The Tank Megathread | 8 | The Tank Awakens

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Canucker

Go Hawks!
Oct 5, 2002
25,621
4,844
Oak Point, Texas
I will settle for a top 10 pick, no goofy trades as buyers, and selling our UFAs before they walk for free

Obviously we'll get what we get but I'd rather stink our way into as good a pick as possible....I really dislike the fact we beat out Calgary last season and ended up picking 8 spots after them because we beat them by 4 points in the standings...I like Boeser as a prospect but I'd be happier with Barzal or Connor.

I do agree that I'd like to see our UFA's sold and no dumb buying trades.
 

GPNuck

Registered User
Nov 25, 2013
3,867
49
this thread is pointless on a day where we play the Marlies I hope Toronto ends up picking 4th and we somehow win the lottery
 

Fat Tony

Fire Benning
Nov 28, 2011
3,012
0
Since it is clear which direction TO is taking, cheering for a Leafs win is cheering against their interests.
 

VanillaCoke

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
25,619
12,160
Im cheering full force for an 8 game losing streak. **** Benning and his maybe "adding" at the tdl.....
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,695
15,117
With Edler and Sutter now gone for next 6-8 weeks, which is essentially the season, is it realistic to have playoff aspirations?.....sure the kids can plug the gap for awhile, but playing tough games down the stretch against desperate teams, the dam has to burst eventually doesn't it?....does this affect what JB does at the deadline?
 

pahlsson

Registered User
Mar 22, 2012
9,957
474
dont care about feelings towards the laffs or whatever, a loss against toronto might just be the sobering loss this team needs to dispel any misguided playoff push
 

ahmon

Registered User
Jun 25, 2002
10,394
1,944
Visit site
With Edler out, Hamhuis/Biega in, our defense is actually less mistake prone.

I predict canucks will win more than people here think.

Win tonight 3rd in a roll.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,311
6,065
Vancouver
With Edler out, Hamhuis/Biega in, our defense is actually less mistake prone.

I predict canucks will win more than people here think.

Win tonight 3rd in a roll.

Short term sure, I agree most likely a win tonight, but long term, I am not sure about that. Plus I feel some of the games we won without Hamhuis we only win cause Markstrom stood on his head. I don't see him starting as much, and once miller starts to tire, his numbers will also drop.

Long run I think we are worse, but I think unfortunately short term here we will do pretty well. Closing in on deadline day, that sucks.
 

LeftCoast

Registered User
Aug 1, 2006
9,052
304
Vancouver
Open letter to Trevor Linden, Jim Benning and Francesco Aquilini;

We, the long suffering fans of the Vancouver Canucks, implore you to realistically assess the team’s short term and long term fortunes and make the difficult, but sensible decisions with respect to the 2015-16 NHL trade deadline.

Realistically, based on current standing and historical trends, it’s going to take at least 95 points to finish in the top 3 in the Pacific division and likely 88 to 90 points to finish in the 2nd Wild Card spot. Since only Toronto has fewer ROW points, the team will lose the tie breaker to any team in the Division except maybe Edmonton. To make the playoffs this season, the Canucks will therefore have to finish the remaining 28 games with an 18-10-0 record (a .642 pace) Considering that up until this point of the season, the team is on a 0.518 pace and has not put together 3 wins in a row this year, we think it very unlikely that the team is going to make the playoffs. Wishful thinking is not a strategy.

The team often plays lip service to the ‘knowledgeable” fans in the Vancouver market who hold the team to a fairly high standard. I think the fans are knowledgeable, sophisticated and would support a rebuild under the right conditions. In fact I would propose that there has never been a time in the history of the team that the fan base is more ready for a rebuild under the right conditions. Those conditions are that there is a sensible and realistic plan moving forward. Currently, we don’t see this. What we see is a dramatically improved pool of good, but not elite, young prospects and a plan to try to make the playoffs every year while incrementally improving. But fans understand that no team has won a Stanley Cup in recent years without elite players – the type that are generally only available in the top 3 or top 5 picks of the NHL draft. We currently have Daniel and Henrik, but they are 36 years old.

Fans are energized about players such as Hutton, Horvat, Virtanen, McCann and Baertschi, and in our development system players like Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Subban, Boeser, Demko, Pedan, Fedun, Tryamkin, Cassels etc. show promise. But we also realize that without a top 3 draft pick, there is little chance of replacing the impact of a player like Henrik Sedin when he retires. Without replacing Henrik and adding a near Norris calibre defender, the Canucks will be on the bubble to make the playoffs for the foreseeable future. These players are rarely available outside of the top 3 or top 5 in the NHL entry draft or via free agency.

We also understand that hockey is a business. But if attendance is down despite a 100 point season and making the playoffs in 2014-15, it’s probably because fans understand the above calculus and are pessimistic about the future of the team. From a business perspective, would it not make sense to forego, perhaps a 30% chance of hosting 3 home playoff games this season, to build the talent base for more consistent and extended playoff runs in the future? If we don’t do the right thing this year, we will likely be back in exactly the same position next year. From what we the fans have seen of ownership, missing the playoffs 2 of 3 years has not turned out well for previous front offices.

So are we saying the Canucks should ‘tank’? No – we don’t think any athlete should play in an environment where the goal is not to win every contest. But there are players who don’t seem much interested in winning every contest – Radim Vrbata comes to mind. His trade value however is dropping faster than his position on the depth chart. A few games with the Sedins to bolster his offensive numbers could return the team a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline. Matt Bartkowski, despite his beautiful skating and his mom’s entertaining interview, is not to our eyes significantly better than Andrey Pedan or even Jordan Subban. Does Adam Cracknell have a future with the team next year? If not, why not try Brendan Gaunce or Matt Zalewski in that slot?

Should we trade or waive all of our core veterans? No – young players need to develop in a positive environment and need mentors and leaders around them. Prior to Alex Edler being injured, there was a strong argument to discuss his NTC with Dan Hamhuis. Trading Hammer, to a contending team like the Capitals could potentially return a late first round pick. With Edler on the shelf, this is still an intriguing option, but it runs the risk of gutting the D and putting too much pressure on Tanev and Hutton. If we are to call up a prospect like Pedan, Fedun or Subban, they would benefit from the steadying influence of Tanev, Hammer and Hutton (yes a rookie!). Regardless of what is done on this front, every effort should be made to re-sign Hamhuis in June/July.
 

Nuckles

_________
Apr 27, 2010
28,521
4,338
heck
Open letter to Trevor Linden, Jim Benning and Francesco Aquilini;

We, the long suffering fans of the Vancouver Canucks, implore you to realistically assess the team’s short term and long term fortunes and make the difficult, but sensible decisions with respect to the 2015-16 NHL trade deadline.

Realistically, based on current standing and historical trends, it’s going to take at least 95 points to finish in the top 3 in the Pacific division and likely 88 to 90 points to finish in the 2nd Wild Card spot. Since only Toronto has fewer ROW points, the team will lose the tie breaker to any team in the Division except maybe Edmonton. To make the playoffs this season, the Canucks will therefore have to finish the remaining 28 games with an 18-10-0 record (a .642 pace) Considering that up until this point of the season, the team is on a 0.518 pace and has not put together 3 wins in a row this year, we think it very unlikely that the team is going to make the playoffs. Wishful thinking is not a strategy.

The team often plays lip service to the ‘knowledgeable†fans in the Vancouver market who hold the team to a fairly high standard. I think the fans are knowledgeable, sophisticated and would support a rebuild under the right conditions. In fact I would propose that there has never been a time in the history of the team that the fan base is more ready for a rebuild under the right conditions. Those conditions are that there is a sensible and realistic plan moving forward. Currently, we don’t see this. What we see is a dramatically improved pool of good, but not elite, young prospects. Fans understand that no team has won a Stanley Cup in recent years without elite players – the type that are generally only available in the top 3 or top 5 picks of the NHL draft. We currently have Daniel and Henrik, but they are 36 years old.

Fans are energized about players such as Hutton, Horvat, Virtanen, McCann and Baertschi, and in our development system players like Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Subban, Boeser, Demko, Pedan, Fedun, Tryamkin, Cassels etc. show promise. But we also realize that without a top 3 draft pick, there is little chance of replacing the impact of a player like Henrik Sedin when he retires. Without replacing Henrik and adding a near Norris calibre defender, the Canucks will be on the bubble to make the playoffs for the foreseeable future. These players are rarely available outside of the top 3 or top 5 in the NHL entry draft or via free agency.

We also understand that hockey is a business. But if attendance is down despite a 100 point season and making the playoffs in 2014-15, it’s probably because fans understand the above calculus and are pessimistic about the future of the team. From a business perspective, would it not make sense to forego, perhaps a 30% chance of hosting 3 home playoff games this season, to build the talent base for more consistent and extended playoff runs in the future? If we don’t do the right thing this year, we will likely be back in exactly the same position next year. From what we the fans have seen of ownership, missing the playoffs 2 of 3 years has not turned out well for previous front offices.

So are we saying the Canucks should ‘tank’? No – we don’t think any athlete should play in an environment where the goal is not to win every contest. But there are players who don’t seem much interested in winning every contest – Radim Vrbata comes to mind. His trade value however is dropping faster than his position on the depth chart. A few games with the Sedins to bolster his offensive numbers could return the team a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline. Matt Bartkowski, despite his beautiful skating and his mom’s entertaining interview, is not to our eyes significantly better than Andrey Pedan or even Jordan Subban. Does Adam Cracknell have a future with the team next year? If not, why not try Brendan Gaunce or Matt Zalewski in that slot?

Should we trade or waive all of our core veterans? No – young players need to develop in a positive environment and need mentors and leaders around them. Prior to Alex Edler being injured, there was a strong argument to discuss his NTC with Dan Hamhuis. Trading Hammer, to a contending team like the Capitals could potentially return a late first round pick. With Edler on the shelf, this is still an intriguing option, but it runs the risk of gutting the D and putting too much pressure on Tanev and Hutton. If we are to call up a prospect like Pedan, Fedun or Subban, they would benefit from the steadying influence of Tanev, Hammer and Hutton (yes a rookie!). Regardless of what is done on this front, every effort should be made to re-sign Hamhuis in June/July.

lol you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Jim Benning is an NHL General Manager for a reason, and you are not.

:sarcasm:
 

Canucker

Go Hawks!
Oct 5, 2002
25,621
4,844
Oak Point, Texas
Short term sure, I agree most likely a win tonight, but long term, I am not sure about that. Plus I feel some of the games we won without Hamhuis we only win cause Markstrom stood on his head. I don't see him starting as much, and once miller starts to tire, his numbers will also drop.

Long run I think we are worse, but I think unfortunately short term here we will do pretty well. Closing in on deadline day, that sucks.

I read today that San Jose is looking for a goalie, wouldn't it be nice to send Miller on down? Dreaming the impossible dream. :laugh:
 

Canucker

Go Hawks!
Oct 5, 2002
25,621
4,844
Oak Point, Texas
Open letter to Trevor Linden, Jim Benning and Francesco Aquilini;

We, the long suffering fans of the Vancouver Canucks, implore you to realistically assess the team’s short term and long term fortunes and make the difficult, but sensible decisions with respect to the 2015-16 NHL trade deadline.

Realistically, based on current standing and historical trends, it’s going to take at least 95 points to finish in the top 3 in the Pacific division and likely 88 to 90 points to finish in the 2nd Wild Card spot. Since only Toronto has fewer ROW points, the team will lose the tie breaker to any team in the Division except maybe Edmonton. To make the playoffs this season, the Canucks will therefore have to finish the remaining 28 games with an 18-10-0 record (a .642 pace) Considering that up until this point of the season, the team is on a 0.518 pace and has not put together 3 wins in a row this year, we think it very unlikely that the team is going to make the playoffs. Wishful thinking is not a strategy.

The team often plays lip service to the ‘knowledgeable†fans in the Vancouver market who hold the team to a fairly high standard. I think the fans are knowledgeable, sophisticated and would support a rebuild under the right conditions. In fact I would propose that there has never been a time in the history of the team that the fan base is more ready for a rebuild under the right conditions. Those conditions are that there is a sensible and realistic plan moving forward. Currently, we don’t see this. What we see is a dramatically improved pool of good, but not elite, young prospects and a plan to try to make the playoffs every year while incrementally improving. But fans understand that no team has won a Stanley Cup in recent years without elite players – the type that are generally only available in the top 3 or top 5 picks of the NHL draft. We currently have Daniel and Henrik, but they are 36 years old.

Fans are energized about players such as Hutton, Horvat, Virtanen, McCann and Baertschi, and in our development system players like Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Subban, Boeser, Demko, Pedan, Fedun, Tryamkin, Cassels etc. show promise. But we also realize that without a top 3 draft pick, there is little chance of replacing the impact of a player like Henrik Sedin when he retires. Without replacing Henrik and adding a near Norris calibre defender, the Canucks will be on the bubble to make the playoffs for the foreseeable future. These players are rarely available outside of the top 3 or top 5 in the NHL entry draft or via free agency.

We also understand that hockey is a business. But if attendance is down despite a 100 point season and making the playoffs in 2014-15, it’s probably because fans understand the above calculus and are pessimistic about the future of the team. From a business perspective, would it not make sense to forego, perhaps a 30% chance of hosting 3 home playoff games this season, to build the talent base for more consistent and extended playoff runs in the future? If we don’t do the right thing this year, we will likely be back in exactly the same position next year. From what we the fans have seen of ownership, missing the playoffs 2 of 3 years has not turned out well for previous front offices.

So are we saying the Canucks should ‘tank’? No – we don’t think any athlete should play in an environment where the goal is not to win every contest. But there are players who don’t seem much interested in winning every contest – Radim Vrbata comes to mind. His trade value however is dropping faster than his position on the depth chart. A few games with the Sedins to bolster his offensive numbers could return the team a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline. Matt Bartkowski, despite his beautiful skating and his mom’s entertaining interview, is not to our eyes significantly better than Andrey Pedan or even Jordan Subban. Does Adam Cracknell have a future with the team next year? If not, why not try Brendan Gaunce or Matt Zalewski in that slot?

Should we trade or waive all of our core veterans? No – young players need to develop in a positive environment and need mentors and leaders around them. Prior to Alex Edler being injured, there was a strong argument to discuss his NTC with Dan Hamhuis. Trading Hammer, to a contending team like the Capitals could potentially return a late first round pick. With Edler on the shelf, this is still an intriguing option, but it runs the risk of gutting the D and putting too much pressure on Tanev and Hutton. If we are to call up a prospect like Pedan, Fedun or Subban, they would benefit from the steadying influence of Tanev, Hammer and Hutton (yes a rookie!). Regardless of what is done on this front, every effort should be made to re-sign Hamhuis in June/July.

Well said. :handclap:
 

Trelane

Registered User
Feb 12, 2013
1,987
42
Salusa Secundus
We are currently sitting in the 8th draft spot. I'm beginning to wonder if there is really that much of a difference between 4 and 10 in this draft.

Matthews, Laine and Puljujarvi are clearly the top 3 with Matthews the consensus #1.

The next tier include Tkachuk, Chychrun, McLeod, Juolevi and Nylander - but in what order?

  • Tkachuck is usually ranked first among these, but is he being carried (a little) by his linemates?
  • Chychrun has consistently been the top tanked D, but he has dropped over the year from a consensus #2 to #4 or #5 or later. But he's not bullet proof. Are his earlier shoulder issues a cause for concern? His number are very good, but not elite.
  • McLeod in comparison has shot up the rankings. He seems to be a very complete player with a highly desirable mix of skill, speed, size, physicality and hockey smarts.
  • Joulevi is my favorite D in this draft. While his physical package isn't as good as Chychrun's, he is a very smart player who can be reliable in his own end and a threat in the O-zone.
  • Nylander - seems to look a lot like his brother. That's not a bad thing.

So if we end up drafting 7th or 8th, and have a choice of one of these guys, I'd be quite happy as I think that even with a full on tank, we are unlikely to out tank the bottom 3.

Pretty much. There are three team we ain't catching even if the club pulled a complete 180 and embraced the tank in words and deeds (e.g. shut down Hank for the season due to injuries). Picks 4-8 are about the same tier. Some safety margin there since GM said there are 11 and later 16 top 6/4.

Injuries to Edler and Sutter make our playoff odds prohibitive and they were poor to begin with, no matter how much we whip the Leafs today.

Reserving some hope that this Benning talk is just bravado, last appeal and motivation for the rank and file to go on a run, failing which, he'll do the sensible thing and make more future oriented moves. Apparent unwillingness to tank now doesn't hurt his trade bargaining position if they end up selling.

Alls I ask is:
-don't EVER trade the 1st
-don't ever trade the 2nd, unless it's for stud prospect (pedigree at Bae level minimum)
-don't trade the 3rd, unless it's for a pretty good prospect
-trade Vrby for a 2nd or equivalent
-trade as many of Higgins, Prust, Weber for anything
-trade Hammer for 1st or equivalent, OK if waiting right up to deadline/inevitability of playoff run fail sinks in
 

CanaFan

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
19,887
5,849
BC
Pretty much. There are three team we ain't catching even if the club pulled a complete 180 and embraced the tank in words and deeds (e.g. shut down Hank for the season due to injuries). Picks 4-8 are about the same tier. Some safety margin there since GM said there are 11 and later 16 top 6/4.

Injuries to Edler and Sutter make our playoff odds prohibitive and they were poor to begin with, no matter how much we whip the Leafs today.

Reserving some hope that this Benning talk is just bravado, last appeal and motivation for the rank and file to go on a run, failing which, he'll do the sensible thing and make more future oriented moves. Apparent unwillingness to tank now doesn't hurt his trade bargaining position if they end up selling.

Alls I ask is:
-don't EVER trade the 1st
-don't ever trade the 2nd, unless it's for stud prospect (pedigree at Bae level minimum)
-don't trade the 3rd, unless it's for a pretty good prospect
-trade Vrby for a 2nd or equivalent
-trade as many of Higgins, Prust, Weber for anything
-trade Hammer for 1st or equivalent, OK if waiting right up to deadline/inevitability of playoff run fail sinks in

This all seem right to me. I don't feel I'm being childish or impatient with my expectations for the rest of this season. I'm not asking for Benning to ship every player over 30 out, I'm not asking for Matthews, I'm not asking for the kids to play 20 minutes a night.

I simply want the kids to get regular, productive minutes down the stretch and no more "McPlan" bs, a reasonable attempt to recoup value on Vrbata and Hamhuis, and for a pick in the 7-11 range of the draft.

I feel this will benefit the team in both the short and long term over riding the vets like whipped mules to chase a playoff spot that they are unlikely to even get let alone do anything meaningful with.

As Mike Babcock said in his first presser with the Leafs "Our goal is not to compete for playoffs, our goal is to compete for the Stanley Cup". Sometimes it is more efficient to take a step back to take two steps forward rather than chase futile short term goals. And if guys like Babcock and Lamorello can get behind that type of thinking then I think people should stop dismissing it as "Oilers thinking" all the time.
 
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