OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[DanielPlainview]

KP didn’t blow anything. It’s the play design and direction that sucks. KP is being told to look to the wide side. DJ being open on his blind side is just a failure of coaching realizing where the play is actually going to work

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

KP didn’t blow anything. It’s the play design and direction that sucks. KP is being told to look to the wide side. DJ being open on his blind side is just a failure of coaching realizing where the play is actually going to work

Why is the wide side being the 1st read "wrong"?

 

[DanielPlainview]

Why is the wide side being the 1st read "wrong"?

It’s not necessarily however the coaches need to be instructing KP on matchups and such and to glance left if there are odd numbers. He’s a young QB. We can go look at Manning or Brady’s early tape and find the same stuff

 

[MrBrightside]

KP didn’t blow anything. It’s the play design and direction that sucks. KP is being told to look to the wide side. DJ being open on his blind side is just a failure of coaching realizing where the play is actually going to work

If you really are going to argue that missing a guy who was wide open 8 yards away from him isn't on the QB, well, H2P FOREVER PITT ROCKS KENNY!!! as there's no defense of that.

It’s not necessarily however the coaches need to be instructing KP on matchups and such and to glance left if there are odd numbers

Pickett is in his 20th NFL game. If he can't ascertain mismatches at the LOS at this point he's never going to.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It’s not necessarily however the coaches need to be instructing KP on matchups and such and to glance left if there are odd numbers. He’s a young QB. We can go look at Manning or Brady’s early tape and find the same stuff

I feel like I'm missing something here. What "odd numbers" are you referencing?

This play design is fine unless someone shows me otherwise

 

[DanielPlainview]

If you really are going to argue that missing a guy who was wide open 8 yards away from him isn't on the QB, well, H2P FOREVER PITT ROCKS KENNY!!! as there's no defense of that.

I’m going to argue that reality isn’t Madden and the QB isn’t out there with an All-22 view. He had no idea what DJ was doing because he was turned away from him the entire time. A veteran QB might have recognized DJ might come open but a young QB is less likely to do so. It’s up the coaches to say hey if you see odd numbers to the left look at DJ

 

[MrBrightside]

I feel like I'm missing something here. What "odd numbers" are you referencing?

This play design is fine unless someone shows me otherwise

I am loathe to defend the worst OC in the NFL but the design was fine. The fact your #1 WR was wide open in the end zone with that little space to work is very good evidence that the design was ok.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I feel like I'm missing something here. What "odd numbers" are you referencing?

This play design is fine unless someone shows me otherwise

Odd numbers means the defense is favoring a side and presenting a possible mismatch

 

[Goalie_Bob]

KP didn’t blow anything. It’s the play design and direction that sucks. KP is being told to look to the wide side. DJ being open on his blind side is just a failure of coaching realizing where the play is actually going to work

That still doesn't excuse KP from making a horrible throw.

And that play was a staple of Ben and AB. Ben would look right to draw the coverage then throw it to AB on the slant. It's just that Ben could make an accurate throw.

It's becoming painfully obvious that Pickett doesn't have it and his redzone efficiency is the telltale sign. I said this last year and it continues to be true this year, he doesn't know how to complete a pass when the defense is compressed.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Ben w

That still doesn't excuse KP from making a horrible throw.

And that play was a staple of Ben and AB. Ben would look right to draw the coverage then throw it to AB on the slant. It's just that Ben could make an accurate throw.

It's becoming painfully obvious that Pickett doesn't have it and his redzone efficiency is the telltale sign. I said this last year and it continues to be true this year, he doesn't know how to complete a pass when the defense is compressed.

I don’t even know where to begin discussing how different the situations were with Ben during the Killer Bs era and where we are now. Hell even in Ben’s second season it’s not comparable. Ben had quality coaching around him and a bunch of veteran receivers. And they actually used Heath Miller.

 

[MrBrightside]

And the idea that he has to be coached up...good lord...what do all of the following players have in common?

Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Hurts
Tua Tagovailoa
Justin Herbert
CJ Stroud
Brock Purdy

They are all younger than Kenny Pickett.

Ben w


I don’t even know where to begin discussing how different the situations were with Ben during the Killer Bs era and where we are now. Hell even in Ben’s second season it’s not comparable. Ben had quality coaching around him and a bunch of veteran receivers. And they actually used Heath Miller.

Yeah when Randle-El and Cedric Wilson are your #2 and #3 WR it's definitely evidence that Ben was a product of the offense.

I swear.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I can’t defend KP missing that throw.

About the best I can come up with is he had a big ugly coming at him so he hurried the throw, but good NFL QBS have to make that toss.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Odd numbers means the defense is favoring a side and presenting a possible mismatch

On the right, they expect a zone coverage and intend to flood that zone to get a receiver free.
On the left, they have man to man.

100% of NFL offenses run this same concept, there is nothing wrong with this playcall and I've wanted to strangle Canada for 2 years now.

KP looking right actually opens DJ up EVEN MORE. If KP looks at the middle of the field we could even give him a pass bc there wasn't a throwing window.

This is a flat out bad throw. There's zero context or excuse for KP here. None

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I am loathe to defend the worst OC in the NFL but the design was fine. The fact your #1 WR was wide open in the end zone with that little space to work is very good evidence that the design was ok.

If the play design was to work your #1 receiver open over the middle in the end zone, wouldn't you think that your coaches would have instructed your young QB to be looking there first? Maybe Pickett completely flaked on his primary read on this play. But there's nothing on file that suggests he was properly prepared by his coaching staff.

I am not a fanboy or a blind KP defender. I just don't know as we are able to make full and proper analyses given what we know about the coaches. Until I know for sure that the coaches prompted KP to check in on DJ, the fault lies with everyone, not solely with KP.

I know he's not a 21-year-old QB. Maybe he's not your typical second-year type player. But he's still receiving whatever instruction he's receiving.

 

[MrBrightside]

If the play design was to work your #1 receiver open over the middle in the end zone, wouldn't you think that your coaches would have instructed your young QB to be looking there first? Maybe Pickett completely flaked on his primary read on this play. But there's nothing on file that suggests he was properly prepared by his coaching staff.

I am not a fanboy or a blind KP defender. I just don't know as we are able to make full and proper analyses given what we know about the coaches. Until I know for sure that the coaches prompted KP to check in on DJ, the fault lies with everyone, not solely with KP.

I know he's not a 21-year-old QB. Maybe he's not your typical second-year type player. But he's still receiving whatever instruction he's receiving.

I just don't even know what this means. Because he wasn't taught to stare down a receiver that means he wasn't prepared? Because he missed a guy standing 25 feet from him wide open by at least 3 feet that's on the play design? I hate these debates as they come across as sticking up for a terrible staff but sometimes players are the ones who screw up.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I just don't even know what this means. Because he wasn't taught to stare down a receiver that means he wasn't prepared? Because he missed a guy standing 25 feet from him wide open by at least 3 feet that's on the play design? I hate these debates as they come across as sticking up for a terrible staff but sometimes players are the ones who screw up.

LOL and I hate them because they always come across as sticking up for a player who clearly messed up but we lack context for it.

So I guess the answer to your questions is "yes."

Why is he staring down the right side? I think it matters.

 

[Pens1566]

You can't be a good NFL QB and miss throws like that. They don't get much easier ...

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If the play design was to work your #1 receiver open over the middle in the end zone, wouldn't you think that your coaches would have instructed your young QB to be looking there first? Maybe Pickett completely flaked on his primary read on this play. But there's nothing on file that suggests he was properly prepared by his coaching staff.

I am not a fanboy or a blind KP defender. I just don't know as we are able to make full and proper analyses given what we know about the coaches. Until I know for sure that the coaches prompted KP to check in on DJ, the fault lies with everyone, not solely with KP.

I know he's not a 21-year-old QB. Maybe he's not your typical second-year type player. But he's still receiving whatever instruction he's receiving.

We make a ton of assumptions and none of us will ever know. But either way you slice it, KP boned this play.

Let's discuss: It's possible that KP's 1st read was incorrect so that's still a failure on him off the bat. I mentioned previously that if KP looks ANYWHERE else but to the right, that safety staying put means DJ isn't open.

So if they wanted to scheme their #1 open in the middle of the field, this was really the only way to do it without play action/counter/RPO

This play is extremely basic that HS offenses run this frequently. It's quite easy to diagnose for a QB, especially since it's so close to the Goalline that you likely won't get any zone blitz action to confuse the QB.

Unless 1 receiver comes out and says "I ran the wrong route" this is 100% on Pickett.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Matt Canada has to go and the OL has been a big issue but the fact that Pickett misses layups like this cannot happen at this level. Baldinger's audio on the clip is excellent and man that's a walk-in TD with competent QB play, even if Johnson wasn't the first option.

It's funny how an expert sees one thing and I see the complete opposite.

Kenny drops, looks right, nothing available. He comes back to DJ on his left and immediately throws the ball. BAD THROW right??? LOL

The defender is closing hard to Pickett's right, so he leads DJ back to an open space left. DJ, did not read that he was about to BLOWED up by the LB. IF KP leads him or throws to the spot, DJ BLOWED UP. AND Pressure is there as well.

EXPERT my keister

Again, watch DJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he drifts too far right to bring the LB into play. KP threw to where DJ should have sat. MORONIC

 

[MrBrightside]

If people want to throw shade at Canada on that series, the 2nd down play to Heyward or whatever the hell that was supposed to be - there's where Canada badly failed in that sequence.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pickett objectively screwed up on that missed pass there but I also think saying he sucks because he missed a throw on a single play is pretty silly.

Maybe DJ could have caught it if he didn't slip, but Pickett threw it behind him and I think you can pretty easily argue that DJ wouldn't have slipped if Pickett would have thrown it directly to him.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

LOL and I hate them because they always come across as sticking up for a player who clearly messed up but we lack context for it.

So I guess the answer to your questions is "yes."

Why is he staring down the right side? I think it matters.

Staring? He's correctly waiting for a receiver to clear out. You have to give the routes time to develop

 

[Coastal Kev]

Pickett objectively screwed up on that missed pass there but I also think saying he sucks because he missed a throw on a single play is pretty silly.

Maybe DJ could have caught it if he didn't slip, but Pickett threw it behind him and I think you can pretty easily argue that DJ wouldn't have slipped if Pickett would have thrown it directly to him.

Dj should have stopped and KP once again had a free rusher directly in his face. I would love to Lamar, or Burrow with this OC and OL...... hilarity would ensue.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Dj should have stopped and KP once again had a free rusher directly in his face. I would love to Lamar, or Burrow with this OC and OL...... hilarity would ensue.

Two points here:

1. DJ can't stop and sit down- he correctly reads it's man coverage on his side. If he slows, then the DB trailing can chase him down/close the window

2. KP didn't have a "free rusher in his face". That is not an accurate statement. That defender was stymied and was starting to "slip free", but there was a passing window available for KP, he was late on it. If he throws it on time, that rusher hasn't slipped passed the LG by that moment

 

[Coastal Kev]

Two points here:

1. DJ can't stop and sit down- he correctly reads it's man coverage on his side. If he slows, then the DB trailing can chase him down/close the window

2. KP didn't have a "free rusher in his face". That is not an accurate statement. That defender was stymied and was starting to "slip free", but there was a passing window available for KP, he was late on it. If he throws it on time, that rusher hasn't slipped passed the LG by that moment

IF KP leads him, blowed up.

Stop the video at the 55-56 second mark and tell if that defender is squared up directly in KP's face. It's amazing he got the pass through.