 HAE

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/h...diens-maple-leafs-lars-eller-jeff-petry.shtml

It's like you made up that entire timeline in your head in order to bash MT... including that idea coming from Ramsay...

And it didn't start when Petry joined the team, dmen were always encouraged to jump in but whatever...

Last year it was 100% safety first. Yes, you could see a dman join the rush from time to time, but it clearly was not a common option. The dmen were playing extra safe. Just in game #1 I think we saw a clear difference in that regard.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

FACT:
the Penguins were out of the playoffs at the time of Therrien's firing. This is a confirmable FACT because you could see the standings at the time Therrien was fired.

FACT:
The habs are constantly getting out shot by their opposition. This is a confirmable FACT because shots are an official statistic.

FACT:
The habs are constantly getting out chanced by their opposition. This is a confirmable FACT based on what constitutes a scoring chance is defined equally for all 30 teams.

FACT:
The habs were extremely reliant on Carey Price last season. This is a confirmable FACT based on Carey Price winning the Vezina, Hart, Jennings and Ted Linsday. The people who made those votes (be it the media (Hart), the GM's (Vezina), the stats (Jennings, which btw, should have been Price's alone, but shootouts counted as GA), or the players (Ted Lindsay)) all felt that the Habs would have been an atrocious team without Carey Price.

How does these 4 facts have anything to do with Therrien being a good or bad coach?

This is what im saying by speculation.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

FACT:
The habs are constantly getting out chanced by their opposition. This is a confirmable FACT based on what constitutes a scoring chance is defined equally for all 30 teams.

This is not actually a fact at all because any such statistics is entirely based on shot proximity metrics which is not actually what should constitute a scoring chance. For example, banging on a puck near the net when the goalie is square to the puck and blocks 100% of all angles... it's not a scoring chance to me but would record as multiple scoring chances for these sites who track that sort of stuff.

FACT:
The habs were extremely reliant on Carey Price last season. This is a confirmable FACT based on Carey Price winning the Vezina, Hart, Jennings and Ted Linsday.

Every coach who rely on their best players to win games is obviously dumb and bad.

Babcock can win cups with scrub teams obviously.

 

[Nynja*]

This is not actually a fact at all because any such statistics is entirely based on shot proximity metrics which is not actually what should constitute a scoring chance. For example, banging on a puck near the net when the goalie is square to the puck and blocks 100% of all angles... it's not a scoring chance to me but would record as multiple scoring chances for these sites who track that sort of stuff.

It is a fact when the conditions are consistent across all 30 teams.

Every coach who rely on their best players to win games is obviously dumb and bad.

Babcock can win cups with scrub teams obviously.

Theres reliance, and then theres "were ****ed if Price is hurt". Is Lundqvist a top 5 goaltender? Not many people would argue against it. Did the Rangers standings take a hit when he got hurt? nope. If we lost Price for 2 months, do you think our season would fare just as well?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Last year it was 100% safety first. Yes, you could see a dman join the rush from time to time, but it clearly was not a common option. The dmen were playing extra safe. Just in game #1 I think we saw a clear difference in that regard.

Can you read French ? The link and quote I provided shows that this is not the case. Petry joined the rush and supported the offense all the time last year as well. Please cease and desist ...

 

[ECWHSWI]

This is not actually a fact at all because any such statistics is entirely based on shot proximity metrics which is not actually what should constitute a scoring chance. For example, banging on a puck near the net when the goalie is square to the puck and blocks 100% of all angles... it's not a scoring chance to me but would record as multiple scoring chances for these sites who track that sort of stuff.



Every coach who rely on their best players to win games is obviously dumb and bad.

Babcock can win cups with scrub teams obviously.

anyone with half a brain know the difference between relying on your goalie all the time and relying on your best playerS is not the same.



but hey! we know how it works with the "unbiased crowd", MT can do no wrong, impossible, it's Mr Perfection. Everyone else who doesnt think that is an idiot.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

It is a fact when the conditions are consistent across all 30 teams.

If I tell you that a scoring chance is a player shooting a puck, then it will remain consistent across all 30 teams but still it will be a silly statistic.

Theres reliance, and then theres "were ****ed if Price is hurt". Is Lundqvist a top 5 goaltender? Not many people would argue against it. Did the Rangers standings take a hit when he got hurt? nope. If we lost Price for 2 months, do you think our season would fare just as well?

With Condon or Talbot, it wouldn't worry me all that much. With 2nd half of last season, and training camp Tokarski ? Yeah.... it would worry the heck out of me.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

but hey! we know how it works with the "unbiased crowd", MT can do no wrong, impossible, it's Mr Perfection. Everyone else who doesnt think that is an idiot.

re-read post #365, we are very very far from Mr Perfection.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

anyone with half a brain know the difference between relying on your goalie all the time and relying on your best playerS is not the same.

I mean this is just too much, so Price is alone huh?

Price doesn't have 18 teammates in front of him huh?

Subban didn't get nominated for the Norris huh?

Pacio didn't score 37 goals while finishing first in the league for +/- huh?

The Habs only rely on the goalie all the time huh?

In the first Habs victory, the Habs relied on Price, on Subban, on Pacio with 2 goals, on Galch with the game winning goal.

They relied on 4 of their best players.

So the Habs only rely on the goalie huh???????????

 

[Kriss E]

Every coach who rely on their best players to win games is obviously dumb and bad.

Babcock can win cups with scrub teams obviously.

You know very well that there's an overly reliance on Price. I mean, trying to downplay or flat out ignore it is just foolish, no offense.
Everyone knows this. Even the players are saying it:
"Obviously we'd like to score more, but as long as we're winning the games, that's what matters," Canadiens center Tomas Plekanec said Sept. 8 at the NHL Player Media Tour in Toronto. "A big part of that was [Price], which is the one thing honestly we want to get better at and play better in front of him."

Patches also said that they rely too much on Price after the game wednesday.

It's not just about Price. Pacioretty, Plek, Subban, Markov, there is talent on this team. That's why people aren't satisfied. We could play a much better game in front of him.

 

[Daniels45]

Lol more of the same talking points as usual....looks like the summer break hasnt helped some get a more reasonable view on things.

 

[Kriss E]

I mean this is just too much, so Price is alone huh?

Price doesn't have 18 teammates in front of him huh?

Subban didn't get nominated for the Norris huh?

Pacio didn't score 37 goals while finishing first in the league for +/- huh?

The Habs only rely on the goalie all the time huh?

In the first Habs victory, the Habs relied on Price, on Subban, on Pacio with 2 goals, on Galch with the game winning goal.

They relied on 4 of their best players.

So the Habs only rely on the goalie huh???????????

I'm pretty sure every one here knows that you need to score goals to win a game and goalies don't score outside the very rare empty net goal. So, I think you're smart enough to not take things so literal.

 

[Daniels45]

You know very well that there's an overly reliance on Price. I mean, trying to downplay or flat out ignore it is just foolish, no offense.
Everyone knows this. Even the players are saying it:
"Obviously we'd like to score more, but as long as we're winning the games, that's what matters," Canadiens center Tomas Plekanec said Sept. 8 at the NHL Player Media Tour in Toronto. "A big part of that was [Price], which is the one thing honestly we want to get better at and play better in front of him."

Patches also said that they rely too much on Price after the game wednesday.

It's not just about Price. Pacioretty, Plek, Subban, Markov, there is talent on this team. That's why people aren't satisfied. We could play a much better game in front of him.

And I think that's more on the players than the coaching staff. Its a psychological thing. No matter what the coaches preach, the player's psyche cant get it out of their heads that no matter what, Price is there in the end so they back off just a little, knowing hes there.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

And I think that's more on the players than the coaching staff.

I agree with your post and im so surprised because you're one the few people here that have that kind of thinking.

You're basically saying that there is a possibility that there's a game plan and sometimes the players on the ice are not executing well.

You're saying that there is a possibility that this team is not as talented offensively as some Habs fans thinks and that's the reason why we don't score many goals.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Players not executing a game plan is still coaching problem then. If its not the system as you believe then its Therriens inability to get it across. But then apparently to you guys Therrien has all players on the same page. So becomes circular. One argument doesnt lead to the next

 

[OnTheRun]

And I think that's more on the players than the coaching staff. Its a psychological thing. No matter what the coaches preach, the player's psyche cant get it out of their heads that no matter what, Price is there in the end so they back off just a little, knowing hes there.

Let assume what you said is true;
Isn't it the coach's job to make sure the players don't have an half-assed showing because Price is in the net?


Is it really that hard to realize that the quality of our play as a team is not at the level it should be?

 

[Kriss E]

And I think that's more on the players than the coaching staff. Its a psychological thing. No matter what the coaches preach, the player's psyche cant get it out of their heads that no matter what, Price is there in the end so they back off just a little, knowing hes there.

They didn't dump the puck for the past 2 years because Price is in nets. Price didn't decide to make Bouillon play regularly on the PP. He didn't tell Therrien to bench Subban with 5min left in the game when leading by a goal in order to play Murray more. The guys are pulling weak transitions because of Price.
The list goes on.

Now, if what you're saying is true, wouldn't we be giving up way more odd man rushes, breakaways and actually be more productive?? I mean, if they let go a bit because they know Price is there, wouldn't they focus on offense?
And even then, if that's been happening for 2 years, it makes the coach look even worse as he can't get his players to work well.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Players not executing a game plan is still coaching problem then.

I know all that already, it's always always always on the coach.

The players are perfect, they do nothing wrong.

I know all that, you have no idea how many times I read that on here, you're not the first.

 

[ECWHSWI]

And I think that's more on the players than the coaching staff. Its a psychological thing. No matter what the coaches preach, the player's psyche cant get it out of their heads that no matter what, Price is there in the end so they back off just a little, knowing hes there.

the coach is the one implementing the system, not the players. No excuses.

 

[Kriss E]

I agree with your post and im so surprised because you're one the few people here that have that kind of thinking.

You're basically saying that there is a possibility that there's a game plan and sometimes the players on the ice are not executing well.

You're saying that there is a possibility that this team is not as talented offensively as some Habs fans thinks and that's the reason why we don't score many goals.

Why are you just talking about offense? Let's say we are as mediocre as you say. How does this explain the terrible coverage and positioning of our 5 players in the defensive zone?

 

[Nynja*]

The past couple posts in here would make yesterdays jays/rangers ump be jealous over how inconsistent they are.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Is it really that hard to realize that the quality of our play as a team is not at the level it should be?

ok so it's not at the level it should be

You're saying because of our coach, we are not at the level we should be.

So if we had a better coach, these 4 things would've happened:

-in 12-13 we would have finished 1st in the east

-in 13-14 we would have finished with 110+ pts

-in 14-15 we would have finished 1st in the league by a very large margin

-over the last 3 years, we would have made more playoffs rounds than only 6.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

the coach is the one implementing the system, not the players. No excuses.

I agree

 

[Kriss E]

ok so it's not at the level it should be

You're saying because of our coach, we are not at the level we should be.

So if we had a better coach, these 4 things would've happened:

-in 12-13 we would have finished 1st in the east

-in 13-14 we would have finished with 110+ pts

-in 14-15 we would have finished 1st in the league by a very large margin

-over the last 3 years, we would have made more playoffs rounds than only 6.

Why are you only looking at one metric?

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

I know all that already, it's always always always on the coach.

The players are perfect, they do nothing wrong.

I know all that, you have no idea how many times I read that on here, you're not the first.

Typical. Cant formulate a counter argument. Par for this whole thread