Post-Game Talk: The Wild? More like The Boring AF! Jets lose 3-1

[Ducky10]

Maurice could have switched lines till the cows came home, it would have had zero bearing, given how they all played.

This game came down to the Jets players refusing to adapt to the game that clearly presented itself to them early on. Breaking down a team trapping and loading the neutral zone isn't rocket science and Maurice talks about it regularly. I don't believe in any way that it wasn't conveyed how they needed to play, they didn't do it..

They tried to force the puck up the wall and over the blue line, when they did dump it in their retrieval was brutal, they put the puck into terrible places where the support wasn't there. They lost too many battles along the walls, their puck support was way too loose and gave the Wild way too much room. The lack of forward support also led to the odd man rushes, nobody was rotating properly or playing with any discipline.

A team this talented shouldn't need to be told how to play in a game like this and execute. They have the speed, size and skill to do it but you have to actually do it. Too many players playing their own game, simply a very poor team effort.

Helle was fine.

Hope Buff is ok.

 

[Ducky10]

Jets are very lucky that Nashville is in a serious funk right now. Extremely lucky to still be 4 pts up on Central lead.

Why are they lucky? They've earned their points.

 

[Ducky10]

I fully agree with everything you said. But the last few games Laine has not been the problem, still he’s constantly being singled out. It’s like a record that was left on after his lackadaisical play before the break.

2nd overall picks, with superstar type talent, on the verge of very large paydays, tend to get singled out.

 

[Ducky10]

Games like this beg the question: “if other teams can figure out Minneaota’s Trap game (and the trap game of other mediocre teams) why can’t an uber talented team like the Jets beat it?
Can it be anything other than coaching? Honest question.

Yes, it can be the players. Every other team hasn't figured out the Wild "trap" game either, they've won 18 games.

Jets seemed to figure it out just fine last season and in the playoffs. Blaming coaching in a loss like this is just low hanging fruit.

 

[Ducky10]

Speak for yourself, buddy... The Jets suck against the trap and it is all on the head coach to figure it out. Simply playing faster is not the solution, but it is what Maurice has been preaching this far.

Playing faster is not the only thing Maurice has been preaching, especially in games like this. You should try listening to him.

It's not all in the coach to figure it out. The trap isn't some new fangled hockey system ffs. The Jets lacked the commitment, patience and execution to break it down, that's on them .

 

[Tommigun]

Any news on Buff? When will we know more?

 

[Ducky10]

Speed beats the trap every time -
We were slow for most of the game - picked it up a bit in the 3rd but too late.

I don't understand why the big bad trap is such a concern -
Dump it and chase it - if you're a quick team, you're forcing the D to turn and you should win the races.

We were not a quick team tonight and way too many hero's trying to carry into the zone through a wall of wild.
KC, Ehlers, Scheif and Wheels come to mind.

Congrats, you're one of about 8 posters who get it.

 

[Get Bengt]

Re: PoMo and The Trap:

Agree coaches take more heat than they’re due, but we do need to break the trap, & the buck does stop at PMo. But constructive suggestions are worth more than bitter complaints. So:

Idea: try a “delayed dump-in”:

1) feign carrying puck in, forcing trappers to step up
2) drop-pass to trailer at centre, who immediately dumps it deep
3) time the forecheck to this delayed dump-in

Similar idea to the mid-ice drop pass now in use in most PPs. Might be worth at least adding this arrow to the quiver.

 

[Robinson2187]

It must be tough to hate the team you love so much?
If all the Central teams were charging then the loss would hurt more.
Don't like the result and could complain about many small things.
But have to remind myself pro athletes can't be great all the time.
The other team wants to win too.
Things certainly could have gone better.
Things come in waves... we were scoring more than one could expect and now we are scoring way less than we should.
The floodgates will open again... even if it's not until 2019.

 

[Robinson2187]

Any news on Buff? When will we know more?

When he writes his memoirs.

 

[Maukkis]

Any news on Buff? When will we know more?

When he returns on the ice. This organisation has a fascinating ability to use words while saying nothing.

 

[AlphaLackey]

But have to remind myself pro athletes can't be great all the time.
The other team wants to win too.

Of all the superstitions and myths in sports, the one that claims that you can will yourself into overcoming variance is the most deleterious of the bunch. It leads to bad decisions, results-oriented thinking, and inhibits player growth; to say nothing of the heartache it induces in the fan base!

 

[Farmboy Patty]

When he returns on the ice. This organisation has a fascinating ability to use words while saying nothing.

Sounds like "lower body injury, day to day", which could mean several weeks or months. Their words mean nothing.

 

[Jimby]

The Jets tried this during the game.

Re: PoMo and The Trap:

Agree coaches take more heat than they’re due, but we do need to break the trap, & the buck does stop at PMo. But constructive suggestions are worth more than bitter complaints. So:

Idea: try a “delayed dump-in”:

1) feign carrying puck in, forcing trappers to step up
2) drop-pass to trailer at centre, who immediately dumps it deep
3) time the forecheck to this delayed dump-in

Similar idea to the mid-ice drop pass now in use in most PPs. Might be worth at least adding this arrow to the quiver.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Well then the Preds must in the following order:
- Lack drive
- Be poorly coached
- be an embarrassment to Nashville
- Be poorly coached
- have star players who don't care
- be poorly coached
- can't play the trap
- be poorly coached
- have terrible goaltending
- be poorly coached
- have lazy players
- be poorly coached

You need to follow hockey. There is no mystery in the fact that their slide in the standings coincides with a serious rash of injuries to key players that they are still working through.

 

[NotCommitted]

I mean how often do Colorado break up their top line. How often are Tavares and Marner split up? I think Monahan and Gaudreau have been broken up once.

Scheif-Wheeler are our top tandem, best passer and shooter 5 on 5. Why move the captain down the lineup. He set up Scheifele a few times. Just no results. I think you look at the 3rd piece of the puzzle. Connor did not have his best game. E-L-L were invisible except for Little's read for the board rebound on a heads up Morrissey play. Maybe the solution is 29-55-26, 85-18-27 in a game like that, but Laine was pretty unimpressive, other than his goal. Even with Little/Perreault winning him clean draws, which makes me wonder why we don't have more designed plays with Laine in a shooting position off the draw. Anyways I feel like I am caught in a
s--t storm now. Disappointing game. Cherry saying looks like torn ligaments for Buff. Montreal-Tampa 5-4 (edit 5-5). Lots of pace in that game.

The big difference here is McKinnon-Rantanen combine for 78 EVP, add Landeskog and it becomes 106. Scheifele-Wheeler combine for 62 points. Add Ehlers and it becomes 83, or Connor for 80.
Tavares-Marner 72 points, Gaudreau-Monahan 67. You can dig for the corsi numbers and what-not for the Jets first line and it doesn't really get any better. I'm not saying it's a bad line, but it's far from the juggernaut of a beast some Jets fans make it out to be. But where it starts to get crazy is Scheifele has more TOI/GP than anyone from the Colorado's top line, and Wheeler has more than both Rantanen & Landeskog.

Let that sink in and then look at the roster for both teams below the top line.

Imagine entering that 3rd period vs Minnesota with
Perrault - Scheifele - Laine
Ehlers - Little - Wheeler
Connor - Lowry - Tanev
Copp - Roslovic - Appleton.

If you are willing to split Scheifele & Wheeler, everything is possible

I dislike how Maurice seems to lack the balls to trust in his system and the roster to be able to win him games without Scheifele and Wheeler playing 23 minutes a night. He has limited his options for line changes to very small and mostly meaningless shifts, I mean swapping Ehlers and Connor around is not really gonna change much. If it's ESW and CLL to begin with, all it does is probably make both lines worse. Splitting Scheif and Wheels would actually be a meaningful change that would shift the whole dynamic of the top-6.

Also giving Little Wheeler to work with would be a good reality check where we stand with our 2nd line C. While at it, you could even keep Laine in that line and see if Wheeler is able to work his magic 5v5 and give Laine a chance to play his offensively preferred wing. Ok that line could be a real tirefire defensively.

Anyway, the point is whatever changes the coach decides to try out, it's all money in the bank come playoff time or injury to a key piece.

The Jets have excellent winger depth, the only reason to be a one line team is if Bryan Little is just no longer a capable 2nd C. If he is not, then the question becomes, what to do about it.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

When he writes his memoirs.

I Ate a House for Lunch: The Dustin Byfuglien Story

 

[Jets 31]

We smacked the Wild around in the playoffs last season , we should be winning these games this season as well but yesterday the Jets weren't willing to out skate and outwork the Wild . I watched the Buff hit several times , talk about a innocent looking play , i still don't get how that turned out so bad . If Buff is out and Morrow in , good luck to our defense , it won't be pretty .

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I agree with you too. Only trying to put some more solid numbers on the over performance / underperformance impact over the whole year.


I just don't think it's that much. Here's a quick table comparing Brossoit's SV% if he had let in more goals this year, and the resulting change in points standings, going by the 3-to-1 ratio:

View attachment 170233

League average this year is .909; league replacement should still be in the low .900s, so even if Brossoit was a BAD backup that's 4 points. 6 points seems unrealistic. I stand by original estimates. Note that even 3 or 4 less points still has us 1st in the central.

I just think that with such a small sample size you have to look at discrete games. He stole probably three games. Two at least and probably a point against Biffalo.

 

[AlphaLackey]

I just think that with such a small sample size you have to look at discrete games. He stole probably three games. Two at least and probably a point against Biffalo.

Okay, there's some interesting work we can do here. Let's define "to steal a game" in a concrete way. How about:

A. If your team is outshot, plus
B. If you win the game, plus
C. If your goalies' save percentage for the game is above .922; I picked that number simply because that would mean he played better in one game than the NHL career leaders in save percentage (min 200 GP) played throughout their careers. Another candidate would be .940, which is the modern era SV% record (min 25GP)

Obviously if we set B to "get one point" then the goalie would have 'stolen the point'.

Anything I'm missing before I go combing through data?

 

[Mud Turtle]

Sounds like "lower body injury, day to day", which could mean several weeks or months. Their words mean nothing.

I was not a fan of big Buff’s game for long stretches last year but he’s certainly turned it around this year. He’s so much more responsible with the puck.
Sure he takes a few too many risks still but much less often than last year, and now the positives in his game truly do outnumber the negatives. In a big way.
We will really miss him back there if he’s gone for a long time.

 

[KingBogo]

You need to follow hockey. There is no mystery in the fact that their slide in the standings coincides with a serious rash of injuries to key players that they are still working through.

I do follow hockey that is why I realize that teams still need to win games with injuries. Last season when we had both Scheifele and Trouba out I don't remember people posting that it was okay when we lost because we had injuries. Last night Nashville dressed a top 4 defensive group that are as good as any grouping in the NHL and gave up a 3rd period lead to the lowly Rangers. I'm doubting if that was us people would be posting it was okay because we still have Forsberg out.

 

[Channelcat]

That's 5 weak games in a row. Team needs to wake up.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

I was not a fan of big Buff’s game for long stretches last year but he’s certainly turned it around this year. He’s so much more responsible with the puck.
Sure he takes a few too many risks still but much less often than last year, and now the positives in his game truly do outnumber the negatives. In a big way.
We will really miss him back there if he’s gone for a long time.

He has played really well this season and looked like a Norris candidate. I really hope that it's nothing serious and that he gets back soon.

 

[KingBogo]

Maurice could have switched lines till the cows came home, it would have had zero bearing, given how they all played.

This game came down to the Jets players refusing to adapt to the game that clearly presented itself to them early on. Breaking down a team trapping and loading the neutral zone isn't rocket science and Maurice talks about it regularly. I don't believe in any way that it wasn't conveyed how they needed to play, they didn't do it..

They tried to force the puck up the wall and over the blue line, when they did dump it in their retrieval was brutal, they put the puck into terrible places where the support wasn't there. They lost too many battles along the walls, their puck support was way too loose and gave the Wild way too much room. The lack of forward support also led to the odd man rushes, nobody was rotating properly or playing with any discipline.

A team this talented shouldn't need to be told how to play in a game like this and execute. They have the speed, size and skill to do it but you have to actually do it. Too many players playing their own game, simply a very poor team effort.

Helle was fine.

Hope Buff is ok.

This is a real good post Ducky10. You constantly hear Maurice preaching about the need for the team to play the game in front of them. After the Flames game game he also gave a foreshadowing about the seams the Jets were finding won't always be there. IMO he realizes more than anyone that his young group of offense first stars like to skate and produce off the rush and are reluctant to transition into a dump & chase team. On the other hand 90% of the time you want them "to play their game" speed through the neutral zone with zone entries under control. Being able to transition from one style to the next is up to the players. It is not like they don't know it is happening and are being reminded on what they need to do when it does.