The Tank Megathread | 8 | The Tank Awakens

[valkynax]

But imagine how much experience McCann and Jake will soak up in 8 minutes of ice time in the first 2 periods of the game. I mean, no one ever said you had to actually *play* in the playoffs to get playoff experience right? I imagine the McPlan will have McCann and Virtanen swapping in every game anyway so that Vrbata hide on the ice on the Horvat line and Vey can get his 18+ minutes running the PP and scoring into his own net.

And we can hear all about how it was all worth it because Jake and Jared got to sit on the bench and/or practice with the team and "experience" the playoffs.

I can kinda understand playoff experience for young players.

But is it not more beneficial to aim for that goal once a team gained a player or two with franchise level talent?

The hypothesis of keeping all our vets and trading prospects/2016 picks away for Ladd has become terrifyingly plausible.

 

[me2]

At this point I care more about the WC teams staying ahead than I do about teams behind us catching up. While the latter would be nice, missing playoffs is more important in terms of at least securing a top 8-14 pick and giving management the public black eye that they deserve for this stupid playoff chase. Somehow Toronto's brain trust of Lamorello and Mike Babcock with who even knows how many cups between them are idiots and quitters for having the sense to call a spade a spade and chase a high pick and convert assets into more picks. But our management team with a Rookie President, Rookie GM, and Rookie Coach are brilliant in their dogged pursuit of a playoff spot.

Rookies get immunity.

 

[kanucks25]

So many tank related games... my god.

NJD @ PHI (need PHI win)
BOS @ MIN (need MIN win)
TOR @ VAN (need TOR win)
NSH @ FLA (need NSH win)
NYI @ CAR (need CAR win)
OTT @ CBJ (need OTT win in OT)
WPG @ EDM (need WPG win in OT)
ARI @ SJS (need ARI win in OT)

If we get lucky and things go right it could be an incredible day for the tank.

 

[Horse McHindu]

So many tank related games... my god.

NJD @ PHI (need PHI win)
BOS @ MIN (need MIN win)
TOR @ VAN (need TOR win)
NSH @ FLA (need NSH win)
NYI @ CAR (need CAR win)
OTT @ CBJ (need OTT win in OT)
WPG @ EDM (need WPG win in OT)
ARI @ SJS (need ARI win in OT)

If we get lucky and things go right it could be an incredible day for the tank.

First off - even if your 'tank' plan comes to fruition, the Canucks likely won't fall far enough to be in the Auston Matthews sweepstakes. Even if they did fall far enough, the new lottery system decreases the probability anyways.

You don't seem to understand that it sends a horrible message to kids when management deliberately tries to tank via veteran sell off.

IF the Canucks are 6+ points out of playoff contention in a few weeks when the deadline hits, then by all means, sell off Vrbata and maybe even Hamhuis if you can get him to resign in the off-season (i.e. The "Vermette" route).

Other than that though, the mindset should be to try and make the playoffs and get the kids some playoff exposure.......even if it means getting spanked by LA or Chicago in the first round. If amateur scouting is strong (as is the case for the Canucks), then drafting solid picks in later rounds won't be a problem anyways (as appears to be the case with guys like McCann and Demko).

 

[MikeK]

But imagine how much experience McCann and Jake will soak up in 8 minutes of ice time in the first 2 periods of the game. I mean, no one ever said you had to actually *play* in the playoffs to get playoff experience right? I imagine the McPlan will have McCann and Virtanen swapping in every game anyway so that Vrbata hide on the ice on the Horvat line and Vey can get his 18+ minutes running the PP and scoring into his own net.

And we can hear all about how it was all worth it because Jake and Jared got to sit on the bench and/or practice with the team and "experience" the playoffs.

Yep. Sad to see we've essentially become the Oilers under MacT and Lowe. Makes me sick and angry to see a team like T.O going in the right direction while we keep chasing our own dirty tail. The leafs Oilers and Flames will all be better than us in very short order while our team becomes the laughing stock of the league. That playoff experience tho...

 

[Horse McHindu]

The hypothesis of keeping all our vets and trading prospects/2016 picks away for Ladd has become terrifyingly plausible.

No....it hasn't.

Only in the minds of people who clearly do not understand Benning's plan.

I guarantee that if Benning is a buyer at the deadline, it will be in one of the following scenarios:

1) A 2nd round pick for a once highly talented prospect that hasn't quite lived up to expectations as of yet (i.e. A Baertschi/Emerson type guy).

2) A 'hockey deal' for a solid young player aged 22-25 that can help the team both short term and long term.

3) A 4th, or 5th round pick for a Brandon Prust type guy that might be able to provide some veteran presence/toughness if the Canucks have a shot of making the playoffs.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Yep. Sad to see we've essentially become the Oilers under MacT and Lowe. Makes me sick and angry to see a team like T.O going in the right direction while we keep chasing our own dirty tail. The leafs Oilers and Flames will all be better than us in very short order while our team becomes the laughing stock of the league. That playoff experience tho...

You don't understand Benning's plan, or possibly even hockey.

 

[Love]

One of the biggest games of the year today. An absolute must lose game.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Knock off the BS.

 

[Canucker]

No....it hasn't.

Only in the minds of people who clearly do not understand Benning's plan.

I guarantee that if Benning is a buyer at the deadline, it will be in one of the following scenarios:

1) A 2nd round pick for a once highly talented prospect that hasn't quite lived up to expectations as of yet (i.e. A Baertschi/Emerson type guy).

2) A 'hockey deal' for a solid young player aged 22-25 that can help the team both short term and long term.

3) A 4th, or 5th round pick for a Brandon Prust type guy that might be able to provide some veteran presence/toughness if the Canucks have a shot of making the playoffs.

lol...it's not that they "do not understand" Benning's "plan", its that they've seen enough to know that it's a ridiculous plan meant to struggle along and try an squeak its way into the playoffs every year without any real focus on cup contention.

 

[dman34]

We have just lost Edler and Sutter for basically the rest of the season. There is zero chance we compete for a cup this year. I see nothing wrong with saying to the team - "guys, you gave it your all, but because of these injuries we really don't have a shot this season so we are going to trade our UFA vets to improve our chances moving forward".

I don't believe that this sends the wrong message at all. The goal here is win the cup. Not just squeak in and bow out in the first round. Asset management is extremely important in the cap era. You can't just let your ufa vets go and get nothing for them. Astute asset management sends a better message to the team than attempting to win with a group of players that's only destined to fail.

Benning and Linden are fools if they believe we have the horses to win a round in the playoffs. Bowing out in 4 or 5 games - that does nothing but hurt the psyche of a young team.

Is a few extra mill for Aquallini really worth stunting our rebuild? These guys really need to take a step back here and forget about the short term gain here and do what's best for the team and it's future.

Fans like you are bad for the sport. Period.

First off - even if your 'tank' plan comes to fruition, the Canucks likely won't fall far enough to be in the Auston Matthews sweepstakes. Even if they did fall far enough, the new lottery system decreases the probability anyways.

Fans like you don't seem to understand that it sends a horrible message to kids when management deliberately tries to tank via veteran sell off.

IF the Canucks are 6+ points out of playoff contention in a few weeks when the deadline hits, then by all means, sell off Vrbata and maybe even Hamhuis if you can get him to resign in the off-season (i.e. The "Vermette" route).

Other than that though, the mindset should be to try and make the playoffs and get the kids some playoff exposure.......even if it means getting spanked by LA or Chicago in the first round. If amateur scouting is strong (as is the case for the Canucks), then drafting solid picks in later rounds won't be a problem anyways (as appears to be the case with guys like McCann and Demko).

 

[Canucker]

You don't understand Benning's plan, or possibly even hockey.

You are the one championing Benning's management plan of (sub-)mediocrity, I don't think you should be questioning anyone's understanding of hockey.

 

[Soups On]

Regardless of where this team stands on TDL day, Vrbata should be traded. Willie refuses to put him with the Sedin's and for $5 million, he simply hasn't been worth it. It would be addition by subtraction both short term and long term. If Benning wants the team in the playoffs it should be on the backs of the young guys. Wouldn't that be a good experience for their development?

If Benning doesn't trade Hammer, I won't be too upset. With Edler going down, trading Hamhuis leaves the defence in absolute shambles. Perfect for a tank, not for his intentions. Ideally Hamhuis is traded for a 1st+ and is re-signed in the offseason.

Immediate post-deadline lineup could look something like this:

Sedin Sedin Hansen
Baertschi Horvat Virtanen
Burrows Vey Etem
Zalewski/Gaunce McCann Dorsett
Cracknell

Hutton Tanev
Sbisa Biega
Pedan Bart/Weber

Markstrom
Miller

It's a young lineup expected to miss the playoffs. However, if the Canucks make the playoffs it'll be entirely on the secondary scoring from the young guys and despite most of in this thread wanting a really high draft pick, it would be really cool to see a team as going as the Canucks make the playoffs as an 8th seed.

Ultimately, go team tank and young players. Don't add veterans or trade away valuable picks Jimbo.

 

[Nuckles]

lol @ Connor McHindu saying people don't understand hockey, and thinking Benning has a logical plan.

 

[LeftCoast]

We are currently sitting in the 8th draft spot. I'm beginning to wonder if there is really that much of a difference between 4 and 10 in this draft.

Matthews, Laine and Puljujarvi are clearly the top 3 with Matthews the consensus #1.

The next tier include Tkachuk, Chychrun, McLeod, Juolevi and Nylander - but in what order?

• Tkachuck is usually ranked first among these, but is he being carried (a little) by his linemates?
  
• Chychrun has consistently been the top tanked D, but he has dropped over the year from a consensus #2 to #4 or #5 or later. But he's not bullet proof. Are his earlier shoulder issues a cause for concern? His number are very good, but not elite.
  
• McLeod in comparison has shot up the rankings. He seems to be a very complete player with a highly desirable mix of skill, speed, size, physicality and hockey smarts.
  
• Joulevi is my favorite D in this draft. While his physical package isn't as good as Chychrun's, he is a very smart player who can be reliable in his own end and a threat in the O-zone.
  
• Nylander - seems to look a lot like his brother. That's not a bad thing.

So if we end up drafting 7th or 8th, and have a choice of one of these guys, I'd be quite happy as I think that even with a full on tank, we are unlikely to out tank the bottom 3.

 

[CanaFan]

First off - even if your 'tank' plan comes to fruition, the Canucks likely won't fall far enough to be in the Auston Matthews sweepstakes. Even if they did fall far enough, the new lottery system decreases the probability anyways.

You don't seem to understand that it sends a horrible message to kids when management deliberately tries to tank via veteran sell off.

IF the Canucks are 6+ points out of playoff contention in a few weeks when the deadline hits, then by all means, sell off Vrbata and maybe even Hamhuis if you can get him to resign in the off-season (i.e. The "Vermette" route).

Other than that though, the mindset should be to try and make the playoffs and get the kids some playoff exposure.......even if it means getting spanked by LA or Chicago in the first round. If amateur scouting is strong (as is the case for the Canucks), then drafting solid picks in later rounds won't be a problem anyways (as appears to be the case with guys like McCann and Demko).

You seem to put a LOT of emphasis on this "message sending". You do realize it's only one of dozens of things at play here right? I ask because you talk about it like its the only thing that impacts the fortunes of the team. But you are ignoring:

- the talent that can be acquired for these expiring contracts. You could have 6 games of "playoff experience" and whatever nebulous impact that has on the young players development (likely none) OR you can potentially add another Jared McCann to your roster for the next 10-15 years.

- the higher pick that arises as a result of missing. Yes maybe we draft a dud at 8 and someone grabs the next Larkin at 15. We all know this is *possible*. It is also possible to win the lottery but I'm not planning to quit my job because it is *possible*. The reality is the odds of finding the next Larkin or Nylander or whatever are *better* at 8 than 15.

- the increased opportunity for the young kids to play in more situations by trading vets like Vrbata. If you are so concerned about the kids getting "valuable experience" perhaps you should apply some of that thinking to other aspects of their development like playing the PP, the PK, playing in OT, playing with the goalie out, playing in the final minute with a one goal lead. Those are also valuable learning experiences for the kids however no one seems to lament the lack of opportunities that they are getting so far.

- The message it sends when a veteran player like Vrbata sulks and slumps his way to a $5M payday and continuous ice time, PP time, etc yet has been absolutely invisible all season. Wouldn't it be a better "message" to move him out and show the kids that if you play like a pouty baby there is no place for you on this team? Instead he gets chance after chance while McCann and Virtanen swap in and out of the line up and eke out 8-10 minutes of mostly 5v5 time each game. And we're not in Game 1 of the season anymore, it's Game 54. I think a better "message" for the kids would be to show some ****ing faith and confidence in them, rather than all this talk about how we can't trade Radim Vrbata or else we might not make the playoffs.

There's more to consider than the one myopic "message" that you bring up in 99% of your posts in this thread.

 

[Canucker]

We are currently sitting in the 8th draft spot. I'm beginning to wonder if there is really that much of a difference between 4 and 10 in this draft.

Matthews, Laine and Puljujarvi are clearly the top 3 with Matthews the consensus #1.

The next tier include Tkachuk, Chychrun, McLeod, Juolevi and Nylander - but in what order?

• Tkachuck is usually ranked first among these, but is he being carried (a little) by his linemates?
  
• Chychrun has consistently been the top tanked D, but he has dropped over the year from a consensus #2 to #4 or #5 or later. But he's not bullet proof. Are his earlier shoulder issues a cause for concern? His number are very good, but not elite.
  
• McLeod in comparison has shot up the rankings. He seems to be a very complete player with a highly desirable mix of skill, speed, size, physicality and hockey smarts.
  
• Joulevi is my favorite D in this draft. While his physical package isn't as good as Chychrun's, he is a very smart player who can be reliable in his own end and a threat in the O-zone.
  
• Nylander - seems to look a lot like his brother. That's not a bad thing.

So if we end up drafting 7th or 8th, and have a choice of one of these guys, I'd be quite happy as I think that even with a full on tank, we are unlikely to out tank the bottom 3.

I agree with this...it'd be nice to get any of those picks, but getting into the top 3 would be ideal, whether by sucking hard or getting lucky with the lottery...would be nice if a defenseman really emerged as a competitor for a top 3 spot....although that might just help the Oilers more than us unfortunately.

 

[LeftCoast]

I agree with this...it'd be nice to get any of those picks, but getting into the top 3 would be ideal, whether by sucking hard or getting lucky with the lottery...would be nice if a defenseman really emerged as a competitor for a top 3 spot....although that might just help the Oilers more than us unfortunately.

I think top 5 is possible - we would have to out suck Ottawa, Calgary and Winnipeg, but for top 3 we would likely have run into even more injury problems to another core player (Tanev/Hutton/Hammer) or have the Horvat line go cold - and I really wouldn't wish for those to happen.

 

[Nuckles]

For the anti-tankers coming in here, here's my simple reasoning for being anti-playoff push.

1. This team isn't that good. We're near the bottom of the league in multiple statistics, most notably we're tied for 2nd worst in Regulation and Overtime wins (18). We just lost a top pairing d-man for a good chunk of the remainder of the season, a position we were very weak in to begin with. If we somehow sneak into a playoff spot it will likely be another early 1st round exit against Chicago or LA. It won't be good playoff exposure to the kids, they will likely be scratched or get less than 7 minutes TOI in the games they get to play.

2. If we sell there's a real possibility to get a late 1st and late 2nd for Hamhuis+Vrbata. There's also a very real possibility that we lose Vrbata and maybe even Hamhuis for nothing if we don't trade them.

3. There is a drop off in talent after the 10th/11th pick in the draft, and a much bigger drop after the 17th/18th pick.

I think an early 1st, late 1st, early 2nd, late 2nd, and early 3rd would be much better for the long term success of our team than a mid 1st + mid 2nd (assuming we don't trade it) and yet another quick 1st round exit (assuming we make the playoffs).

Edit: I forgot to include that we could pull a Vermette and sign Hamhuis again in the off-season if we trade him. He loves BC, but pushing him out may convince him to permanently leave.

 

[NucksRuleYep]

My suggestion... report all posts in this thread from anti-tankers.

And vice-versa, anti-tankers should report all posts in their anti-tank thread from tankers.

These forums are turning into quite the crap storm with these dueling sides.

Can't we all just get along

 

[LeftCoast]

^^^ I'd add to my esteemed tank commander's comments and say

Trading Vrbata isn't necessarily tanking. He's not having a positive impact on the team anyways. He is now a $5M 3rd line winger. He is also NOT going to re-sign here again. But before we trade him, play him with the Sedins for a few games and feed him some offense to increase his value.

Hamhuis is a bit different. With Edler out of the line up, Hamhuis and Tanev are the only reliable veterans. I also think it important to lay the ground work for re-signing or extending him in June or July. We don't have a lot of defensive prospects and any young D we bring in could benefit from playing with the likes of Tanev, Edler and Hamhuis. I would discuss this with Hammer and try to trade him to a contender such as Washington and re-sign him in the summer. If he doesn't bite on this, then extend him ASAP.

We have some promising young prospects in Utica. It would be really nice to have a look at them at the NHL level prior to training camp. I acknowledge Benning's argument that playoff experience is important for the young players on the team, but NHL experience is equally important for our prospects in Utica. Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Zalewski, Subban, Pedan and Fedun are all going to come into training camp next year with a shot at making the team. Gaunce and Zalewski look to be very close to ready for a bottom 6 role, and Shinkaruk is not far behind where Baertschi was last year.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Strategically selling at the deadline isn't tanking imo. Hopefully Benning is able to move a few of Vrbata, Burrows, Higgins, Prust, Bartkowski, Weber, etc.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

There's more to consider than the one myopic "message" that you bring up in 99% of your posts in this thread.

I love the implication from that poster, and others, that the players are emotional and intellectual simpletons who need to have clear "messages" transmitted to them at all times from the organization, lest their fragile psyches end up forever spoiled by a few weeks playing for a losing team. By contrast I'm sure playing for such a capable, well-oiled machine of a hockey club this season (lol) has done wonders for their message-consumption.

Since others have restated their reasons for favouring a tank, I'll do the same.

1) This team is bad. They will be crushed if they make the playoffs. This will be painful to watch.

2) By far the most common method of acquiring first line talent is drafting it in the first 5 picks of the draft.

3) This team needs first-line talent to replace the Sedins. We don't have that talent right now.

3) This management team will cripple the organization until they are fired, losing will hopefully speed up their removal.

Seems straightforward. It's never fun to cheer for your team to lose, but this is where we're at.

 

[Cupless44]

Regardless of where this team stands on TDL day, Vrbata should be traded. Willie refuses to put him with the Sedin's and for $5 million, he simply hasn't been worth it. It would be addition by subtraction both short term and long term. If Benning wants the team in the playoffs it should be on the backs of the young guys. Wouldn't that be a good experience for their development?

If Benning doesn't trade Hammer, I won't be too upset. With Edler going down, trading Hamhuis leaves the defence in absolute shambles. Perfect for a tank, not for his intentions. Ideally Hamhuis is traded for a 1st+ and is re-signed in the offseason.

Immediate post-deadline lineup could look something like this:

Sedin Sedin Hansen
Baertschi Horvat Virtanen
Burrows Vey Etem
Zalewski/Gaunce McCann Dorsett
Cracknell

Hutton Tanev
Sbisa Biega
Pedan Bart/Weber

Markstrom
Miller

It's a young lineup expected to miss the playoffs. However, if the Canucks make the playoffs it'll be entirely on the secondary scoring from the young guys and despite most of in this thread wanting a really high draft pick, it would be really cool to see a team as going as the Canucks make the playoffs as an 8th seed.

Ultimately, go team tank and young players. Don't add veterans or trade away valuable picks Jimbo.

Good, sensible post and what should be happening.

The Sedins are slowing down, and it is the young guys who are starting to score anyways.

 

[Cupless44]

I agree with this...it'd be nice to get any of those picks, but getting into the top 3 would be ideal, whether by sucking hard or getting lucky with the lottery...would be nice if a defenseman really emerged as a competitor for a top 3 spot....although that might just help the Oilers more than us unfortunately.

I will settle for a top 10 pick, no goofy trades as buyers, and selling our UFAs before they walk for free.

Playoffs are a moot point with me. Getting predictably pounded in the 1st round does absolutely nothing for me anymore. I find it more embarrassing than good because this team is just not capable of raising the intensity to required playoff level.