Blue Jays Discussion: The trade deadline has passed. Time to see what this can do (most acquisitions expected to be present Thursday in Minnesota)

[phillipmike]

This team's entire current situation has been the result of certain players on the team not playing up to their ability/expected performance. The season will ultimately come down to whether or not they can turn that around. Nothing done or nor done at the deadline would have changed that. If your "best players" aren't playing up to par, you're not going to cover that up with deadline acquisitions.

The trade deadline has and will always be an overblown "excuse". The teams that win the World Series hit a stride at the right time when seemingly everyone on the roster is locked in and performing. I also don't put any worth into non-baseball logic like "yeah well if we made blockbuster additions, the guys on the roster would get hyped and start playing better!". The only one who can help Bo Bichette start hitting is Bichette himself.

As mentioned above, the Padres are 1-6 since Soto and company joined the team. They got swept by the Dodgers and have scored a total of 4 runs over their past 4 games (including being shut-out in their last two games). The Mariners have done slightly better; going 3-3 since their trade-deadline push (including two losses to the lowly Angels). There is nothing "magical" about winning the trade-deadline or out-acquiring your supposed competition.

If the Jays did more at the deadline and stunk, fans would be calling for the front office's head. If the Jays did nothing and played well, fans would be saying "see they should have done more, this team is ready." Its a no win.

The Yankees, and Padres won the deadline but are playing terrible. And i bet some Jays fans will say "well at least they did something" - yeah they may have made their team worse in the long run with no immediate impact in the win column yet.

The teams that did a lot at the deadline and their records since;

Phillies: 5-1
Mariners: 4-3
Twins: 3-3
Yankees: 1-5
Brewers: 1-5
Braves: 2-5
Padres: 2-5

Only the Phillies have done better and 4 of those wins were against the Nationals.

And those who wanted starting pitching added at the deadline, here are all the starters who were traded in July to other teams and what they have done since being moved;

Castillo: 4.05 ERA
Montas: 18.00 ERA
Syndergaard: 7.00 ERA
Mahle: 6.00 ERA (Unvaccinated)
Boyd: Hasnt pitched in the majors in 2022
Odorizzi: 3.86 ERA
Quintana: 1.50 ERA
Montgomery: 0.00 ERA

Luis Castillo would have cost you Moreno which is a non starter. Montas was traded for a lot for a guy with a shoulder injury. White is comparable to Syndergaard. Mahle isnt vaccinated and cant play in Toronto. Boyd isnt pitching. Houston wanted a reliever for Odorizzi - which we dont have and the Astros wouldnt have traded him to a team they are likely to play in the ALDS. Yankees arent trading Montgomery to their division rival. So unless there were a lot of people on the Quintana train, which there wasnt, he was the only real option. And Quintana was traded for St. Louis' 4th best reliever throwing 96mph with control and the Cards 10th best prospect who is now Pirates' 11th best prospect in a stacked system. We dont have a reliever to trade, we were adding relievers.

And i saw some calling for Max Castillo in the other thread, he has a 40.50 ERA in his first game with the Royals AAA team.

 

[phillipmike]

Gurriel is a free agent the year after Teo, it's not the same year. Reynolds is a switch hitter if I remember correctly too.

The Gurriel free agency date was addressed last year;



And yeah, Reynolds is a switch hitter.

 

[MS]

This is why i didnt like the signing - cant stay healthy and cant play CF. Great bat but you signed him to be your CF and so far 1.5ish years in he hasnt been your predominant CF due to injury. You have gotten close to no value out of him to play CF and less than halfway through the deal he cant stay healthy, will likely have to move to the corner OF and again find another CF. In my opinion, just DH him so you can at least have his bat in the lineup and forget about him playin CF and let him get the odd spot in the corner OF.

Yup. This was why I wasn't a huge fan either.

There aren't many old CFs. To me we were signing an injury-prone guy to play a year or two in CF and then a bunch of years as an aging corner OF. And he's played even less in CF in his first two years than I expected.

 

[Eyedea]

Defensive data has been iffy on Reynolds to date. Are we sure he's a good option there?

Anyway, I think a Judge/Springer split duty will be fine.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

Sale broke his wrist in a bicycle accident. Yikes!

If i was the red sox id be putting that 30 mil player in a protected bubble after this season

 

[phillipmike]

Defensive data has been iffy on Reynolds to date. Are we sure he's a good option there?

Anyway, I think a Judge/Springer split duty will be fine.

Seems like his defense has regressed. May not be an ideal fit defensively so the Jays should look elsewhere, especially if you are talking about moving a prospect of Moreno's calibre for him.

 

[Blitzkrug]

To circle back on the Padres thing. Juan Soto is great, but even he can't fix the fact the majority of that lineup was trash before him and Josh Bell got traded there.

Machado and Cronenworth are basically dragging that team on their back.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Great post by @phillipmike up above. Thanks for pulling all that together. Small samples, yada yada, but still, it's good for everyone to see the reality.

I am dissapointed with the Jays as well, but only because I bought into the pre season hype. As I've learned many times in my life, setting expectations too high really saps the enjoyment out of that thing/event.

I have no qualms with going into this years playoffs fighting for our lives. Orioles could catch us, as could a few other teams, and that's fine. We can't expect a cake walk just because there is so much talent on the team; baseball just never works out that way.

Easy to be upset about pitching, but it's the bats we most need to wake up. The line up is too talented to be so feast or famine. Just like last year, destroying a team every 10 games or is not productive when the win only still counts as one.

Call up Moreno, Gage and Zulu!

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

To circle back on the Padres thing. Juan Soto is great, but even he can't fix the fact the majority of that lineup was trash before him and Josh Bell got traded there.

Machado and Cronenworth are basically dragging that team on their back.

Well they got rid of most of the trash at the deadline and replaced them with massive upgrades. The only thing left is SS, which Tatis will replace another bad hitter in Kim

CF will still be a bit of an issue as Myers is terrible overall and Grisham has been pretty bad in CF I think. Grisham will still see the majority of playing time because although he has struggled this year, his bat is way better than Myers

 

[MS]

Great post by @phillipmike up above. Thanks for pulling all that together. Small samples, yada yada, but still, it's good for everyone to see the reality.

I am dissapointed with the Jays as well, but only because I bought into the pre season hype. As I've learned many times in my life, setting expectations too high really saps the enjoyment out of that thing/event.

I have no qualms with going into this years playoffs fighting for our lives. Orioles could catch us, as could a few other teams, and that's fine. We can't expect a cake walk just because there is so much talent on the team; baseball just never works out that way.

Easy to be upset about pitching, but it's the bats we most need to wake up. The line up is too talented to be so feast or famine. Just like last year, destroying a team every 10 games or is not productive when the win only still counts as one.

Call up Moreno, Gage and Zulu!

Everyone really underestimated how many things went right for this team last year and what a colossal failure it was to make the playoffs with that roster.

People act like any player under 25 (in any sport) will just make exponential improvements every year and that simply isn't the case. 2021 may well represent the career years for Bichette and Guerrero when all is said and done.

Outside of Bichette, I don't think there are that many bats this year that are really all that disappointing. But when you don't have Bichette and Guerrero having monster years and you take Semien off the roster ... that's a lot of offense gone and the projections that the team would be much better fly out the window.

 

[weems]

Tucker Toman 2 for 4 with RBI (2 doubles)
Alex De Jesus 2 for 3, BB with RBI
Irv Carter 5ip, 1 hit, 0 walks, 6 SO

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Everyone really underestimated how many things went right for this team last year and what a colossal failure it was to make the playoffs with that roster.

People act like any player under 25 (in any sport) will just make exponential improvements every year and that simply isn't the case. 2021 may well represent the career years for Bichette and Guerrero when all is said and done.

Outside of Bichette, I don't think there are that many bats this year that are really all that disappointing. But when you don't have Bichette and Guerrero having monster years and you take Semien off the roster ... that's a lot of offense gone and the projections that the team would be much better fly out the window.

100% agree. Last year's team should have been in the WS. One of the best all around Jays teams I've watched.

 

[MS]

100% agree. Last year's team should have been in the WS. One of the best all around Jays teams I've watched.

This whole 'Last year was just the preview!' thing drives me nuts. Last year was the movie, and nobody - from the fans to the media to the organization to the players - seemed to realize it and take it seriously enough. That was a f***ing terrific team that was good enough to win a WS but a bunch of stupidly, lazily blown games during the season resulted in missing the playoffs by 1 game in a year with no dominant AL WS favourite.

Now we're seeing reality. This is a good team and will continue to be a good team for several more years, but it's hard to have everything come together as an elite team. Guys get hurt and get old. Guys have bad years. Signings don't work out. Other teams get better and do have elite years.

 

[Blitzkrug]

This whole 'Last year was just the preview!' thing drives me nuts. Last year was the movie, and nobody - from the fans to the media to the organization to the players - seemed to realize it and take it seriously enough. That was a f***ing terrific team that was good enough to win a WS but a bunch of stupidly, lazily blown games during the season resulted in missing the playoffs by 1 game in a year with no dominant AL WS favourite.

Now we're seeing reality. This is a good team and will continue to be a good team for several more years, but it's hard to have everything come together as an elite team. Guys get hurt and get old. Guys have bad years. Signings don't work out. Other teams get better and do have elite years.

Eh I don't think people took that preview comment too seriously. It was just a young player feeling good about the future.

The media ran with it of course, because the media are a bunch of troglodytes that pit clicks above all else but I don't think anyone thought much of it otherwise.

 

[trellaine201]

Jays wanted Bradley as a FA so I am not surprised.

 

[MS]

Eh I don't think people took that preview comment too seriously. It was just a young player feeling good about the future.

The media ran with it of course, because the media are a bunch of troglodytes that pit clicks above all else but I don't think anyone thought much of it otherwise.

I'm not criticizing Guerrero really for the comment - it's just that the comment really sums up kind of the mood around the team last year. Oh, no playoffs? No biggie, we'll just get better next year!

 

[MAB1]

Everyone really underestimated how many things went right for this team last year and what a colossal failure it was to make the playoffs with that roster.

People act like any player under 25 (in any sport) will just make exponential improvements every year and that simply isn't the case. 2021 may well represent the career years for Bichette and Guerrero when all is said and done.

Outside of Bichette, I don't think there are that many bats this year that are really all that disappointing. But when you don't have Bichette and Guerrero having monster years and you take Semien off the roster ... that's a lot of offense gone and the projections that the team would be much better fly out the window.

The 2021 Toronto Blue Jays had an expected win-loss of 99-63 last season and finished 91-71...and you think "everyone really underestimated how many things went right for this team last year"? The fact of the matter is the 2021 Blue Jays were indeed a very good team but they underperformed in comparison to what their record should've been.

The 2022 Toronto Blue Jays currently have an expected win-loss of 61-48 (91 win pace) and currently have a record of 60-49 (89 win pace).

The reality is they haven't had a player replace Semien's value from last year (although Semien himself hasn't replicated last year in Texas so it's not a guarantee bringing him back would've fixed that). Vladdy and Bo haven't been as good as last year and this team is still on pace for about the same amount of wins as last year's team. The only difference is last year the other AL East teams were better than they are now so the wild card situation was more difficult. That's not as much of an issue this year.

There are no style points in getting to the playoffs...just get in. The 2006 Cardinals might've been the weakest version of their playoff teams of that decade but that team was the one that won it all. The way some of y'all talk about this team you'd think this team isn't in a playoff spot. They're literally still 3rd best in the AL and 6th best in all of MLB. If the season ended today, they would host the wildcard round and be favourites over Seattle. Relax

 

[Vector]

 

[phillipmike]

Wonder if the JBJ signing is more bad news on Springer.

 

[MS]

The 2021 Toronto Blue Jays had an expected win-loss of 99-93 last season and finished 91-71...and you think "everyone really underestimated how many things went right for this team last year"? The fact of the matter is the 2021 Blue Jays were indeed a very good team but they underperformed in comparison to what their record should've been.

Everything went right in terms of the team coming together, staying mostly healthy, and lots of guys having career years. Which is why they should have been a 99-win team.

Everything didn't go right in terms of how the team actually executed on the field in close games. Several games lost in large part due to mindnumbing managerial decisions and an overall lack of intensity and focus.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I'm not criticizing Guerrero really for the comment - it's just that the comment really sums up kind of the mood around the team last year. Oh, no playoffs? No biggie, we'll just get better next year!

Why is it so hard to believe that this team can get in to the WS at least this year? Overall, they are doing a decent job. Sitting 1st in the wildcard. Yes, I’d like to see them play better but the future is bright. If they don’t win it all this year, I am sure management will be aggressive once again in the winter trying to improve this team.

Your point earlier about losing Semien, he wouldn’t have repeated last season even if the Jays re-signed him so pinning over his lost offence does no one any good. This team is still top 5 offence in all of baseball.

You guys say this stuff about last year’s team being so good yada yada, but this team will actually make the playoffs and has a chance to go far.

 

[dangomon]

Wonder if the JBJ is more bad news on Springer.

I assume it's worse news for Zimmer.

 

[MS]

Why is it so hard to believe that this team can get in to the WS at least this year? Overall, they are doing a decent job. Sitting 1st in the wildcard. Yes, I’d like to see them play better but the future is bright. If they don’t win it all this year, I am sure management will be aggressive once again in the winter trying to improve this team.

Your point earlier about losing Semien, he wouldn’t have repeated last season even if the Jays re-signed him so pinning over his lost offence does no one any good. This team is still top 5 offence in all of baseball.

You guys say this stuff about last year’s team being so good yada yada, but this team will actually make the playoffs and has a chance to go far.

I never said that the team couldn't get to a WS this year? I don't think this team is as good (or as firing on all cylinders) as the team last year and I think the competition is tougher, but of course they could go on a run if they make it in.

The point is that a contending team only gets a limited number of years in their window and they squandered the first year of their window with one of the best teams they'll have.

You're missing the point on Semien. I didn't want him re-signed. But not having him means that this team is not as relatively dominant as last year's team.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I'm not criticizing Guerrero really for the comment - it's just that the comment really sums up kind of the mood around the team last year. Oh, no playoffs? No biggie, we'll just get better next year!

I mean I think that is also kind of disingenuous. The comment was made in Spring Training months after last season end. You can't honestly think the guys on the team last year were content or happy with the way last season ended? It was a passing optimistic comment during spring training....which is what happens in spring training every season yet for some reason people are still hung up on it.

 

[MS]

I mean I think that is also kind of disingenuous. The comment was made in Spring Training months after last season end. You can't honestly think the guys on the team last year were content or happy with the way last season ended? It was a passing optimistic comment during spring training....which is what happens in spring training every season yet for some reason people are still hung up on it.

Of course I don't think they were 'happy' with the way the season ended. Neither will the Orioles players if they miss the playoffs this year after kind of getting close.

To me that quote just encapsulated the entire vibe around the team last year. We had the best team and the best roster in the AL (especially in the 2nd half) but lesser teams like the Yankees and Rays were gutting out every win and managing the hell out of every close game while we just flittered away a bunch of winnable games on mental errors and the Montoyo clown show. The intensity and expectations of those teams were higher, from the top of the organization on down.