The Tank Megathread | 8 | The Tank Awakens

[Trelane]

My suggestion... report all posts in this thread from anti-tankers.

And vice-versa, anti-tankers should report all posts in their anti-tank thread from tankers.

These forums are turning into quite the crap storm with these dueling sides.

Can't we all just get along

Always thought verbal scraps, if done in semi civilized fashion, were the raison d'être of bulletin boards the net over. "Safe space" is no less a BS concept here then it is in any other physical gathering place. The anti and pro tank threads should be unified and let the dust fall where it may.

 

[SgtToody]

First off - even if your 'tank' plan comes to fruition, the Canucks likely won't fall far enough to be in the Auston Matthews sweepstakes. Even if they did fall far enough, the new lottery system decreases the probability anyways.

You don't seem to understand that it sends a horrible message to kids when management deliberately tries to tank via veteran sell off.

IF the Canucks are 6+ points out of playoff contention in a few weeks when the deadline hits, then by all means, sell off Vrbata and maybe even Hamhuis if you can get him to resign in the off-season (i.e. The "Vermette" route).

Other than that though, the mindset should be to try and make the playoffs and get the kids some playoff exposure.......even if it means getting spanked by LA or Chicago in the first round. If amateur scouting is strong (as is the case for the Canucks), then drafting solid picks in later rounds won't be a problem anyways (as appears to be the case with guys like McCann and Demko).

Only a few radicals here are talking about getting management to go beyond the basic plan -- which was to encorporate youth into the lineup, not WDee's press box -- so a lot of what you say is likely. But pt. 1 - I remember Kenny Williams decision to sell off and go young when his White Sox were just 6 games back of first and 6 weeks or more left; his team would a few years later, if I recall, would win the World Series.
Pt. 2 - most of us on this thread believe that bringing a few more rookies (Gaunce, Pedan, maybe Grenier or Zewlewski) and replacing inconsistent 3rd and 4th liners isn't a white flag; it could actually work against our hope of falling in the standings, but at least it would be consistent with the talk Linden, Benning said at the start of the season.
3rd- the line of thinking from Benning and WD has serious flaws; a short taste of playoffs is crucial for the rookies/ young guys, but at the same time actually playing them in playoff-like games while chasing a playoff spot, well they're not ready or strong enough. Players need to 'cook' a full season down on the farm, while stiffs who aren't producing/contributing can continue to rot the roster.
The Canucks plan is all over the place, and those of us who see the recent team success, ie. Commissioner trophy, SC finalists, are all linked to a few strong drafts with picks at or near the bottom are the main reasons why...

 

[RandV]

With Edler out, Hamhuis/Biega in, our defense is actually less mistake prone.

I predict canucks will win more than people here think.

Win tonight 3rd in a roll.

Yes not like we had much of Sutter this season either.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

You deceided to focus on periods of time that have nothing to do with the teams becoming good. You missed Hedman with Tampa, or lecavalier when the team actually won.

Chicago was bad because of terrible ownership and management. It wasn't until these things change that the team became better, sound familar? Like Edm? or Buffalo? Neither of those teams are good yet, but both look close, and both have gone through huge management change lately.

LA was similar, but you focussed on Gretzky era? He retired in 99 after a few years with a few other teams, I think it was 96? Thats 20 years ago. It would be like me saying the Canucks suck because of Bure...

You have to have good management. This stems from good owners. If you don't have those two things nothing matters. You can tank, you can make trades whatever, you are sunk and will be bad. Right now we look to be more headed towards bad sad days in Edm than now when they have a chance (I am not convinced the have good management yet) to become a good team.

Because their prior history it what led to them being forced into a rebuild. Even with Toews, it took another three years before Chicago finally made the playoffs. People seem to believe we can trade away everyone and within a couple years, bam, instant juggernaut. Not only did each and every current success story have multiple seasons how horrible irrelevance, they did so in an era where you were guaranteed 1st overall more or less. Nowadays, it's a meager 20%

And no, actually, it does not. You can criticise our management all you fancy, but they aren't even in the same stratosphere as what Chicago endured. Frankly, how bad Benning is has been grossly exaggerated because apparently getting Vatanen out of Anaheim was as simple as asking.

I also cited Kopitar, where LA basically lucked into drafting him. Nice of you to skimp over that detail though.

What does Hedman have to do with my rebuttal? Tampa's success has primarily come from the triple line and Bishop. Hedman is absolutely a factor, but they found talent far below the first round.

 

[SgtToody]

Because their prior history it what led to them being forced into a rebuild. Even with Toews, it took another three years before Chicago finally made the playoffs. People seem to believe we can trade away everyone and within a couple years, bam, instant juggernaut. Not only did each and every current success story have multiple seasons how horrible irrelevance, they did so in an era where you were guaranteed 1st overall more or less. Nowadays, it's a meager 20%

And no, actually, it does not. You can criticise our management all you fancy, but they aren't even in the same stratosphere as what Chicago endured. Frankly, how bad Benning is has been grossly exaggerated because apparently getting Vatanen out of Anaheim was as simple as asking.

I also cited Kopitar, where LA basically lucked into drafting him. Nice of you to skimp over that detail though.

What does Hedman have to do with my rebuttal? Tampa's success has primarily come from the triple line and Bishop. Hedman is absolutely a factor, but they found talent far below the first round.

Benning's trade record speaks for itself - for every Baertschi he turned a solid 2-way Dman into Vey and free money to spend on ... Miller? Asset management and winning a few trades contributed to the team's 2010-12 run; the Sedins are most likely gone by the time Vancouver is relevant in any SC discussion. And even though McCann, Bo, Hutton, Shinky etc all look like real deals there remains a lot of growth to go. Getting another top-6 draft pick can only help.
But then again, last years 'valuable' playoff experience has made such a difference this season!

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Benning's trade record speaks for itself - for every Baertschi he turned a solid 2-way Dman into Vey and free money to spend on ... Miller? Asset management and winning a few trades contributed to the team's 2010-12 run; the Sedins are most likely gone by the time Vancouver is relevant in any SC discussion. And even though McCann, Bo, Hutton, Shinky etc all look like real deals there remains a lot of growth to go. Getting another top-6 draft pick can only help.
But then again, last years 'valuable' playoff experience has made such a difference this season!

Because a new GM wants to go into a season with two unproven goaltenders, one of whom has never played more than a handful of NHL games and struggled significantly throughout each one? You have to consider Benning came into this organization seeing Lack collapsed hard after succeeding Luongo. While he may still be adored here, he's also struggled in Carolina most of the season. They brought in Miller as a stabilizing presence. Granted, I don't like the contract, but at the time Miller was by far the best goalie available. So I can appreciate why he did. Frankly, we wouldn't be having this discussion if Gillis showed a damn backbone and smacked Torts upside the head when he had the genius idea of starting Lack over Lu at the Heritage Classic.

I certainly won't argue Benning's record is somewhat spot at best, but thus far more than a few of his gambles are paying dividends. Regardless, no team will intentionally tank if they can avoid doing so. Ownership will not allow it. And this is true of any organization. Look at the laughable season Montreal is having. Molson isn't forcing a tank despite the fact this may be the only season Montreal could realistically accomplish one given how phenomenal Carey Price is. What matters to them is profitability. Even Toronto has only embraced the rebuild saga because they literally have no choice.

 

[geebaan]

Because a new GM wants to go into a season with two unproven goaltenders, one of whom has never played more than a handful of NHL games and struggled significantly throughout each one? You have to consider Benning came into this organization seeing Lack collapsed hard after succeeding Luongo. While he may still be adored here, he's also struggled in Carolina most of the season. They brought in Miller as a stabilizing presence. Granted, I don't like the contract, but at the time Miller was by far the best goalie available. So I can appreciate why he did. Frankly, we wouldn't be having this discussion if Gillis showed a damn backbone and smacked Torts upside the head when he had the genius idea of starting Lack over Lu at the Heritage Classic.

I certainly won't argue Benning's record is somewhat spot at best, but thus far more than a few of his gambles are paying dividends. Regardless, no team will intentionally tank if they can avoid doing so. Ownership will not allow it. And this is true of any organization. Look at the laughable season Montreal is having. Molson isn't forcing a tank despite the fact this may be the only season Montreal could realistically accomplish one given how phenomenal Carey Price is. What matters to them is profitability. Even Toronto has only embraced the rebuild saga because they literally have no choice.

Pretty sure Buffalo owners allowed it last year.

 

[valkynax]

Because a new GM wants to go into a season with two unproven goaltenders, one of whom has never played more than a handful of NHL games and struggled significantly throughout each one? You have to consider Benning came into this organization seeing Lack collapsed hard after succeeding Luongo. While he may still be adored here, he's also struggled in Carolina most of the season. They brought in Miller as a stabilizing presence. Granted, I don't like the contract, but at the time Miller was by far the best goalie available. So I can appreciate why he did. Frankly, we wouldn't be having this discussion if Gillis showed a damn backbone and smacked Torts upside the head when he had the genius idea of starting Lack over Lu at the Heritage Classic.

I certainly won't argue Benning's record is somewhat spot at best, but thus far more than a few of his gambles are paying dividends. Regardless, no team will intentionally tank if they can avoid doing so. Ownership will not allow it. And this is true of any organization. Look at the laughable season Montreal is having. Molson isn't forcing a tank despite the fact this may be the only season Montreal could realistically accomplish one given how phenomenal Carey Price is. What matters to them is profitability. Even Toronto has only embraced the rebuild saga because they literally have no choice.

I think our neighbor to the east whose name must not be said would respectfully disagree with that notion.

Jokes aside, I feel that how this season will finish and how the team will proceed in the summer will be of critical importance - our current generation core is pretty much done, that much we know. I absolutely hate the notion of tank, but what I despise and loath far more is the fact that the draft pick system actively encourages tanking and rewards teams that are astonishingly incompetent (again, our neighbor to the east). And this system is unlikely to change, ever. So we're left with the choice of either hold on to our dignity and keep trying and failing, or...tank...

To me it is not that I like to watch a team that operates like a panzer division, it just angers me greatly to see other teams racking up picks after picks by slothing through the league, do as little as possible and leech off the talent pool like a bunch of parasites.

 

[kanucks25]

0.5/2 so far Minny is tanking hard.

 

[CanaFan]

Haha, Charles Barkley on HNIC just endorsed team tank saying teams these days either need to be really good or really bad, being in the middle is the worst (badly paraphrased). Not sure if Barkley helps or hurts our credibility though ...

 

[LeftCoast]

Leftcoast: can we submit this letter to the province?

Sure - but it won't get published.

 

[Knight53]

Lets get the tank back on track, no better team to lose to than the leafs!

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Pretty sure Buffalo owners allowed it last year.

They were already an awful team. Selling off assets when you already suck isn't embracing a tank. It's accepting the inevitable and getting value. People here have been demanding we tank since game one.

I think our neighbor to the east whose name must not be said would respectfully disagree with that notion.

Jokes aside, I feel that how this season will finish and how the team will proceed in the summer will be of critical importance - our current generation core is pretty much done, that much we know. I absolutely hate the notion of tank, but what I despise and loath far more is the fact that the draft pick system actively encourages tanking and rewards teams that are astonishingly incompetent (again, our neighbor to the east). And this system is unlikely to change, ever. So we're left with the choice of either hold on to our dignity and keep trying and failing, or...tank...

To me it is not that I like to watch a team that operates like a panzer division, it just angers me greatly to see other teams racking up picks after picks by slothing through the league, do as little as possible and leech off the talent pool like a bunch of parasites.

Never attribute to intent that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I am not entirely opposed to tanking for the precise reasons you said, however we do not necessarily need to toil in perpetual failure to have success. This season? Yeah, I think we're better off selling assets. Next season though I'm not going to say we should aim for tanking the moment the puck drops. Frankly, I don't feel the core is finished quite yet. The Sedins look like they may very well maintain this level of consistency throughout their 30s. With the way Horvat, McCann and Hutton are coming along. We could realistically be in the mix of things far soon than anticipated.

 

[Nuckles]

Haha, Charles Barkley on HNIC just endorsed team tank saying teams these days either need to be really good or really bad, being in the middle is the worst (badly paraphrased). Not sure if Barkley helps or hurts our credibility though ...

Barkley for GM! He can't be much worse than what we currently have...

 

[Knight53]

HAHA leafs chant

 

[CanaFan]

I accept that we will 99% win this game. That Leaf's line up is just too putrid. But it will say a lot about our prospects down the stretch if its not a 3-4 goal win. This cream puff schedule will end soon and based on what i've seen of this team at home ... well i wouldn't expect a whole lotta winning then.

 

[Shareefruck]

Always thought verbal scraps, if done in semi civilized fashion, were the raison d'être of bulletin boards the net over. "Safe space" is no less a BS concept here then it is in any other physical gathering place. The anti and pro tank threads should be unified and let the dust fall where it may.

 

[Nuckles]

Minnesota just fired their head coach, so hopefully they turn things around soon.

 

[Knight53]

This is embarrassing hockey

 

[y2kcanucks]

This is embarrassing hockey

I love it!

 

[CanaFan]

Minnesota just fired their head coach, so hopefully they turn things around soon.

Just saw that. Sure hope so. They've gone from a playoff lock to trending towards Matthews. Don't need the extra competition thanks.

 

[timw33]

OMG. The direct CBC feed is so good tonight, you can hear Jim, Craig, and Glenn all talking during the breaks.

Jim: "Told you, this is going to be a 2-1 game...*sigh*
Glenn: "So sloppy, why wouldn't you double shift the Sedins?"
Craig: "Willie drives me absolutely nuts"
Jim: "TV timeout...offensive zone faceoff, and you put Linden Vey out? Come on"

These guys all know what's up.

 

[KeninsFan]

Things Benning was right about:

Vey is the 2C after 1.5 seasons
Sbisa is a top 4 dman after 1.5 seasons

 

[y2kcanucks]

Things Benning was right about:

Vey is the 2C after 1.5 seasons
Sbisa is a top 4 dman after 1.5 seasons

Not because they deserve to be.

 

[CanaFan]

Not because they deserve to be.

Well he never did say it would be because they *deserved* it. Good ol' loopholes.