Therrien - New Season Edition

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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
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Incredible the comment by Gallagher about still being able to play a possession game by chip n chasing....One thing is sure.....so far, Therrien still has the room going for him and they believe what he's preaching. At least, we have to give this to Therrien...he makes players believes in the system. To a point that when we win, it's because we played the system, and we lose is because we didn't play it. We actually have the perfect system to win our 82 games and our 16 games in the playoffs. The ONLY reason why it doesn't happen is SOLELY because players stopped playing it....This is how it sounds when Therrien speaks about it. Makes me laugh every single time.

You read and hear Gallagher talk about our team's speed, strength and pressure and you wonder if he's been traded. If we are a team who has all of that....and after we watch other teams play.....what do they have? Warp speed? Hulk strength? And Cooker pressure?

Yeah winning is indeed fun. And I really hope it keeps happening. 'Cause the rest isn't.
 

sergejean

Registered User
Dec 11, 2007
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Incredible the comment by Gallagher about still being able to play a possession game by chip n chasing....One thing is sure.....so far, Therrien still has the room going for him and they believe what he's preaching. At least, we have to give this to Therrien...he makes players believes in the system. To a point that when we win, it's because we played the system, and we lose is because we didn't play it. We actually have the perfect system to win our 82 games and our 16 games in the playoffs. The ONLY reason why it doesn't happen is SOLELY because players stopped playing it....This is how it sounds when Therrien speaks about it. Makes me laugh every single time.

You read and hear Gallagher talk about our team's speed, strength and pressure and you wonder if he's been traded. If we are a team who has all of that....and after we watch other teams play.....what do they have? Warp speed? Hulk strength? And Cooker pressure?

Yeah winning is indeed fun. And I really hope it keeps happening. 'Cause the rest isn't.

Well, to be fair pretty much every coach or player say the same thing after a loss: "We didn't play our game", we weren't committed for a full 60 minutes", "We got away from our game plan"

So Therrien and the players using the same cliché isn't really a surprise is it?

And with regards to the possession game, I heard Therrien in some interviews that they've made some adjustments to the game plan this year and that they are looking at playing more as a unit of 5, involving the d a little bit more and playing more of a possession game. I suspect however that the Habs brass don't measure possession with Corsi/Fenwick stats so some people on this board will likely be up for disappointment.
 

Lebowski

El Duderino
Dec 5, 2010
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Well, to be fair pretty much every coach or player say the same thing after a loss: "We didn't play our game", we weren't committed for a full 60 minutes", "We got away from our game plan"

So Therrien and the players using the same cliché isn't really a surprise is it?

And with regards to the possession game, I heard Therrien in some interviews that they've made some adjustments to the game plan this year and that they are looking at playing more as a unit of 5, involving the d a little bit more and playing more of a possession game. I suspect however that the Habs brass don't measure possession with Corsi/Fenwick stats so some people on this board will likely be up for disappointment.

"We want to play a better possession game, but it likely won't translate into anything tangible".

Yeah, I'd like a little more than that to not be disappointed.
 

Nynja*

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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=782572

Do people care about all that, though? Will some of the posters that have been rambling on this thread for the last couple of weeks at least acknowledge that there's a problem somewhere? I doubt it. So why bother? If it gives the false sense of being "right" to some people, whatever floats their boat. I predict 3 months from now, we'll be back at square one, saying "but look our record!". Context be damned.

And those quotes are in regards to game 1 against the Leafs, after we were all told that "the habs would work to do a better job playing a possession game"...imagine last season.
 

sergejean

Registered User
Dec 11, 2007
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"We want to play a better possession game, but it likely won't translate into anything tangible".

Yeah, I'd like a little more than that to not be disappointed.

Me too. However, I believe that each team have their own "in-house" analytic and that it is way more complex than attempted shots on goal. So in other words, I think it is quite possible to have our team playing overall better even though it's not necessarily reflected in the attempted shots results.
 

Lebowski

El Duderino
Dec 5, 2010
17,607
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Me too. However, I believe that each team have their own "in-house" analytic and that it is way more complex than attempted shots on goal. So in other words, I think it is quite possible to have our team playing overall better even though it's not necessarily reflected in the attempted shots results.

Playing better would be a start.

I don't mean to say that Corsi means a heck of a lot on its own. But for me it only validates the obvious deficiencies many of us have observed over the last two seasons.

If the team manages to better control the flow of the game, limit high-danger scoring chances on Price, and generally push the play forward like I know this group of guys is talented enough to do... You won't hear me complaining.
 

Apoplectic Habs Fan

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Aug 17, 2002
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Me too. However, I believe that each team have their own "in-house" analytic and that it is way more complex than attempted shots on goal. So in other words, I think it is quite possible to have our team playing overall better even though it's not necessarily reflected in the attempted shots results.

It is possible to play better than the analytics say but people arent just using the stats. And people arent just using one metric like shots. Almost all metric which arent Price related are bad. Imagine how much worse MTL would look simply without Prices puckhandling. He is their second best breakout option next to Subban

The eye test is confirming the analytics.
 

Brainiac

Registered Offender
Feb 17, 2013
12,709
610
Montreal
Before game #1, I was listening to 98,5 and they talked about Therrien now being willing to let a defensemen join the rush more often. And indeed we saw Markov and Petry doing it a few times during the game.

That idea came from out west, I believe. We saw Calgary doing it often last year. And Chicago also let Keith join the rush often. Over here, there's Ottawa, but that's more about Karlsson than about a system.

Now, what I find truly astonishing is that it takes these guys a whole freaking year (and a new assistant) to realize that something being done elsewhere works. And we have exactly the guys to make it work. Why the hell does it take a year to implement such a simple concept? Should have started as soon as we got Petry last year. :banghead:
 

sergejean

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Dec 11, 2007
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Absolutely there is room for improvement. The good news is that the team has been winning consistently the past 2 years. As more players grow into their new role, I'm confident that the W will also look overall more convincing.
 

Apoplectic Habs Fan

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Absolutely there is room for improvement. The good news is that the team has been winning consistently the past 2 years. As more players grow into their new role, I'm confident that the W will also look overall more convincing.

I agree for simple fact is they cant really look worse
 

Nynja*

Guest
I agree - things cannot get worse....in the bizarro world where results are meaningless.:shakehead

Yes, because we played a great game against the Toronto Marlies wednesday night, we absolutely dominated that AHL team...wait, no, we didnt, we were out shot, out chanced, out possessed, and we had to get bailed out by Price...AGAIN, but who cares, that doesnt matter, we won, and all that matters is da record.

Just another win for Therrien, and thats all that matters, and Price should be thanking Therrien for his .973 sv%
 

Cole Caulifield

Registered User
Apr 22, 2004
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Before game #1, I was listening to 98,5 and they talked about Therrien now being willing to let a defensemen join the rush more often. And indeed we saw Markov and Petry doing it a few times during the game.

That idea came from out west, I believe. We saw Calgary doing it often last year. And Chicago also let Keith join the rush often. Over here, there's Ottawa, but that's more about Karlsson than about a system.

Now, what I find truly astonishing is that it takes these guys a whole freaking year (and a new assistant) to realize that something being done elsewhere works. And we have exactly the guys to make it work. Why the hell does it take a year to implement such a simple concept? Should have started as soon as we got Petry last year. :banghead:

It did ?

« Ça m'a pris un peu de temps pour comprendre précisément quel style de jeu on attendait de moi, explique Petry. On m'encourage à m'impliquer à l'attaque. Je me concentre là-dessus et je suis bien heureux. »
Mise à jour le vendredi 10 avril 2015 à 16 h 11 HAE

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/h...diens-maple-leafs-lars-eller-jeff-petry.shtml

It's like you made up that entire timeline in your head in order to bash MT... including that idea coming from Ramsay...:shakehead

And it didn't start when Petry joined the team, dmen were always encouraged to jump in but whatever...
 

Nynja*

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Yeah, they're encouraged to join the rush, but if they screw up joining the rush, they get stapled to the bench.

Petry is an above-average NHLer who doesnt really screw up many plays, but I've never really seen him take overly risky plays either. Compare that to PK, who is an elite NHL player, who doesnt really screw up many plays, but is apt to take the high risk plays, and may sometimes screw them up. We've seen him get benched...

When the response from your coach for screwing up is being benched (or if possible, demotion to Hamilton, which is why Tinordi is absolutely ****ing broken, possibly beyond repair), you tend to NOT think about joining the rush. Petry, at that point, had been around for what? a month?


Not to mention that quote was taken at the end of the season. We all know that MT, for whatever reason, decided to change "da gameplan" for the playoffs.
 

Compile

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Feb 27, 2008
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In an Igloo
Yeah, they're encouraged to join the rush, but if they screw up joining the rush, they get stapled to the bench.

Petry is an above-average NHLer who doesnt really screw up many plays, but I've never really seen him take overly risky plays either. Compare that to PK, who is an elite NHL player, who doesnt really screw up many plays, but is apt to take the high risk plays, and may sometimes screw them up. We've seen him get benched...

When the response from your coach for screwing up is being benched (or if possible, demotion to Hamilton, which is why Tinordi is absolutely ****ing broken, possibly beyond repair), you tend to NOT think about joining the rush. Petry, at that point, had been around for what? a month?


Not to mention that quote was taken at the end of the season. We all know that MT, for whatever reason, decided to change "da gameplan" for the playoffs.

Tinordi is broken not because of MT, but for the sole reason he's the same player he was in juniors. He hasn't evolved at all nor progressed.

I don't like MT but I can't blame him for a never-will-be player.
 

Mr Jackpot

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Mar 16, 2013
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Montreal
- Putting Bouillon on the PP for 2 years in a row without any kind of results and while having tons of better options.

- Putting the same actors and strategy on the PP 95% of the time for 2 years and expecting better results.

- Not putting once your 5 best offensive players on the PP at the same time (switching lines) even when the game is on the line in the PO.

- For 3 full years plus even last game : Playing Desharnais more than Galchenyuk and playing DD ahead of Galchy as your "go-to-guy" offensively and on the PP.

- Killing a very good offensive line (The EGG line) for no good reasons. Killing it was one thing, but never put it back together even if this team sucked offensively for many many stretches. Not to mention all those dumbass experiment that resulted in nothing.

- Killing the Galchenyuk experiment at center last year despite a good start....and we know the end results was that our top 2 center didn't do the job in the PO AND Galchenyuk was nowhere to be found since he got back on the wing. Lost his confidence. (And Therrien lying to the media saying it was Chucky's decision while it wasn't)

- Not giving any kind of real chances to young players not named Gallagher. Eller still never got his even in the PO where he was on fire....took Galchy 3 years to get to center. Beaulieu is still use as a bottom D. Sekac was bench first chance he get. Tinordi got no confidence. Bournival, Andrighetto, De La Rose and others has been used in situations they can't succeed.

- Playing crappy players way too much : Gonchar, Bouillon, Armstrong, Moen, Desharnais, Gionta, Emelin, Gorges, Murray, Weise, Bourque and so on.

- Accepting new players without knowing how to use them : Sekac, Briere, PAP, Weaver and even Vanek for example.

- After 3 full years, he still uses the groundwork made by Martin and Cunneyworth. There's not any new approach, no new core line-up...he just add-up from what those two coaches did.

- Still pointing fingers in his Press conference, sometimes he even trashed some on his own players (Remember Sekac and Eller last year? Or White). But on the other hand, he's never accountable for anything, never take blame and even challenge the medias when some of his bad move came up.

- Took 3 years for Plekanec to get a sniff at playing with Pacioretty cause Therrien always seems to go back for Pacioretty-DD combo, which never been a really dominant line. Productive but a long shot from being dominant.

- Doing really stupid in-games mistakes like not sending 2 center in the D-zone for a crucial face-off with 30 sec. left. Placing 3 very small players on the same line. Sending Martin St-Pierre on a crucial PP. Sending PAP on the point on the PP and he scored a goal just to never tried that again. Not taking out your goalie with 2 minutes left in the game and being down 3-1...and say publicly that it wasn't worth it...

- Unable to control his emotions. It's really easy to get inside Therrien's head. Saw it against Ottawa ('13) in the PO, saw it again against The Rangers in the PO. He can get really mad and stop coaching, we see that often.

- Having a system where player are scared to try the high risk/high rewards play, killing the creativity of some of his best players. Skilled players have to play like grinders. Young rookies have a hard times getting their confidence high. Most players that leave Therrien's team mostly all said this.

- In 3 years now, we are yet to see a top 6 line that is genuine. A top 6 line that actually is dominant. We switch lines, try some of the most unsustainable line-up like Weise on the top 6 but in the end, we never even had ONE top 6 line that we can rely on and keep together for more than 10 games. Even when we got Vanek, he wasn't able to put a dominant line.

And i can go on and on and on and on.....it's all over the place. I can go with his time in Pittsburgh when he trashed his whole defense-corps, when he prone violent retributions, how he used Ouellet.......

You should ask yourself....How a coach can go from the Stanley Cup finals to being fired 6 months later?
He was supposedly next in line in Minnesota when he got hired, but that team went with another coach when the time come.
He was on l'Anti-Chambre before getting back behind a bench....what took so long?

How a coach get to the Stanley Cup Finals, then 6 months later get fired and despite TONS of coaching changes, got unemployed for 4 years.
Therrien said it himself (and was really proud of it).....it was the first time a team actually hired him for HC job in the NHL....got all the other jobs a little by default, he said exactly that himself.

This post is amazing on so many levels, 90% of this post is not facts and just speculation. And not only speculation but there's ton and ton of false informations, and you expect people to believe them.

In 3 years now, we are yet to see a top 6 line that is genuine. A top 6 line that actually is dominant.


^^this part is the pinnacle of the whole post. You never ever realize during the last 3 years that the Habs doesn't have the offensive talent to have a dominating top 6.

killing the creativity of some of his best players

^^this part is just showing how you absolutely didn't follow the Habs for the last 3 years:

Subban has had high numbers offensively both in regular seasons and in the playoffs, and he's been nominated twice for the Norris.

Pacio has had his highest numbers ever with 39 and 37 goals while becoming one the best defensive forwards in the game

...How does Therrien kill the creativity of his best players, please explain how

Crosby won the Art Ross trophy at 20 years old while having his highest point total in his career with 120 pts. Under Michel Therrien.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW DOES THERRIEN KILL THE CREATIVITY OF HIS BEST PLAYERS, PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE.

EXPLAIN

And also explain why do you use false informations to prove your point.
 

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
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Montreal
- Accepting new players without knowing how to use them : Sekac, Briere, PAP, Weaver and even Vanek for example.

My god how do you know that he doesn't know how to use them???? This is 100% speculation that is not based on facts. You really think that behind your computer screen you know how to use Sekac, Briere, PAP, Weaver and even Vanek and Therrien doesn't know?

Are you serious?

The whole post is gold. And it's a reflection of how far a fan can go to prove a point.
 

Rapala

Registered User
Mar 29, 2013
42,613
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Montreal
And those quotes are in regards to game 1 against the Leafs, after we were all told that "the habs would work to do a better job playing a possession game"...imagine last season.

The difficulty in overhauling a game plan is living with the mistakes made during the transition.
MT lacks the patience to see it through IMO.
Most recently we played two open style games vs Ottawa. We actually used a controlled breakout more than once! We looked very good except that every defensive breakdown ended up in our net.
MT will not be looking for a repeat.:laugh:
 

Apoplectic Habs Fan

Registered User
Aug 17, 2002
30,411
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My god how do you know that he doesn't know how to use them???? This is 100% speculation that is not based on facts. You really think that behind your computer screen you know how to use Sekac, Briere, PAP, Weaver and even Vanek and Therrien doesn't know?

Are you serious?

The whole post is gold. And it's a reflection of how far a fan can go to prove a point.

The classic "you are not the coach, so cant know anything" response.

Thats gold as well.
 

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
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The classic "you are not the coach, so cant know anything" response.

Thats gold as well.

No because when you need to prove something, not just in hockey but in anything, you need to provide facts and not pure speculation.

Many people here want to prove that Therrien is a bad coach and every arguments is not based on facts.
 

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
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for exemple:

Habs are 23rd in shots against: fact

Habs are 23rd in shots against all because of Michel Therrien: speculation
 

Lebowski

El Duderino
Dec 5, 2010
17,607
5,271
for exemple:

Habs are 23rd in shots against: fact

Habs are 23rd in shots against all because of Michel Therrien: speculation

Speculation? I'd say correlation.

Aren't you the guy that said Phoenix would be in playoff contention would they have the best coaching staff in the league? How can you now pretend that Therrien's impact on the team's play style and thus underlying numbers aren't so much related now?
 

Nynja*

Guest
No because when you need to prove something, not just in hockey but in anything, you need to provide facts and not pure speculation.

Many people here want to prove that Therrien is a bad coach and every arguments is not based on facts.

FACT:
the Penguins were out of the playoffs at the time of Therrien's firing. This is a confirmable FACT because you could see the standings at the time Therrien was fired.

FACT:
The habs are constantly getting out shot by their opposition. This is a confirmable FACT because shots are an official statistic.

FACT:
The habs are constantly getting out chanced by their opposition. This is a confirmable FACT based on what constitutes a scoring chance is defined equally for all 30 teams.

FACT:
The habs were extremely reliant on Carey Price last season. This is a confirmable FACT based on Carey Price winning the Vezina, Hart, Jennings and Ted Linsday. The people who made those votes (be it the media (Hart), the GM's (Vezina), the stats (Jennings, which btw, should have been Price's alone, but shootouts counted as GA), or the players (Ted Lindsay)) all felt that the Habs would have been an atrocious team without Carey Price.
 
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