The Race for the Calder Trophy

[ORRFForever]

and really cleaned up his shift changes almost instantly. they were pretty bad up until 2-3 games ago.

holy sh*t his team sucks though. I feel like we're scratching the very surface of what we can see from him. imagine being an 18 year old and your team is so bad that every team you face can focus primarily on you because the rest of the roster is no threat. it's remarkable that he's at almost a point per game.

Spot on.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Well it was said more like.. oh he's "only" going to be this as if it was disappointing, but because he put up more points, then he is a step above.

Idk why I am even arguing this, its not that important. I like the player.

Hjalmarsson was my direct comparable to Faber over the summer. The other comparison was being a #2 McDonagh type. Right now, it's leaning more McDonagh than Hjalmarsson. I'm not gonna be upset either way if he ends up like those guys.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Hjalmarsson was my direct comparable to Faber over the summer. The other comparison was being a #2 McDonagh type. Right now, it's leaning more McDonagh than Hjalmarsson. I'm not gonna be upset either way if he ends up like those guys.

McDonagh is not a comparable player in my eyes, though I understand the general sentiment I think.

 

[mlzy]

Yeah I was loathe to mention just because of the limited amount of games he actually played.

27 gp, 7 and 15

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Disclaimer: as a Hawks fan I'm biased.

The points that Bedard is younger than the other top-15 rookie scorers, with only Zack Benson being the only other who will be still be 18 through the entire season. Leo Carlsson is still 18 but turns 19 next week.

The top rookie scorers and their age, games played and points:

1, Bedard - 18 - 30 - 26
2. Rossi - 22 - 28 - 17
3. Fantilli - 19 - 32 - 17
4. Zary - 22 - 21 - 16
5. Voronkov - 23 - 26 -16
6. l.Hughes - 20 - 29 - 16
7. Mintyukov - 20 - 30 - 16
8. Cooley - 19 - 30 - 16
9. Evangelista - 20 - 30 - 15
10. Carlsson - 18 - 21 - 14
11. Brink - 22 - 25 - 14
12. Knies - 21 - 26 - 13
13. Poitras - 19 - 27 - 13
14. Faber - 21 - 28 - 12
15. Foerster - 21 - 29 - 12

It' just age - it's what each player has done to get stronger and develop their game with the time that Bedard has not had yet.

 

[AKL]

Disclaimer: as a Hawks fan I'm biased.

The points that Bedard is younger than the other top-15 rookie scorers, with only Zack Benson being the only other who will be still be 18 through the entire season. Leo Carlsson is still 18 but turns 19 next week.

The top rookie scorers and their age, games played and points:

1, Bedard - 18 - 30 - 26
2. Rossi - 22 - 28 - 17
3. Fantilli - 19 - 32 - 17
4. Zary - 22 - 21 - 16
5. Voronkov - 23 - 26 -16
6. l.Hughes - 20 - 29 - 16
7. Mintyukov - 20 - 30 - 16
8. Cooley - 19 - 30 - 16
9. Evangelista - 20 - 30 - 15
10. Carlsson - 18 - 21 - 14
11. Brink - 22 - 25 - 14
12. Knies - 21 - 26 - 13
13. Poitras - 19 - 27 - 13
14. Faber - 21 - 28 - 12
15. Foerster - 21 - 29 - 12

It' just age - it's what each player has done to get stronger and develop their game with the time that Bedard has not had yet.

Yeah but the Calder trophy doesn't go to the best 18 year old, it goes to the best rookie. Being 18 shouldn't matter here, as we should only be looking at who the best player is this season.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Disclaimer: as a Hawks fan I'm biased.

The points that Bedard is younger than the other top-15 rookie scorers, with only Zack Benson being the only other who will be still be 18 through the entire season. Leo Carlsson is still 18 but turns 19 next week.

The top rookie scorers and their age, games played and points:

1, Bedard - 18 - 30 - 26
2. Rossi - 22 - 28 - 17
3. Fantilli - 19 - 32 - 17
4. Zary - 22 - 21 - 16
5. Voronkov - 23 - 26 -16
6. l.Hughes - 20 - 29 - 16
7. Mintyukov - 20 - 30 - 16
8. Cooley - 19 - 30 - 16
9. Evangelista - 20 - 30 - 15
10. Carlsson - 18 - 21 - 14
11. Brink - 22 - 25 - 14
12. Knies - 21 - 26 - 13
13. Poitras - 19 - 27 - 13
14. Faber - 21 - 28 - 12
15. Foerster - 21 - 29 - 12

It' just age - it's what each player has done to get stronger and develop their game with the time that Bedard has not had yet.

Yes, it is not HATE for Bedard to imply that overcoming 3-4 years of prime development time is some sure thing that his talent alone can overcome in the context of this season. In the context of being an 18 year old in the NHL, Bedard's season is outstanding for overall production. If you treat the Calder like the Art Ross, its no contest. If you treat it like the Hart or Conn Smyth and adjust for personal overall impact, its quite possible to conclude others are worthy candidates.

 

[Dust]

Yeah but the Calder trophy doesn't go to the best 18 year old, it goes to the best rookie. Being 18 shouldn't matter here, as we should only be looking at who the best player is this season.

Luckily in his case, he's both 18 and the best player. Sometimes it just works out that way.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It's because the way some people on our board were talking during the offseason, you'd think he was going to be a Charlie McAvoy type all situations 1D. The counter was that some people expected more of a Niklas Hjalmarsson type, excellent defensive, but low offensive guy. It turns out he could end up somewhere between, because the offense is more impressive than we initially thought.

McDonagh-ish.

 

[Dust]

This is a power of hype.

We are talking about this current season. If we could be gm who can trade picks for only one season and playoff of young player to make the team better only for now - for this season, not for 8-10 years, we are close to win SC, we have opportunity to trade for only one young player, and after he will go to the market - it wouldn't be Bedard. Teams will prefer Faber, Hughes, Zary, Nemec or Rossi. Because all of them are playing more competent two way game, they can be real middle six players or second pair defensemen. And they can compete. Bedard is good, skills are good, he is flashy. But he and Fantilli are not your guys to make your roster better for the big hunt. Now, in the moment of time. But we are talking about Calder, ofcourse Bedard will learn how to be competent 200 foot player. But for now he isn't best rookie. He is the productivest. Yeah, he is great for 18 yo, not so great for winning games now.

And of course Bedard will win it. Because its nhl.

I think you are mistaken about both of those points you are trying to make. Teams would take Bedard over all of those guys listed, even if just for the playoffs. And I think as the season goes along, the gap will only widen between Bedard and the rest of the rookies. He's the youngest player, he's the most productive player (with absolutely no help on his team) and he is improving.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

McDonagh-ish.

Boo, you should stand by your words, you were the first one to make the McAvoy comparison. I still don't think its accurate but its closer than McDonagh IMO and you were at least early on it.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Boo, you should stand by your words, you were the first one to make the McAvoy comparison. I still don't think its accurate but its closer than McDonagh IMO and you were at least early on it.

Sure wasn't.

 

[Fraser28]

Yes, it is not HATE for Bedard to imply that overcoming 3-4 years of prime development time is some sure thing that his talent alone can overcome in the context of this season. In the context of being an 18 year old in the NHL, Bedard's season is outstanding for overall production. If you treat the Calder like the Art Ross, its no contest. If you treat it like the Hart or Conn Smyth and adjust for personal overall impact, its quite possible to conclude others are worthy candidates.

Actually, if you turn it into the Hart or Conn Smyth of rookies, it’s even MORE in Bedard’s favor. He’s leading his team in pretty much every stat. and producing with very limited help. He’s pretty much the team.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Yeah but the Calder trophy doesn't go to the best 18 year old, it goes to the best rookie. Being 18 shouldn't matter here, as we should only be looking at who the best player is this season.

Valid point but it's usually awarded to the highest scoring rookie unless the scoring race is close where then other considerations can come into play - much like the Norris where it is mostly the points scored rather than how well he plays in his d-zone.

My comment was in reaction to other posts that were putting an emphasis on other parts of the game over scoring. As a Hawks fan I don't have to go too far back in history to find a Calder winner who scored the most but never played defense - he wore #88 for the Hawks.

 

[Guadana]

I think you are mistaken about both of those points you are trying to make. Teams would take Bedard over all of those guys listed, even if just for the playoffs. And I think as the season goes along, the gap will only widen between Bedard and the rest of the rookies. He's the youngest player, he's the most productive player (with absolutely no help on his team) and he is improving.

Thats great that he is youngest but his issues with two way game are there. But we are talking about play opff and one play off only. Every body understand potential and the future of Bedard. Sometimes (very often) contenders needs in Fabers much more than in young skilled players with issues. They would prefer to marinate Bedard and ride Faber the horse.

 

[Luceni]

I think Bedard will win the calder. Voters are gonna rely on stats and Bedard will finish close to point-per-game this season on a really crappy team.

That being said, Brock Faber derserves to be a finalist so far this season at least. Without him, Wild would look as bad as Chicago because their vets are either injured (Spuregon) or struggling (Kap, Foligno).

Rossis point production is impressive too if you take into account his development over the summer and his health issues (Long COVID). He's been reliable on the defensive end but isn't as dangerous offensievly than Bedard in the offensive Zone. This might change if he wins back the 1C spot on the the team but at the moment Rossi isn't a true calder contender. Heck, he is not even the best rookie on his team (it's faber) but the wild might have gotten themself good young talent on prime positions (Center, Defense) to work with in future.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Bedard is probably gonna get better as the season goes on. It's his to lose as I see it.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Yeah but the Calder trophy doesn't go to the best 18 year old, it goes to the best rookie. Being 18 shouldn't matter here, as we should only be looking at who the best player is this season.

justice for the Michael Bunting calder campaign

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Actually, if you turn it into the Hart or Conn Smyth of rookies, it’s even MORE in Bedard’s favor. He’s leading his team in pretty much every stat. and producing with very limited help. He’s pretty much the team.

Faber leads his entire team in ice time by a significant margin, he leads his team in even strength goals for, Corsi for, real goal differential and expected. He’s +10 GD at even strength vs Bedard -8. He plays all situations now, though wasn’t getting any PP until the past few games.

And if you want to make a teammate argument, the Wild have a median rostered cap per game below $50MM this season. The Wild roster has been plenty crap tastic this season due to injuries to big players, and the buyouts. Faber isn’t getting much help at all either, while having the heavy expectations for his team to remain competitive and win hockey games. They aren’t as bad as Chicago, but Faber is helping the Wild find a modicum of success despite the adversity.

It is not me saying that Bedard or other rookies are bad, but Faber is doing some things that are nearly unprecedented for a rookie defender. It would be a “head in the sand” scenario to hand wave away that impact as people just being Bedard haters.

Anyway, without making this even more of a Faber tire pumping session, which he absolutely does deserve, another article with fun insight, and a quote to help with those that need a comparable.

“I was a big Charlie McAvoy fan, and those two (Fox, Makar), you strive to be like them,” Faber said. “You try to be like (Jared Spurgeon), (Jonas Brodin). All those guys. It’s so cool I get to play in the same league as them, play against them. It’s a dream come true.”
Russo and Smith: Forget the Calder — 'stud' rookie Brock Faber deserves Norris Trophy love

My personal comparison was “taller Spurgeon with Brodin’s ability to defend against speed.”

 

[57special]

This Wild fan says it is Bedard's to lose. There is no doubt that Faber has been very impressive, and is now acting as MN's #1 D with Spurgeon and Brodin both out. No situation seems to big for him defensively, and he will jump into the play effectively, though i've noticed that he is doing it less since the injuries to the other two, probably to conserve energy.
It's rare to see someone come in and great Defense right away. There is no league as fast, smart, and strong as the NHL, and there is usually a long adjustment period even for the most talented. Offense tends to come a bit easier, as you are handling the puck and setting the tempo yourself.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

“Bedard’s to lose” is such garbage. Being the best on an absolute shit team doesn’t mean much to me. Faber has been more impressive. Dude walked into a top pair shutdown role and has looked extremely impressive.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Is Voronkov top C and top pp C now?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

This Wild fan says it is Bedard's to lose. There is no doubt that Faber has been very impressive, and is now acting as MN's #1 D with Spurgeon and Brodin both out. No situation seems to big for him defensively, and he will jump into the play effectively, though i've noticed that he is doing it less since the injuries to the other two, probably to conserve energy.
It's rare to see someone come in and great Defense right away. There is no league as fast, smart, and strong as the NHL, and there is usually a long adjustment period even for the most talented. Offense tends to come a bit easier, as you are handling the puck and setting the tempo yourself.

I like faber and think he deserves recognition… it’s very tough to argue he’s not the best rookie in the league right now. At least most important.

 

[CBJx614]

Is Voronkov top C and top pp C now?

Eh, lines are still getting put through the tumbler, except his. He leads the Russian line (Marchenko-Voro-Chinny) and lately that line essentially has been the 1st PP. But if you look at TOI he's not exactly the 1C. However with Jenner out for an extended period of times basically between him and Fantilli for 1C for now

“Bedard’s to lose” is such garbage. Being the best on an absolute shit team doesn’t mean much to me. Faber has been more impressive. Dude walked into a top pair shutdown role and has looked extremely impressive.

But that's the thing. He's the best on a shit team with 0 help and he's STILL leading rookies in points.


If Faber was on Chicago without Bedard would he still be producing the same?


If Faber was playing defense with this offense in front of him he'd be getting pummeled just like everyone else.

That's not to say he wouldn't be impressive, but when you're team takes a beating every night without any help it's hard to look good and it only gets worse as the seasons drags on.

 

[COHawk]

Being the best on an absolute shit team doesn’t mean much to me.

If he had 26 points in 30 games as a rookie on a stacked team you would also hold it against him saying "it's cause he has so much help!" How can it be both ways? He should absolutely get recognition for performing well on a terrible team.