Post-Game Talk: The Wild? More like The Boring AF! Jets lose 3-1

[Peggy]

Keeping in mind we have the best record in the Central over the last 10 games and safely in 1st. So who do you see as the front runner in the central and why?

The preds have been injured. The West doesn't look that promising this year

 

[AlphaLackey]

Rangers, Islanders and Chicago are all leading in their games.

Any Given Sunday is givin' it her all tonight!

 

[voyageur]

It has nothing to do with rewarding or punishing a player. That concept isn't all that applicable in a game were most of the players are playing like crap. It is about creating a spark or some momentum that is all. They seem to be the one combo that can't be broken up to spark the team and that is problematic in games where they are both not going.

I mean how often do Colorado break up their top line. How often are Tavares and Marner split up? I think Monahan and Gaudreau have been broken up once.

Scheif-Wheeler are our top tandem, best passer and shooter 5 on 5. Why move the captain down the lineup. He set up Scheifele a few times. Just no results. I think you look at the 3rd piece of the puzzle. Connor did not have his best game. E-L-L were invisible except for Little's read for the board rebound on a heads up Morrissey play. Maybe the solution is 29-55-26, 85-18-27 in a game like that, but Laine was pretty unimpressive, other than his goal. Even with Little/Perreault winning him clean draws, which makes me wonder why we don't have more designed plays with Laine in a shooting position off the draw. Anyways I feel like I am caught in a
s--t storm now. Disappointing game. Cherry saying looks like torn ligaments for Buff. Montreal-Tampa 5-4 (edit 5-5). Lots of pace in that game.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Much ado is being made about nothing. Our starter had another above average night and has continued his trend of much improved play (.919 in the month of December in 10 games). I think even the 'eye test' shows that he's had far fewer brain farts.

If Hellebuyck was a .919 all year, that would be about 8 less goals that we would have scored against us. Coincidentally, if Brossoit was a .919 this year, he'd have let in about 8 more goals.

So if you adjust our place in the standings for the "in spite of Hellebuyck / thanks to Brossoit" factor, given that 3 goals is worth about 1 point in the standings, that's slightly less than 3 points in the standings as a result, not the 6-8 being suggested here.

I don't follow your point. Helle was fine tonight. Kept us in the game. I said so in the gdt.

What I am getting at is that our backup has practically stolen 3 or 4 of his starts. You don't expect that (on a percentage of games played perspective) from your starter, let alone your backup. If we had an average backup we are probably 6 or more points lower in the standings and in a large group of teams around 42 - 44 points in the standings. Closer to slightly above middle of the pack. Then you aren't surprised by what we looked like tonight.

 

[JetsFan815]

So you do not want to side with those you actually agree with, because you think their motives are wrong?

Don't you see the tragedy in that?

We have both arrived to the same conclusion, that it would highly likely be beneficial to the Jets to reunite 55-29. What's there to concede? Rationality is a wonderful thing.

What's good for Jets is good for Laine and vice versa. He's part of the team, if he succeeds the team succeeds.

The difference is that I have nothing against playing Scheifele-Wheeler together, I just find it extremely weird and abnormal they they are always glued to each other, not even in games where the Jets look awful and the blender comes out are they separated. That is very weird to me.

On the other hand I am pretty sure you won't be satisfied until Laine is on that line even if the Jets won the Stanley Cup with him on another line.

 

[PhilJets]

Thanks to Wheeler's amazing pass through the forward's legs.

I don't think there is any argument that Wheeler drives the offense. Laine puts the puck in the net, but how good is he without Wheeler on the PP? I am not going to crap on him, but there is a real aversion to calling out a player to be better, in his case. He's been very poor with puck decisions. I think Wheeler was probably as pissed at Laine as the ref, for not defending on the EN goal. The kid is a star, one of the best shooters in the league, but he has to work harder to be great. Maybe not unlike a younger Ovechkin.

Wheeler was 20 point power play player before Laine.
Jets powerplay was mid rank

Think about this, how good is Wheeler without Laine on that power play?

Hows the Jets power play now? Last 2 years.
Then compare it before that.
Those where the years when Buff and Enstrom are prime (offense).

 

[Tommigun]

Thanks to Wheeler's amazing pass through the forward's legs.

I don't think there is any argument that Wheeler drives the offense. Laine puts the puck in the net, but how good is he without Wheeler on the PP? I am not going to crap on him, but there is a real aversion to calling out a player to be better, in his case. He's been very poor with puck decisions. I think Wheeler was probably as pissed at Laine as the ref, for not defending on the EN goal. The kid is a star, one of the best shooters in the league, but he has to work harder to be great. Maybe not unlike a younger Ovechkin.

How good would he be without Wheeler? Pretty good I’d say as he’s always scored a shitton on the PP. If you look at footage from his pre-NHL days he was as dangerous on the PP as he’s now. Wheeler’s PP points doubled when Laine entered the fray so it’s a bit ridiculous to attribute Laine’s PP prowess to Wheeler.

 

[BigZ65]

Quick thoughts...

Ugh! Really boring game at the MTS Centre...

CSW - Connor remains in a slump. Just lacking zip. Scheifele was slow and uninvolved. Wheeler was a mess with the puck.

ELL - Ehlers didn't have his A game. Laine continues to show that he needs to work on his balance, board work and quickness. Little was pedestrian.

CLT - Only decent line, but serious lack of finish. Copp looked decent.

PRA - A few nice shifts, but mostly spectators again.

44-8 Terrible game. Out of sync, and gave up way too many odd man situations. Worst game in a long time for this pair.

7-33 Not bad. Chiarot plays an honest defensive game, but struggles to make good plays with the puck. Buff was decent. Really hope it's not a serious injury but it gave me the 4-6 weeks vibe (MCL strain would be my first guess).

5-57 Kulikov was good. Myers had his moments, but also was too slow to read and react for much of the game.

Hellebuyck did his best to keep the Jets in it with some very good saves. Gave them good enough goaltending to win.

I think when the Jets offense slumps like this they seriously have to consider playing Lowry with offensive players because he can pretty much do all the hard work on his own.

 

[Maukkis]

I don't get your fixation on bashing on Laine (the only player who scored on the Jets) but I fully agree with you that Ehlers should have been just about the only untouchable player on the top line when they were struggling with zone entries. Such a strange decision by Maurice. ESW > CSW. Heck, when Little is playing well, why not try CLW as the first line and drop Chef to 1b with ECL just to mix things up and change the matchups.

That fixation exists in the heads of those who are mainly interested in all things Laine. It has been addressed before.

There isn't a Jet who I have not called out. Even Trouba gets it from time to time.

 

[voyageur]

Wheeler was 20 point power play player before Laine.
Jets powerplay was mid rank

Think about this, how good is Wheeler without Laine on that power play?

Hows the Jets power play now? Last 2 years.
Then compare it before that.
Those where the years when Buff and Enstrom are prime (offense).

Remember that Scheifele only became a star for us the year before Laine. You are right though. Laine helped a lot, so did the coaching design, something we never saw, with the puck filtering through Wheeler with multiple shooting options, before Laine. When Ladd was still on the PP, and Enstrom. We are utilizing our assets optimally now. I'm just saying a great shooter is just a shooter, without a great playmaker. If you've seen Brett Hull play with Adam Oates as opposed to Adam Creighton, you understand the difference.

 

[AlphaLackey]

I don't follow your point. Helle was fine tonight. Kept us in the game. I said so in the gdt.

I agree with you too. Only trying to put some more solid numbers on the over performance / underperformance impact over the whole year.

If we had an average backup we are probably 6 or more points lower in the standings and in a large group of teams around 42 - 44 points in the standings. Closer to slightly above middle of the pack. Then you aren't surprised by what we looked like tonight.

I just don't think it's that much. Here's a quick table comparing Brossoit's SV% if he had let in more goals this year, and the resulting change in points standings, going by the 3-to-1 ratio:

League average this year is .909; league replacement should still be in the low .900s, so even if Brossoit was a BAD backup that's 4 points. 6 points seems unrealistic. I stand by original estimates. Note that even 3 or 4 less points still has us 1st in the central.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Quick thoughts...

Ugh! Really boring game at the MTS Centre...

CSW - Connor remains in a slump. Just lacking zip. Scheifele was slow and uninvolved. Wheeler was a mess with the puck.

ELL - Ehlers didn't have his A game. Laine continues to show that he needs to work on his balance, board work and quickness. Little was pedestrian.

CLT - Only decent line, but serious lack of finish. Copp looked decent.

PRA - A few nice shifts, but mostly spectators again.

44-8 Terrible game. Out of sync, and gave up way too many odd man situations. Worst game in a long time for this pair.

7-33 Not bad. Chiarot plays an honest defensive game, but struggles to make good plays with the puck. Buff was decent. Really hope it's not a serious injury but it gave me the 4-6 weeks vibe (MCL strain would be my first guess).

5-57 Kulikov was good. Myers had his moments, but also was too slow to read and react for much of the game.

Hellebuyck did his best to keep the Jets in it with some very good saves. Gave them good enough goaltending to win.

Uncanny how much I agree with your post game assessments.

 

[Tommigun]

There's a thing called momentum, which leads to goals, as any hockey person knows. There should be a poll on how many times Laine makes brain dead plays. PP specialist right now. We need more. Dubois, Tkachuk, Keller are all guys who impact a game, every shift. Laine is quite the contrary. He's a one trick pony too often, albeit his trick is magic, often involves hats.

I don’t understand at all. I think he’s looked pretty engaged and been in the upper half of performance in the top-6 after the break. He looked disinterested and tired before the break, but why do you keep shitting on him after he’s seemingly picked it up?

The team hasn’t played well overall though. Is he some kind of proxy to vet your frustrations even when he’s playing ok, and there’s several other players underperforming far worse?

Edit: oh you’re the same guy who tried to pin Laine’s PP prowess on Wheeler. I hate the word but you clearly have an agenda here. You should give credit where credit is due, Laine doubling Wheeler’s PP assists is good for Wheeler too.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Umcanny how much I agree with your post game assessments.

Honestly, if I could count on Whillee and WPGChief to post after every game, I dunno if I'd even need to watch them.

 

[SCP Guy]

Soooo did anyone's brothers cousins hair dressers gardener see Buff sprint to his car after the game? Or get wheeled in a wheel chair with a cast up to his waist?

 

[Tommigun]

Remember that Scheifele only became a star for us the year before Laine. You are right though. Laine helped a lot, so did the coaching design, something we never saw, with the puck filtering through Wheeler with multiple shooting options, before Laine. When Ladd was still on the PP, and Enstrom. We are utilizing our assets optimally now. I'm just saying a great shooter is just a shooter, without a great playmaker. If you've seen Brett Hull play with Adam Oates as opposed to Adam Creighton, you understand the difference.

Still this? Why can’t you just accept that there may be SOMETHING Laine does well? He’s always been dangerous on the PP, even before NHL. He’s had the most PP goals in NHL too, and Jets’s PP became dominant when he joined. He’s just continuing what he’s always done. Still you try to find ANY other reason for Jets’s good PP than Laine.

I can’t believe that the Jets forum is now trying to discredit Laine’s PP skills too.

 

[voyageur]

I don’t understand at all. I think he’s looked pretty engaged and been in the upper half of performance in the top-6 after the break. He looked disinterested and tired before the break, but why do you keep ****ting in him after he’s seemingly picked it up?

The team hasn’t played well overall though. Is he some kind of proxy to vet your frustrations even when he’s playing ok, and there’s several other players underperforming far worse?

Edit: oh you’re the same guy who tried to pin Laine’s PP prowess on Wheeler. I hate the word but you clearly have an agenda here.

I didn't see much of the Calgary game, I fell asleep before it. So I can't comment on that performance. Didn't see much to like today. I think he has to move his feet more, as Buff reminded him. It's amazing that no one sees how many loose pucks get away from him, get by him, because he doesn't skate or use his body position. I wonder if people only base hockey off stats now. Yes he scored. But his line's biggest contribution today was dumping the puck in to get off the ice. Little had the best 5 on 5 scoring chance. He's supposed to be a star. Like Mitch Marner. How come he is -8? Little, Connor, Ehlers, Myers, Chiarot? What's the correlation?

If you can't see what Wheeler does for Laine, well damn. It's the same as Ovechkin, with Backstrom on the PP.

I like Laine, but the kid has to improve his overall game. I say that with convinction, I'm not going to be intimidated into kissing a player's ass because he scores goals. You have to score more goals to win. And so I reiterate Laine needs to step up his game, 5 on 5, for us to go far. It's not out of each his reach or talent level either.

 

[Mud Turtle]

I’m not a gambler, but there may be people who could do very well betting against Maurice in games like this.

 

[AlphaLackey]

I’m not a gambler, but there may be people who could do very well betting against Maurice in games like this.

As always, the rub comes in defining what "games like this" are *before* looking at the final score and saying "yeah, a game like this one"

 

[The Blue Baron]

Knock On Wood

Preds and Avs losing.

Come on Hawks and Rangers!

 

[ps241]

Still this? Why can’t you just accept that there may be SOMETHING Laine does well? He’s always been dangerous on the PP, even before NHL. He’s had the most PP goals in NHL too, and Jets’s PP became dominant when he joined. He’s just continuing what he’s always done. Still you try to find ANY other reason for Jets’s good PP than Laine.

I can’t believe that the Jets forum is now trying to discredit Laine’s PP skills too.

Not sure who are debating with but Laine is the most important piece on our power play and it’s not really that close. Wheeler is magic as the QB on the half wall....Scief is great in the slot......but it all gets built around the shot and the threat of the shot.

 

[Board Bard]

When Toronto is eliminated in the first round of the playoffs again there will be a lot of sad people.

I had a post like this pulled in the GDT. Guess I should have used a gif.

 

[Jetster231]

The good news, the Rangers did us a solid and beat Nashville 4-3 clean in regulation tonight. Jets still 4 pts up on the Preds. Today's debacle isn't as bad with the Preds losing

 

[AlphaLackey]

The good news, the Rangers did us a solid and beat Nashville 4-3 clean in regulation tonight. Jets still 4 pts up on the Preds. Today's debacle isn't as bad with the Preds losing

Colorado still tied at the end of 2, Calgary still tied at the end of 1; they can both still lose as well.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

The Wild managed to bore the Jets on the ice as much as they bored me on my couch.

Jesus, what an atrocity it was to watch that.


But there’s no way a contender should have been so f***ing flat against the Wild.