Therrien - New Season Edition

[Habs]

Someone should lose their job after that PP performance last night alone.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This 10 fold!! Why dont people see it this way? Why is it always the coaches fault if we dont win the SC? Why is is it always the coaches fault if we dont make it to the playoffs....I will tell you why...people tend to over evaluate the actual talent on this team and always have.

This is the 2nd strawman you've made in this thread.

Nobody blames the coach for everything. That's not what's at issue here. What's at issue is the fact that our coach employs bad systsems and manages the roster poorly. These decisions show up in our possession numbers and it's been that way throughout his career.

Nobody has claimed this roster is perfect. It's just that he doesn't make the roster we have better, he makes it worse. The fact that Price largely mitigates the coaching problems we have doesn't change the fact that we have a coaching problem.

As for us losing the SC because of the coach... it's a possiblity that he could cost us a championship, that is true. He may have cost the Pens one in '08 and would've costed them one in '09 had he not been fired. He's bad enough that he can take a good team and put them out of the playoffs and that's what would've happened with us these past two years had it not been for Godlike goaltending.

We've got an average group of forwards, a great defense corp and best in league goaltending. I don't think it's overevaluating the team to say that they should be playing much better than they have. No way they should be bottom third everywhere the way they have been.

 

[Hoople]

It only took 2-3 yrs for a certain someone to recognize this needed to happen...the same guy who didn't want Chucky at centre, but oh well...

Let's just Carey on...

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Would you have used the same excuse for Chucky not doing well on faceoffs last season? That he should have been used at C the season before?

You have the luxury of sitting behind a screen and looking at everything after the fact with no responsibiity for your words or actions. Meanwhile, well, no reason to say it at all.

The Habs are a different team with players learning new roles and for that Therrien is excoriated for starting the season with a 2-0 record.

(mod)

Habs 2-0. Love it. Go Habs Go.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's great to see Eller further integrated as part of the team.

I'm still thinking he should be playing center. Not because he can't grow into the wing position but because when it comes to crunch time we're going to need another center capable of handling those tougher minutes.

 

[Milhouse40]

I will put this right here:

1 - The only forwards to have play less than Galchenyuk at 5-on-5 are DSP, Flynn and Mitchell. All the other forward have more ice-time at 5-on-5.

2- If we look at total ice-time, Galchenyuk is #13 out of 18 on the team.

3- Tomas Fleaischmann have more ice-time than Galchenyuk so far...

Totally normal....

 

[Ezpz]

I'm still thinking he should be playing center. Not because he can't grow into the wing position but because when it comes to crunch time we're going to need another center capable of handling those tougher minutes.

He's still taking a lot of draws and has the best faceoff % on our team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He's still taking a lot of draws and has the best faceoff % on our team.

It's not the draws I'm worried about. It's the harder minutes come playoff time.

 

[Ezpz]

It's not the draws I'm worried about. It's the harder minutes come playoff time.

Doubt he'll forget how to play center. He was covering Chucky yesterday every time he got lost defensively on the ice.

 

[Kriss E]

Doubt he'll forget how to play center. He was covering Chucky yesterday every time he got lost defensively on the ice.

That's not his point. Eller on the wing with Galchenyuk isn't going to be a defensive line. LG is worried that our current 3rd line just isn't strong defensively. We don't have a 3rd line to do the defensive grunt work like Eller's over the past 2 seasons.

However, we were very so often stuck in our zone last year. If we can play a better possessive game, reduce the amount of shots, chances, defensive zone starts, then maybe having that extra strong defensive line isn't as necessary.

 

[Ezpz]

That's not his point. Eller on the wing with Galchenyuk isn't going to be a defensive line. LG is worried that our current 3rd line just isn't strong defensively. We don't have a 3rd line to do the defensive grunt work like Eller's over the past 2 seasons.

However, we were very so often stuck in our zone last year. If we can play a better possessive game, reduce the amount of shots, chances, defensive zone starts, then maybe having that extra strong defensive line isn't as necessary.

I don't think DD will be here after the deadline and DLR or a new player will be playing third line center.

 

[Brainiac]

So, now Therrien finally got the lines correct with Galchenyuk at center on an offensive line.

Maybe we can expect a more logical TOI distribution somewhere in 2016?

Seriously, if they fix the PP and Therrien manages DD's and Markov's minutes a little better, I'll be a happy camper. The team looks much better this year.

 

[Rapala]

Someone should lose their job after that PP performance last night alone.

Was it my imagination or did it get worse after the time-out?
Did anyone notice our zone entry was terrible when a Dman tried to carry the puck in?
We still don't hit the line in numbers with speed which is what the good PP's have in common.
Defenders tend to back off some when two or three skaters are bearing down. Not so much when two players are flitting around the blue line while one tries to carry or dump.

 

[Whitesnake]

I will put this right here:

1 - The only forwards to have play less than Galchenyuk at 5-on-5 are DSP, Flynn and Mitchell. All the other forward have more ice-time at 5-on-5.

2- If we look at total ice-time, Galchenyuk is #13 out of 18 on the team.

3- Tomas Fleaischmann have more ice-time than Galchenyuk so far...

Totally normal....

Of course it's not normal....AFTER 20 GAMES. But when stats could TOTALLY change from game 2 to game 3...it means you KNOW it's way too early to judge.

Why do I say that? It's because if DD would be in Galchy's situation now...like not a lot of ES time, you know what the comment would be..."Just wait....he'll slowly but surely go back at being Therrien's puppy again and will catch everybody in no time..." But now...strangely.....nobody says that. What we're seeing after game 2 WIL be reality for the rest of the year. Not normal to say that now. Not normal to say that 1 guy is 2nd, 3rd, 4th, without mentioning that some are separated by couple of seconds....Yeah, Galchy has more than seconds separating himself from DD...but again, that's game 2. Already a big step that Galchy is playing C....step by step people...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Doubt he'll forget how to play center. He was covering Chucky yesterday every time he got lost defensively on the ice.

Again, I'm not worried about him forgetting how to play, I'm worried about DD on the 3rd. I'm just skeptical about the lines. We'll see.

Of course it's not normal....AFTER 20 GAMES. But when stats could TOTALLY change from game 2 to game 3...it means you KNOW it's way too early to judge.

Why do I say that? It's because if DD would be in Galchy's situation now...like not a lot of ES time, you know what the comment would be..."Just wait....he'll slowly but surely go back at being Therrien's puppy again and will catch everybody in no time..." But now...strangely.....nobody says that. What we're seeing after game 2 WIL be reality for the rest of the year. Not normal to say that now. Not normal to say that 1 guy is 2nd, 3rd, 4th, without mentioning that some are separated by couple of seconds....Yeah, Galchy has more than seconds separating himself from DD...but again, that's game 2. Already a big step that Galchy is playing C....step by step people...

We waited 3 years for it though... Step by step? More like a reeeeally slow crawl.

 

[phoque taupe]

 

[jaffy27]

Again, I'm not worried about him forgetting how to play, I'm worried about DD on the 3rd. I'm just skeptical about the lines. We'll see.

We waited 3 years for it though... Step by step? More like a reeeeally slow crawl.

Most ex NHLer's turned broadcaster have said Galchenyuk was not ready for Center duty in NHL even if he had put up good numbers, it was the defensive side of the game that he needed to learn....Bergevin, Dudley and Therrien knew this. Galchenyuk only played 1 1/2yrs of junior. He's only played 2 1/2 yrs in the NHL, (Lockout) and now he's a NHL centre and looking mighty good. Nobody knows the players better then management, if it took three NHL seasons to get em there, there's a reason that's probably beyond your and everybody else's comprehension.

I'm very pleased that Therrien is using Galchenyuk on that first wave of PP, very refreshing. DD actually played pretty decent last night, even if he is a little maget, this is probably why they balanced the lines a little more, especially when you're playing back to back...which btw I'm going to the game tonight

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Most ex NHLer's turned broadcaster have said Galchenyuk was not ready for Center duty in NHL even if he had put up good numbers, it was the defensive side of the game that he needed to learn....Bergevin, Dudley and Therrien knew this. Galchenyuk only played 1 1/2yrs of junior. He's only played 2 1/2 yrs in the NHL, (Lockout) and now he's a NHL centre and looking mighty good. Nobody knows the players better then management, if it took three NHL seasons to get em there, there's a reason that's probably beyond your and everybody else's comprehension.

Well I'll agree with you in so far as using DD as our number one over Galchenyuk was indeed beyond my and everyone else's comprehension. To the point where TSN analysts openly questioned what the hell he was doing (and this directly contradicts what you've said here.) Ray Ferraro and the entire panel openly wondered why we were doing things this way and Aaron Ward (God rest his soul) openly said that they consider hiring a new coach. So your argument doesn't really wash here.

Just because he has his "reasoning" for doing things, it doesn't mean it's a smart idea. And quite frankly it's hard to see how it was.

I'm very pleased that Therrien is using Galchenyuk on that first wave of PP, very refreshing. DD actually played pretty decent last night, even if he is a little maget, this is probably why they balanced the lines a little more, especially when you're playing back to back...which btw I'm going to the game tonight

Refreshing? Yeah, it'll be refreshing when he stops holding him back. We're not there yet.

Enjoy your time at the game!

 

[Milhouse40]

Of course it's not normal....AFTER 20 GAMES. But when stats could TOTALLY change from game 2 to game 3...it means you KNOW it's way too early to judge.

Why do I say that? It's because if DD would be in Galchy's situation now...like not a lot of ES time, you know what the comment would be..."Just wait....he'll slowly but surely go back at being Therrien's puppy again and will catch everybody in no time..." But now...strangely.....nobody says that. What we're seeing after game 2 WIL be reality for the rest of the year. Not normal to say that now. Not normal to say that 1 guy is 2nd, 3rd, 4th, without mentioning that some are separated by couple of seconds....Yeah, Galchy has more than seconds separating himself from DD...but again, that's game 2. Already a big step that Galchy is playing C....step by step people...

First, it's not like Galchenyuk hasn't play center before. Played 10-12 games last year for example. I know that 2 games isn't something that will translate in the future....

But as you say....step by step for Galchenyuk. So i would expect him to play big minutes against the weaker teams like Boston and Toronto and take a step back when we'll face teams like Tampa, Rangers, Hawks or Caps. (Probably be the other way around with Therrien)

You know that's not only DD....Weise and Fleischmann got more 5-on-5 ice-time than Galchy. Freaking Weise and Fleischmann. I would understand if there was injury, if players were in some sort of slump or if some players were on fire...but that's really not the case right now. And in my book, i wanna see Galchenyuk on the ice twice as much as these guys.

I saw it at the last game of the preseason.....normal it's only preseason
I saw it again against Toronto on the first nigut.....only one game, doesn't mean anything
I saw it again against Boston.....well, 2 games in 2 nights doesn't mean it's gonna be like that the whole season....

I agree with all of this....but now it's been 3 games in a row...let's hope we'll not see that for another 2-3 games.

 

[Lebowski]

Most ex NHLer's turned broadcaster have said Galchenyuk was not ready for Center duty in NHL even if he had put up good numbers, it was the defensive side of the game that he needed to learn....Bergevin, Dudley and Therrien knew this. Galchenyuk only played 1 1/2yrs of junior. He's only played 2 1/2 yrs in the NHL, (Lockout) and now he's a NHL centre and looking mighty good. Nobody knows the players better then management, if it took three NHL seasons to get em there, there's a reason that's probably beyond your and everybody else's comprehension.

That's such a weak argument, knowing Desharnais was used in a scoring role on the 1st line.

Assuming he got where he is today thanks to how he was handled over the last three years doesn't have much of a basis either. Galchenyuk looked good when used down the middle last year and was retrograded for no reason - to the benefit, once again, of DD. Following his demotion, his confidence was at an all-time low, he played some of his worst hockey since turning pro, and was a non factor late in the season and the playoffs.

Therefore, what if Therrien stunted Galchenyuk development? How can you know he wouldn't be even better right now had he been entrusted with a bigger role earlier in his career? Unless you have a time machine, you, nor any hockey pundit out there can answer that question.

And then there's the whole breaking up the EGG line that was on fire never to reunite them again situation, lying to the media about Galchenyuk "asking" to be moved back to the wing... Yeah, allow me not to put blind faith into the coaching staff. When I see something, I like to analyze it and make an opinion for myself.

 

[jaffy27]

Well I'll agree with you in so far as using DD as our number one over Galchenyuk was indeed beyond my and everyone else's comprehension. To the point where TSN analysts openly questioned what the hell he was doing (and this directly contradicts what you've said here.) Ray Ferraro and the entire panel openly wondered why we were doing things this way and Aaron Ward (God rest his soul) openly said that they consider hiring a new coach. So your argument doesn't really wash here.

Just because he has his "reasoning" for doing things, it doesn't mean it's a smart idea. And quite frankly it's hard to see how it was.

Refreshing? Yeah, it'll be refreshing when he stops holding him back. We're not there yet.

Enjoy your time at the game!

He had 3 points last night and could've had more, don't see how he's holding him back...saw lots of offensive creativity last night from that line, was nice to see.

This is not about DD usage but about Galchenyuk usage..Galchenyuk wasn't ready and I've heard panelist mention this more than once and if you're going to believe what them TSN panelist were saying about the DD usage than you can also believe them when they've praised Therrein in the past on how well he's coached the Habs. (You can't say they're lying here and at the same time they're telling the truth here to accomadate your argument).

Lack of options is the only sane reasoning I can see why DD was used so much in the past and whether we like it or not he did have a nice chemistry for a while with Pacioretty. It seems though that Pacioretty's skill level has surpassed DD's therefore the split up had to happen.

My wife's construction company has season tickets here so I get dibs on the Habs games since they are all Sens fans lol...I will indeed enjoy myself..

Go Habs!!!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Folks, I'm getting tired of deleting "whiners" vs "fanboy" type posts. If you have an argument to make about Therrien (supportive or critical) by all means post it. But let's stay away from the personal shots. If you want to argue on a personal level, do it via PM. Thanks!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He had 3 points last night and could've had more, don't see how he's holding him back...saw lots of offensive creativity last night from that line, was nice to see.

He's still not being played enough.

This is not about DD usage but about Galchenyuk usage.

You can't on the one hand say Galchenyuk wasn't ready and then not compare him to who we used as an alternative. Galchenyuk was the better choice in every way.

Galchenyuk wasn't ready and I've heard panelist mention this more than once and if you're going to believe what them TSN panelist were saying about the DD usage than you can also believe them when they've praised Therrein in the past on how well he's coached the Habs. (You can't say they're lying here and at the same time they're telling the truth here to accomadate your argument).

Galchenyuk's stats while he played at center shows that he was more than ready to play center.

Secondly, I don't know what panelists you were listening to but that's not what those guys said.

Third, you brought up the panelists as a means of supporting your argument. I merely showed that what you're saying wasn't really accurate. Ferraro and Ward both wondered what the hell MT was thinking as did others like MacGuire.

And finally, I don't rest my arguments on what those analysts say. I frequently disagree with them. If you're going to raise them as a means of supporting your arguments though, they should at least be arguing what you say they did. And that's not the case here.

Lack of options is the only sane reasoning I can see why DD was used so much in the past and whether we like it or not he did have a nice chemistry for a while with Pacioretty. It seems though that Pacioretty's skill level has surpassed DD's therefore the split up had to happen.

"Lack of options" is nonsense. We had better options even aside from Galchenyuk just like we had better options other than Cube. This argument of yours is a non-starter.

He made that decision because it was his CHOICE to do so. Why he chose to do it is (you're right) beyond me and everyone else. But he had other options.

My wife's construction company has season tickets here so I get dibs on the Habs games since they are all Sens fans lol...I will indeed enjoy myself..

Go Habs!!!

You're a lucky dog. Go Habs Go indeed!

 

[jaffy27]

That's such a weak argument, knowing Desharnais was used in a scoring role on the 1st line.

Assuming he got where he is today thanks to how he was handled over the last three years doesn't have much of a basis either. Galchenyuk looked good when used down the middle last year and was retrograded for no reason - to the benefit, once again, of DD. Following his demotion, his confidence was at an all-time low, he played some of his worst hockey since turning pro, and was a non factor late in the season and the playoffs.

Therefore, what if Therrien stunted Galchenyuk development? How can you know he wouldn't be even better right now had he been entrusted with a bigger role earlier in his career? Unless you have a time machine, you, nor any hockey pundit out there can answer that question.

And then there's the whole breaking up the EGG line that was on fire never to reunite them again situation, lying to the media about Galchenyuk "asking" to be moved back to the wing... Yeah, allow me not to put blind faith into the coaching staff. When I see something, I like to analyze it and make an opinion for myself.

.....

The Habs lied to the media.... they're on a need to know basis, and they didn't need to know, I mean when Subban praises Therrien, do you believe him or is he lying?? You gonna lose faith in Subban now??.....c'mon man!!

He was retrograted for no reason....ya...you surely have the inside scoop and know Galchenyuk better as a centre then the people who are paid to make these decisions and follow him on a daily basis.....are you hearing yourself?? Delusional is the word I'm looking for here.

And to accomadate a player to boot...and its DD, the HFboard nemesis, this keeps getting better and better. There's no denying that Therrien gives DD too much preferential treatment, the benefit of the doubt, but never at the expense of stagnating another players growth, especially your 6'2 franchise centre that was drafted by the currant GM. You're playing checkers when these guys are playing Chess.

Instead of setting up your future star center for failure with a lose lose situation that would probably destroy his confidence, you train him properly, mentor him properly (sounds like the Detroit Red Wings way) and put him in a situation to succeed, that my friend is leadership!!!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

.....

The Habs lied to the media.... they're on a need to know basis, and they didn't need to know, I mean when Subban praises Therrien, do you believe him or is he lying?? You gonna lose faith in Subban now??.....c'mon man!!

He was retrograted for no reason....ya...you surely have the inside scoop and know Galchenyuk better as a centre then the people who are paid to make these decisions and follow him on a daily basis.....are you hearing yourself?? Delusional is the word I'm looking for here.

And to accomadate a player to boot...and its DD, the HFboard nemesis, this keeps getting better and better. There's no denying that Therrien gives DD too much preferential treatment, the benefit of the doubt, but never at the expense of stagnating another players growth, especially your 6'2 franchise centre that was drafted by the currant GM. You're playing checkers when these guys are playing Chess.

Instead of setting up your future star center for failure with a lose lose situation that would probably destroy his confidence, you train him properly, mentor him properly (sounds like the Detroit Red Wings way) and put him in a situation to succeed, that my friend is leadership!!!

"Lying" may be a strong way to put it (though maybe not) but MT's statements were contradicted by Galchenyuk when he was asked about it.

 

[jaffy27]

He's still not being played enough.

You can't on the one hand say Galchenyuk wasn't ready and then not compare him to who we used as an alternative. Galchenyuk was the better choice in every way.


Galchenyuk's stats while he played at center shows that he was more than ready to play center.

Secondly, I don't know what panelists you were listening to but that's not what those guys said.

Third, you brought up the panelists as a means of supporting your argument. I merely showed that what you're saying wasn't really accurate. Ferraro and Ward both wondered what the hell MT was thinking as did others like MacGuire.

And finally, I don't rest my arguments on what those analysts say. I frequently disagree with them. If you're going to raise them as a means of supporting your arguments though, they should at least be arguing what you say they did. And that's not the case here.

"Lack of options" is nonsense. We had better options even aside from Galchenyuk just like we had better options other than Cube. This argument of yours is a non-starter.

He made that decision because it was his CHOICE to do so. Why he chose to do it is (you're right) beyond me and everyone else. But he had other options.

You're a lucky dog. Go Habs Go indeed!

You're the best LG, even if I disagree why 3/4 of what you say

Go Habs go.....and Jays!!!!

And Bills