Blue Jays Discussion: The trade deadline has passed. Time to see what this can do (most acquisitions expected to be present Thursday in Minnesota)

[Da Cool Rula]

[Twitter]

 

[phillipmike]

[Twitter]

Leading the league among all pitchers in fWAR.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Leading the league among all pitchers in fWAR.

So far they've guessed right choosing him over Ray!!!

 

[Hoverhand]

You're accounting for regression from Gausman but not realizing that Skubal hasn't had a season close to what he's doing this year? What if he pulls a Trevor Rogers and regresses next season?

Skubal has a 6.33 ERA against AL East teams this year (1x Boston, Baltimore, Toronto).

That's because he's a developing sophomore who worked with Fetter early on in the season to perfect aspects of his repertoire.

He's 25 years old and is developing into the pitcher he was expected to be when coming up through the minors. Your counter this has been bringing up the R.A Dickey example, who was 13 years older than Skubal is right now when he regressed. Then you brought up Taylor Rogers, who is a reliever, a position that is far more volatile.

Look, they can keep whichever combination that they'd like. My objection here was to prove that Skubal is a valuable player with a bright future and I've done that.

 

[Canada4Gold]

That's because he's a developing sophomore who worked with Fetter early on in the season to perfect aspects of his repertoire.

He's 25 years old and is developing into the pitcher he was expected to be when coming up through the minors. Your counter this has been bringing up the R.A Dickey example, who was 13 years older than Skubal is right now when he regressed. Then you brought up Taylor Rogers, who is a reliever, a position that is far more volatile.

Look, they can keep whichever combination that they'd like. My objection here was to prove that Skubal is a valuable player with a bright future and I've done that.

Trevor Rogers not Taylor Rogers

Trevor Rogers is a starter who is younger than Skubal and had a better season last year than Skubal is having this year and now this year Rogers has been worst than Berrios

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[stickty111]

Doing little in the deadline isn't looking like a smart strategy. We'll see if the players can carry management otherwise serious questions should be asked about them able to take this team far. Good thing there are still 2 months left.

 

[dredeye]

He cheated the rule, or used the rule to his advantage. Basic cheating. Whatever you want to call it, hate it when player's do this

Well this is the first time I’ve ever heard of playing within the rules is cheating. Interesting take

 

[red devil]

Looks like Kikuchi is staying in the rotation

 

[stickty111]

Looks like Kikuchi is staying in the rotation

If management will add bad pitchers at bad contracts, you will keep getting chances.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Looks like Kikuchi is staying in the rotation

Lol "a couple of bad pitches". 3 walks, 3 HRs, only 6 Swinging Strikes (84 pitches)....he had nothing tonight. You could argue that the HR pitch to Urias wasn't bad, but he didn't do himself any favours by issuing back to back walks

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

In other news, Padres haven't scored a run in 18 innings (and counting). 7 runs overall in their last 40 innings, going 0-4 during that stretch and currently losing 1-0 to the Giants

Can they undo the Soto trade?

 

[Da Cool Rula]

 

[nilan30]

View attachment 575793
Waiting to see if this gets confirmed

Interesting twitter name.

I always liked JBJ. Was he not playing this year? Also with the Merrifield addition I'm a little curious about the need for this move.

Springer/Gurriel/Hernandez/Tapia/Merrifield/Zimmer/Bradley/Biggio. Is Springer out long term? Zimmer is expendable and Biggio and Merrifield are IF/OF utility but it seems like a lot of names.

 

[phillipmike]

View attachment 575793
Waiting to see if this gets confirmed

Its possible he is right on this as the Jays went after him last offseason in the Grichuk-Bradley talks and he was their backup plan to Springer 2 off-seasons ago. But the guy is a hack, said the Jays acquired Montas and was in serious discussions with the Cubs for Happ.

He just posts things he sees and pretends it is his and hopes he is right. I assume he was going off of this tweet from 3 hours earlier;



Also the short form of his first name, and full last name for his handle does make it seem like he is a parody account.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[phillipmike]

This is why i didnt like the signing - cant stay healthy and cant play CF. Great bat but you signed him to be your CF and so far 1.5ish years in he hasnt been your predominant CF due to injury. You have gotten close to no value out of him to play CF and less than halfway through the deal he cant stay healthy, will likely have to move to the corner OF and again find another CF. In my opinion, just DH him so you can at least have his bat in the lineup and forget about him playin CF and let him get the odd spot in the corner OF.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Everyone was like "oh those games against Baltimore will be easy. They'll have already sold off everyone by then"

Baseball is a cruel mistress. If people don't hate the O's by the end of this season I suggest they learn. Because they're only going to get better from here.

.As for Kikuchi...at some point you need to cut your losses. It's wild a guy who has been way below average outside of like a 2 month stretch last season gets that many chances. It should be White and Stripling at the back of the rotation once the latter is back from his hopefully brief DL stint

Kikuchi can have another chance when he learns to locate a fastball more than once a game.

 

[MAB1]

This is why i didnt like the signing - cant stay healthy and cant play CF. Great bat but you signed him to be your CF and so far 1.5ish years in he hasnt been your predominant CF due to injury. You have gotten close to no value out of him to play CF and less than halfway through the deal he cant stay healthy, will likely have to move to the corner OF and again find another CF. In my opinion, just DH him so you can at least have his bat in the lineup and forget about him playin CF and let him get the odd spot in the corner OF.

One of the reasons why I hope the Jays look at trading for Bryan Reynolds in the offseason. Again BTV isn't perfect but you should be able to get him around a package of Jansen + Martinez + Zulu for example. Springer's bat plays at any OF spot, and Teo is a free agent after next season and Gurriel 2024. The Jays don't exactly have any OF prospects on the cusp either so having Springer's bat at any of the corner spots is fine.

Ideally you trade for Reynolds using the above deal for example, and then you trade Teo/Gurriel in a package with say Moreno + for an ace on the market if they miss out on Verlander/Rodon. Move forward with Springer, Reynolds and one of Gurriel/Teo.

 

[metafour]

Doing little in the deadline isn't looking like a smart strategy. We'll see if the players can carry management otherwise serious questions should be asked about them able to take this team far. Good thing there are still 2 months left.

This team's entire current situation has been the result of certain players on the team not playing up to their ability/expected performance. The season will ultimately come down to whether or not they can turn that around. Nothing done or nor done at the deadline would have changed that. If your "best players" aren't playing up to par, you're not going to cover that up with deadline acquisitions.

The trade deadline has and will always be an overblown "excuse". The teams that win the World Series hit a stride at the right time when seemingly everyone on the roster is locked in and performing. I also don't put any worth into non-baseball logic like "yeah well if we made blockbuster additions, the guys on the roster would get hyped and start playing better!". The only one who can help Bo Bichette start hitting is Bichette himself.

As mentioned above, the Padres are 1-6 since Soto and company joined the team. They got swept by the Dodgers and have scored a total of 4 runs over their past 4 games (including being shut-out in their last two games). The Mariners have done slightly better; going 3-3 since their trade-deadline push (including two losses to the lowly Angels). There is nothing "magical" about winning the trade-deadline or out-acquiring your supposed competition.

 

[phillipmike]

One of the reasons why I hope the Jays look at trading for Bryan Reynolds in the offseason. Again BTV isn't perfect but you should be able to get him around a package of Jansen + Martinez + Zulu for example. Springer's bat plays at any OF spot, and Teo is a free agent after next season and Gurriel 2024. The Jays don't exactly have any OF prospects on the cusp either so having Springer's bat at any of the corner spots is fine.

Ideally you trade for Reynolds using the above deal for example, and then you trade Teo/Gurriel in a package with say Moreno + for an ace on the market if they miss out on Verlander/Rodon. Move forward with Springer, Reynolds and one of Gurriel/Teo.

I like Reynolds too for this reason as well though i thought BTV had Moreno as the value for Reynolds. If you acquire a real CF, Springer moves to RF/DH. Gurriel and Teo are unfortunately both free agents at the end of next season so we have to figure out what to do in 2024. Jays were close to trading Teo last off-season so i assume they made a contract offer and it wasnt close to what Teo's camp wants. So the Jays were hoping to move him. Its possible none of our 2022 OFs are starting on OD 2024.

I was looking for a left handed hitting CF, with good defense, potential in his bat and could be had and the only name that checks all the boxes is Bellinger. Back to back underwhelming seasons with a price tag of $17M+, im not sure the Dodgers bring him back. On a 1 year deal, i roll the dice if he gets $20M in arb. You may want to move one of Gurriel or Teo to recover assets before they walk for nothing or just roll with an OF of Gurriel-Bellinger-Teo with Whit as you primary CF backup, and maybe Tapia if you want to bring him back. Springer will be your DH with the odd corner OF start.

Then in 2024 you might have to rebuild the entire OF. Maybe Otto Lopez moves to the OF full time. Hopefully Brown develops and can be our elite CFer. Maybe Adrian Hernandez continues to progress and becomes an option as well. Or you are going back to free agency or making a trade. Would be nice to have a cheap option developed from within like Teo and Gurriel were.

 

[MAB1]

I like Reynolds too for this reason as well though i thought BTV had Moreno as the value for Reynolds. If you acquire a real CF, Springer moves to RF/DH. Gurriel and Teo are unfortunately both free agents at the end of next season so we have to figure out what to do in 2024. Jays were close to trading Teo last off-season so i assume they made a contract offer and it wasnt close to what Teo's camp wants. So the Jays were hoping to move him. Its possible none of our 2022 OFs are starting on OD 2024.

I was looking for a left handed hitting CF, with good defense, potential in his bat and could be had and the only name that checks all the boxes is Bellinger. Back to back underwhelming seasons with a price tag of $17M+, im not sure the Dodgers bring him back. On a 1 year deal, i roll the dice if he gets $20M in arb. You may want to move one of Gurriel or Teo to recover assets before they walk for nothing or just roll with an OF of Gurriel-Bellinger-Teo with Whit as you primary CF backup, and maybe Tapia if you want to bring him back. Springer will be your DH with the odd corner OF start.

Then in 2024 you might have to rebuild the entire OF. Maybe Otto Lopez moves to the OF full time. Hopefully Brown develops and can be our elite CFer. Maybe Adrian Hernandez continues to progress and becomes an option as well. Or you are going back to free agency or making a trade. Would be nice to have a cheap option developed from within like Teo and Gurriel were.

Gurriel is a free agent the year after Teo, it's not the same year. Reynolds is a switch hitter if I remember correctly too.

 

[Kurtz]

As mentioned above, the Padres are 1-6 since Soto and company joined the team. They got swept by the Dodgers and have scored a total of 4 runs over their past 4 games (including being shut-out in their last two games). The Mariners have done slightly better; going 3-3 since their trade-deadline push (including two losses to the lowly Angels). There is nothing "magical" about winning the trade-deadline or out-acquiring your supposed competition.

We need to be better at avoiding using these sort of tiny sample sizes as an argument.

Everyone was like "oh those games against Baltimore will be easy. They'll have already sold off everyone by then"

Baseball is a cruel mistress. If people don't hate the O's by the end of this season I suggest they learn. Because they're only going to get better from here.

.As for Kikuchi...at some point you need to cut your losses. It's wild a guy who has been way below average outside of like a 2 month stretch last season gets that many chances. It should be White and Stripling at the back of the rotation once the latter is back from his hopefully brief DL stint

Kikuchi can have another chance when he learns to locate a fastball more than once a game.

That Kikuchi-Thorton-Richards combo we used yesterday...not gonna beat too many teams with that. Should win today though looking at the pitching matchup.

 

[TMLeafer]

Sale broke his wrist in a bicycle accident. Yikes!

 

[metafour]

We need to be better at avoiding using these sort of tiny sample sizes as an argument.

Of course, but it was a tongue-in-cheek response to concluding that we "didn't do enough at the deadline" because we lost some games. Ultimately, the team that did THE MOST at the deadline (they won it!) has been 1-6. Are their players not hyped about getting Soto? I don't understand? Did they not acquire themselves over the Dodgers?

The Blue Jays have a very obvious problem this year. The overall success or failure of the season is going to rely on key players playing up to their expected performance. Even hypothetically adding Soto doesn't magically fix this team when you see large stretches where 3-4-5 guys in the lineup are all just flailing their bats around and no one in the bullpen can get outs consistently.

The main "thing" about the success of the 2015 Blue Jays wasn't the acquisition of David Price, it was the fact that that roster (particularly the offense) was firing on all cylinders both before AND after the trade deadline. Under that scenario, adding David Price is nice. Adding David Price on the other hand doesn't do much if your team simply isn't playing at a World Series pace overall, which is what you're seeing this season.