Blue Jays Discussion: The trade deadline approaches (Tue, Aug 2 at 6pm ET/3pm PT) and the market is taking shape

[Tufted Titmouse]

Getting a legit prospect to replace Groshans who is younger and projects to be better imo and Mitchell White who helps the big club now who is under control for 5 years for Nick Frasso and Brito is a shrewd move albeit not a huge deal but it’s very solid

I hate giving up Frasso, though. Had a lot of fun following the rise of that electric arm.

 

[Eyedea]

Based on depth charts projections the Jays are 1.3-1.4 fWAR behind the Yanks and Astros, while the next AL team behind the Jays are the Rays (1.6 behind), White Sox (2.0 behind), and Mariners (2.7 behind). These numbers are fairly negligible and is illustrated in the variability of postseason baseball. Otherwise the Dodgers would just win every year.

 

[Bjindaho]

Excitement over deadline additions spur Gausman, Blue Jays in win vs. Rays

The guys they brought in — relievers Anthony Bass and Zach Pop, starter Mitch White and the versatile Whit Merrifield — made for a sensible, if not sexy deadline haul. Each helps to fortify various roster gaps and protect against injury while also augmenting the talent base for next year and...

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Kurtz]

Agreed. I think the focus should be on maintaining a competitive window for as long as possible, rather than trying to be THE best team on paper for one year, but then take a big step back the next few years due to all the value sent out the door for short-term going all in type of moves.

Not to mention, this team HAS been making big moves, they just haven't been at the trade deadline. Springer, Chapman, Berrios, Gausman, etc weren't drafted and developed internally, or signed for cheap and then broke out after coming here. They were all big moves.

See, the problem is that we have the pieces to win right now, and we have a number of team-friendly deals right now. Teoscar, Gurriel, Vladdy and Bo are playing for free right now but will get very expensive very soon. Springer is being held together by duct tape - his situation is unlikely to get better.

So the time to strike is actually now. This reminds me of when the Leafs had Matthews and Marner playing like superstars on their rookie deals - and we couldn't take advantage, and largely waived it away with "we have time". Well, we do and we do not...

I understand not parting with all of your top prospects like for example Seattle did. But some opportunities were out there that cost nothing but cash. For example AA snuck in and got Iglesias for only $$. We couldn't have done that? We have the 11th highest payroll in the majors - you're telling me we couldn't afford Iglesias? Hell, Ryu's insurance money (assuming he was insured) would have more than covered that expense.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

See, the problem is that we have the pieces to win right now, and we have a number of team-friendly deals right now. Teoscar, Gurriel, Vladdy and Bo are playing for free right now but will get very expensive very soon. Springer is being held together by duct tape - his situation is unlikely to get better.

So the time to strike is actually now. This reminds me of when the Leafs had Matthews and Marner playing like superstars on their rookie deals - and we couldn't take advantage, and largely waived it away with "we have time". Well, we do and we do not...

I understand not parting with all of your top prospects like for example Seattle did. But some opportunities were out there that cost nothing but cash. For example AA snuck in and got Iglesias for only $$. We couldn't have done that? We have the 11th highest payroll in the majors - you're telling me we couldn't afford Iglesias? Hell, Ryu's insurance money (assuming he was insured) would have more than covered that expense.

Ross Atkin's group has never and will never pay that kind of money for a setup reliever.

 

[canucksfan]

See, the problem is that we have the pieces to win right now, and we have a number of team-friendly deals right now. Teoscar, Gurriel, Vladdy and Bo are playing for free right now but will get very expensive very soon. Springer is being held together by duct tape - his situation is unlikely to get better.

So the time to strike is actually now. This reminds me of when the Leafs had Matthews and Marner playing like superstars on their rookie deals - and we couldn't take advantage, and largely waived it away with "we have time". Well, we do and we do not...

I understand not parting with all of your top prospects like for example Seattle did. But some opportunities were out there that cost nothing but cash. For example AA snuck in and got Iglesias for only $$. We couldn't have done that? We have the 11th highest payroll in the majors - you're telling me we couldn't afford Iglesias? Hell, Ryu's insurance money (assuming he was insured) would have more than covered that expense.

Iglesias is signed for three more years. Don’t think they want to pay 16 million each year for a declining bullpen asset.

 

[Amadeus]

Our management team wants a sustained winner and is afraid to go all in ala SD, who do it quite too often. The thing is, they've now left their farm system completely bare and are in a world of hurt if they don't get it done.

I'm good with our trade deadline.

 

[stats1]

Yeah Atkins has never and will never pay a huge amount of money for a reliever, he’s said numerous times. Philosophically he doesn’t believe in that when running a ball club. So Iglesias was probably a guy would take on if we got Sundergaard. Iglesias on his own was never in the plans

“Syndergaard’

 

[canucksfan]

If Zulueta can be a valuable piece in the pen that would be a big plus.

 

[Bjindaho]

Fun fact: If the playoffs started today, Robbie Ray wouldn't be allowed to pitch in them.

 

[MAB1]

See, the problem is that we have the pieces to win right now, and we have a number of team-friendly deals right now. Teoscar, Gurriel, Vladdy and Bo are playing for free right now but will get very expensive very soon. Springer is being held together by duct tape - his situation is unlikely to get better.

So the time to strike is actually now. This reminds me of when the Leafs had Matthews and Marner playing like superstars on their rookie deals - and we couldn't take advantage, and largely waived it away with "we have time". Well, we do and we do not...

I understand not parting with all of your top prospects like for example Seattle did. But some opportunities were out there that cost nothing but cash. For example AA snuck in and got Iglesias for only $$. We couldn't have done that? We have the 11th highest payroll in the majors - you're telling me we couldn't afford Iglesias? Hell, Ryu's insurance money (assuming he was insured) would have more than covered that expense.

We got a reliever better and cheaper than Iglesias and you're complaining?

I can tell there's a decent amount of you Leaf fans thinking the Jays should operate like the Leafs should/did.

I don't understand how someone can watch a young core get rushed into win-now mode and ruin their future flexibility/outlook, and now have a two year window till their best player leaves (lets be honest, the Leafs haven't had proper cap flexibility since the Tavares signing) and then insist on doing the same with another young core and not learn from the mistakes.

The Jays aren't the Leafs...thank god for that. Their best players are 22-24 and will be around for a decade + if they continue building correctly. Some of you act like you're dying in 4 years with the whole time is now bs.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Kurtz]

Iglesias is signed for three more years. Don’t think they want to pay 16 million each year for a declining bullpen asset.

I know they don't want to pay for the BP and it's been a fatal flaw for us for years, and they still haven't learn from their failures on that front.

And a guy having an off-year doesn't automatically make him a declining asset, especially as he had his best year only last year.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Why bring in Merrifield though?

Vax status notwithstanding, it's yet another right-handed bat, which was the LAST thing this team needed.

Also not sure where he fits in the lineup, since the Jays didn't move any other bats yesterday.

Was this just Atkins going bargain-hunting, to say "hey look at least we did something, eh"?

They needed a lefty bat more than anything else, and didn't get one. The bullpen arms + Mitch White could be solid adds, at least.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Which teams scare you in a short series?

The Yankees have the pitching, but I think they are a toss-up at worst. Houston is a very good team.

Minnesota acquired Mahle (who is now their #1 starter) and two bullpen pieces (who are now their 2 bullpen pieces).

Seattle got Castillo to join Gilbert and Ray. Their BP has less swing and miss than Toronto's and they didn't fix any of the positions where they start a sub-replacement level player (Merrifield would ironically have been a big upgrade for them).

Chicago and Cleveland did nothing.

Tampa got better behind the plate and added a little depth. They have good pitching for the playoffs but might be in tough offensively.

On top of this, 1 of these teams will miss the playoffs.

Not really scared of anyone. I really like our team, and I liked it since winter time. I want to see a showdown between us and the Yanks in the playoffs and see which team was right with their approach to the deadline.

 

[stats1]

Like I said in a previous post. This wasn’t a time to go all in, Atkins job isn’t on the line. Both he and Shapiro signed long term extensions, the Rogers Centre is getting a huge makeover. They’re bidding on the 2027 all-star game. This team wants to be a contender not just for a couple of years but sustained success like the Dodgers. Sure LA spends a ton on payroll but they always have a top farm system for either trades or to keep costs from getting out of control

 

[Kurtz]

We got a reliever better and cheaper than Iglesias and you're complaining?

I can tell there's a decent amount of you Leaf fans thinking the Jays should operate like the Leafs should/did.

I don't understand how someone can watch a young core get rushed into win-now mode and ruin their future flexibility/outlook, and now have a two year window till their best player leaves (lets be honest, the Leafs haven't had proper cap flexibility since the Tavares signing) and then insist on doing the same with another young core and not learn from the mistakes.

The Jays aren't the Leafs...thank god for that. Their best players are 22-24 and will be around for a decade + if they continue building correctly. Some of you act like you're dying in 4 years with the whole time is now bs.

That's an absurd take. The idea that we shouldn't bother trying to significantly improve ourselves right now because some of our best players are still very young is on its face ridiculous. We're in our contention window right now. We should be trying to win right now.

And no, Bass is not better than Iglesias. Some of you keep falling for tiny sample sizes and there's nothing that can snap you out of it, seemingly. Btw our BP could have used both Bass and Iglesias, it's simple-minded to posit this as a choice between the two.

 

[canucksfan]

I know they don't want to pay for the BP and it's been a fatal flaw for us for years, and they still haven't learn from their failures on that front.

And a guy having an off-year doesn't automatically make him a declining asset, especially as he had his best year only last year.

I do agree that has been a flaw. However, I don’t think Iglesias would be the best target.

 

[Bjindaho]

I know they don't want to pay for the BP and it's been a fatal flaw for us for years, and they still haven't learn from their failures on that front.

And a guy having an off-year doesn't automatically make him a declining asset, especially as he had his best year only last year.

Iglesias has lost 1.4MPH on his pitches this year.

 

[stats1]

Also Springer contract is going to become an issue down the road. Guy has 4 years left and his elbow is hanging by a thread, plus he missed a ton of time last year.

 

[Kurtz]

Iglesias has lost 1.4MPH on his pitches this year.

He's at 95.3 for the year. He's at 95.4 for his career.

Romano's velocity is also down. Is he a declining asset too?

I guess by a certain morbid logic, we're all declining assets.

 

[stats1]

Merifield provides some insurance for the rest of this year and next

 

[Bjindaho]

That's an absurd take. The idea that we shouldn't bother trying to significantly improve ourselves right now because some of our best players are still very young is on its face ridiculous. We're in our contention window right now. We should be trying to win right now.

And no, Bass is not better than Iglesias. Some of you keep falling for tiny sample sizes and there's nothing that can snap you out of it, seemingly. Btw our BP could have used both Bass and Iglesias, it's simple-minded to posit this as a choice between the two.

I wanted both, but only in the scenario where we pay little to nothing (and eat the money).

LAA got a reliever having a better year than Iglesias (Chavez) and Atlanta's 23rd prospect (13th preseason). The equivalent would be Garcia or Phelps and someone like Zulueta.

For whatever reason, even the salary dumps had fairly high values.

 

[MAB1]

That's an absurd take. The idea that we shouldn't bother trying to significantly improve ourselves right now because some of our best players are still very young is on its face ridiculous. We're in our contention window right now. We should be trying to win right now.

And no, Bass is not better than Iglesias. Some of you keep falling for tiny sample sizes and there's nothing that can snap you out of it, seemingly. Btw our BP could have used both Bass and Iglesias, it's simple-minded to posit this as a choice between the two.

What were the Jays weaknesses going into the deadline? BP help and a spare OF in case Springer needs IL time.
What did the Jays do? In: Bass (better than Iglesias, but keep being in denial), Pop (Cimber, Mayza, Phelps type arm + more potential), White (similar #'s and stuff to Syndergaard, more control), Merrifield (if he can get back on track he's more than a spare OF).

None of the arms available were worth their top 2 prospects. Juan Soto sucks missing out on but at the end of the day, the Yankees, Dodgers, Padres, Jays, Cardinals were all in on him and only one team can get him.

The Jays are trying to win right now, they're a top 3 AL, top 6 team in all of MLB, would be the division leader in 2 out of the 6 divisions. And their best players are here for a while. Go follow the Leafs if you wanna see a rushed build.

 

[canucksfan]