OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Buddy Bizarre]

Well since his last 3 playoff wins were won on defense and he got a combined 3 tds from his qb maybe that’s what he is trying to do with KP

Saints High On Kenny Pickett, Matt Corral?

It remains to be seen if the Saints will end up selecting a quarterback during the first round of tomorrow's …

www.profootballrumors.com

Steelers QB Kenny Pickett hasn't given the Saints much cause for draft-day regret

It’s early, but Kenny Pickett hasn’t given the Saints much cause for draft-day regret. The Steelers rookie is going into this matchup as the NFL’s most turnover-prone QB:

saintswire.usatoday.com

I take from your response that you feel that the coach should be attempting to win playoff games
If so, then Tomlin is being completely short-sighted in his approach. If you want to win in the playoffs, you cannot win in the playoffs with current state KP and this conservative philosophy.

It's linear logic: if you want to win in the playoffs, then KP has to develop.

This scheme and philosophy is not permitting KP to develop. Ergo, this coach will not win in the playoffs, which is what you stated the goal is for any coach.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I take from your response that you feel that the coach should be attempting to win playoff games
If so, then Tomlin is being completely short-sighted in his approach. If you want to win in the playoffs, you cannot win in the playoffs with current state KP and this conservative philosophy.

It's linear logic: if you want to win in the playoffs, then KP has to develop.

This scheme and philosophy is not permitting KP to develop. Ergo, this coach will not win in the playoffs, which is what you stated the goal is for any coach.

If you’re QB isn’t hitting lay ups what are you supposed to do. An average QB against Tennessee has 300 yards and 3 tds. They are giving him every snap there is only so much they can with a severely limited player

 

[SomeDude]

Not true the Saints considered him he was the consensus 1 QB in his class. His comp was bridgewater 1st carr early 2nd. Najee was also the consensus top rb and went around the same spot brandon jacobs went his nfl comp.

Not sure that means anything since theres s report the bills considered mason if they didn’t draft Allen in his draft year

Yes, he and Najee were considered the top of their positions both years but I’m pretty sure it was widely reported most teams still didn’t have a 1st round grade on either of them. It was just considered a weak class for QB and RB those years.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If you’re QB isn’t hitting lay ups what are you supposed to do. An average QB against Tennessee has 300 yards and 3 tds. They are giving him every snap there is only so much they can with a severely limited player

I'm not discounting KP hasn't been clean, but to act like he's the sole reason for this offensive ineptness is unfair.

KP's stat line looks better if Pickens doesn't miss his own layup. It also looks better if players didn't drop passes at the goalline (thankfully negated by penalty).

The fact this offense looks exactly the same over the past 5 years through multiple QB's, RB's, receivers, Oline, it's glaringly obvious this is coached

 

[Peat]

Interesting article in The Athletic where DeFabo is going over what the Steelers offence did differently vs the Titans

Things of note highlighted

- Broderick Jones (no shit)

- Giving up on 12 formation and center - They were 1.7 worse carrying from 12 than they were 11 - so 26 carries carries came from 11 and only 1 from 12. They'd been 2.4 yards better from shotgun than center; so called 70% of runs from shotgun, rather than the 46% they'd been doing, or 21 runs when they'd had 22 in the last 3 games combined. Result? Harris (2.7 attempts a game prior) and Warren (2) got 8 and 5 runs against 6 man boxes each.

- More Warren and more Warren on 1st down

- Going from 62% zone blocking to 50-50 between zone and gap

- Play action went from 27% to 36% (3rd lowest in the league to 10th that week) on running downs, and they threw 33% of the time from center, a season high

- Screen routes jumped from 9.9% to 35%

- Exploiting the double coverage placed on Pickens


I think the really interesting stuff there to me is how they're trying to give opposition more options as to what's going to happen and insisting on less "we're the big bad Steelers, you know what we're doing and you can't stop it". Calling runs from pass formations, using RPO to get passes off against run formations. That feels like it should have been part of the plan from day one, but better later than never.

Will be interesting to see if those trends continue and where the offence can go if they do.

If you’re QB isn’t hitting lay ups what are you supposed to do. An average QB against Tennessee has 300 yards and 3 tds. They are giving him every snap there is only so much they can with a severely limited player

Don't let him get smacked in the ribs so he's not playing through injury.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yes, he and Najee were considered the top of their positions both years but I’m pretty sure it was widely reported most teams still didn’t have a 1st round grade on either of them. It was just considered a weak class for QB and RB those years.

I wouldn’t say weak rb class since 2 others went within the next 7 picks and 1 literally the next pick.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'm not discounting KP hasn't been clean, but to act like he's the sole reason for this offensive ineptness is unfair.

KP's stat line looks better if Pickens doesn't miss his own layup. It also looks better if players didn't drop passes at the goalline (thankfully negated by penalty).

The fact this offense looks exactly the same over the past 5 years through multiple QB's, RB's, receivers, Oline, it's glaringly obvious this is coached

If GP come down with his lay up he KP then yes finally KP has his 2nd game of 2 throwing tds but still doesn’t crack 200 yards. This a QB League

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Interesting article in The Athletic where DeFabo is going over what the Steelers offence did differently vs the Titans

Things of note highlighted

- Broderick Jones (no shit)

- Giving up on 12 formation and center - They were 1.7 worse carrying from 12 than they were 11 - so 26 carries carries came from 11 and only 1 from 12. They'd been 2.4 yards better from shotgun than center; so called 70% of runs from shotgun, rather than the 46% they'd been doing, or 21 runs when they'd had 22 in the last 3 games combined. Result? Harris (2.7 attempts a game prior) and Warren (2) got 8 and 5 runs against 6 man boxes each.

- More Warren and more Warren on 1st down

- Going from 62% zone blocking to 50-50 between zone and gap

- Play action went from 27% to 36% (3rd lowest in the league to 10th that week) on running downs, and they threw 33% of the time from center, a season high

- Screen routes jumped from 9.9% to 35%

- Exploiting the double coverage placed on Pickens


I think the really interesting stuff there to me is how they're trying to give opposition more options as to what's going to happen and insisting on less "we're the big bad Steelers, you know what we're doing and you can't stop it". Calling runs from pass formations, using RPO to get passes off against run formations. That feels like it should have been part of the plan from day one, but better later than never.

Will be interesting to see if those trends continue and where the offence can go if they do.

That was the thing I noticed right away: Steelers FINALLY went against tendency

They ran out of the shotgun and passed under center. Huge curveball that only took them 1.5 seasons to trip up the opposition

 

[Rossi Rat]

Say what you will about Madden, but plenty of notable talking heads and football analysts with more expertise have been holding the same take as Mark re: Pickett lately. Dan Patrick is the most recent example.

Also, former Steelers PR guy Ryan Scarpino has had plenty of recent tweets with hard statistics that don’t paint a very good picture for Kenny and his fanboys.

And no - I’m not just passionate about this because he’s a Pitt guy (although that’s part of it). The main part is that we are absolutely going to continue to suffer with this guy at QB because the Steelers will want to keep winning the way they do even though it’s unsustainable and is a 9-10 win/one and done in the playoff ceiling, and it’s likely going to take a lot to bench him because they want to be right with him. And that’s frustrating.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How would benching Pickett for Trubisky or Rudolph somehow take them away from that 9-10 win/one and done in the playoff ceiling? I've been saying this for months: even if Pickett isn't the guy, you'd be idiots to move on from him before you fix the rest of the issues with the offense. It's a 2 part thing:

1. You don't know if Pickett truly is "the guy" because of the current situation with the offense. I've said this numerous times, but Pickett is a systems QB and has always projected to be a systems QB. His upside when drafted was an Alex Smith type of QB and I don't think that has changed with his time in the NFL. He's not good enough to be the focal point of the offense and he's on a team where they need him to be the focal point of the offense.

2. If Pickett isn't the guy, you don't want to throw a new rookie QB in the same mess that they threw Pickett in. It is pretty unlikely you'll be able to pull off a QB with where the Steelers will be drafting that can mask the issues with the rest of the team like Ben did. If you can get a veteran QB that is better and can get something worthwhile back in a trade for Pickett, go ahead and do that, but what veteran QB can this team actually pull off that would make a difference? A marginal upgrade on Pickett isn't going to make a difference.

I know others have said this as well, but I think the Steelers just really botched the post-Ben years and now they have to lay in the mess they made. They should have built up the OL and brought in a veteran QB like Carr from the beginning. But now that they're here, you can't go back and do what they should have done from the beginning. They still need to fix the OL, playcalling and run game.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

What if they’ve already found out he isn’t the guy. Only 2 of the Qbs in his class are still starting outside of him. They have given him a longer lease than Mason because his a local 1st round pick.

He’s giving him a longer leash because he’s 10-4 in his last 14 starts and finds ways to win at the end.

Tomlin just wants that 9 each season so people won’t notice he’s on a historical run for playoff ineptitude.

He has no long term plan, just season to season and being all about his precious 9.

 

[Josey Wales]

He’s giving him a longer leash because he’s 10-4 in his last 14 starts and finds ways to win at the end.

Tomlin just wants that 9 each season so people won’t notice he’s on a historical run for playoff ineptitude.

He has no long term plan, just season to season and being all about his precious 9.

Wasting you time with That poster

 

[Peat]

How would benching Pickett for Trubisky or Rudolph somehow take them away from that 9-10 win/one and done in the playoff ceiling? I've been saying this for months: even if Pickett isn't the guy, you'd be idiots to move on from him before you fix the rest of the issues with the offense. It's a 2 part thing:

Tbf, number of picks Trubisky throws seems a fairly good bet to take them away from that 9-10 win ceiling. Be a real tank job going on

Speaking of picks, Pickett's last 4 games include none and that's not even his longest non-pick streak. Rudolph threw 2 in his last 4 games starting. Pickett only has 1 multi-pick game after his first 5 games. That's a big part of why Tomlin is sticking with Pickett. Pickett can execute a game plan that involves winning the turnover battle big. Rudolph, not so much.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I have no desire to bench Pickett. But we should be looking for a QB upgrade this off-season. If we don't find one at the right price - and frankly, I don't expect us to - then move forward with Kenny for another year.

But writing a bottom 10 starting QB's name in pen vs. pencil seems pretty presumptuous.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Wasting you time with That poster

I don’t mind BD, we just mess around but there are no hard feelings on my end.

None of the stuff we banter about means anything in the grand scheme of shit.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[xlm34]

I have no desire to bench Pickett. But we should be looking for a QB upgrade this off-season. If we don't find one at the right price - and frankly, I don't expect us to - then move forward with Kenny for another year.

But writing a bottom 10 starting QB's name in pen vs. pencil seems pretty presumptuous.

This is kind of where I’m at. I don’t think they should be actively be looking to replace him, but if a QB upgrade magically falls from the sky into their lap they’d be dumb not to consider it. But drafting Bo Nix or whoever the 5th best QB in the draft ends up being would dumb.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I have no desire to bench Pickett. But we should be looking for a QB upgrade this off-season. If we don't find one at the right price - and frankly, I don't expect us to - then move forward with Kenny for another year.

But writing a bottom 10 starting QB's name in pen vs. pencil seems pretty presumptuous.

I think this is a totally reasonable approach. If you can get a veteran upgrade and be able to trade Pickett for a 2nd or 3rd, I'd be completely fine to do that. I'm just skeptical that they'd be able to do that.

They just absolutely shouldn't be drafting another QB anytime soon.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Weird

LB Martinez joins Panthers after Pokémon fallout

Linebacker Blake Martinez, who announced his unretirement earlier this year amid a Pokémon card scandal, was signed to the Panthers' practice squad Tuesday.

www.espn.com

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think this is a totally reasonable approach. If you can get a veteran upgrade and be able to trade Pickett for a 2nd or 3rd, I'd be completely fine to do that. I'm just skeptical that they'd be able to do that.

They just absolutely shouldn't be drafting another QB anytime soon.

Ya'll are high if you believe this organization will bring in or draft another QB of significance.
This team doesn't even fire poorly performing staff...they simply let their contracts expire. Think they'll send this type of a message to their franchise QB?

KP is gonna be here for the next couple of years with Mitch and/or Rudolph as the backup. I'll put any avatar bet on that. Even if KP sinks...they won't do anything.

The only caveat to this is if KP gets a major injury or he becomes frequently unavailable due to injuries. It won't be due to his performance

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ya'll are high if you believe this organization will bring in or draft another QB of significance.
This team doesn't even fire poorly performing staff...they simply let their contracts expire. Think they'll send this type of a message to their franchise QB?

KP is gonna be here for the next couple of years with Mitch and/or Rudolph as the backup. I'll put any avatar bet on that. Even if KP sinks...they won't do anything.

The only caveat to this is if KP gets a major injury or he becomes frequently unavailable due to injuries. It won't be due to his performance

I mean yeah you're right, I'm just saying what they should do. What they should do is much different than what they'll actually do.

In reality, Pickett is assuredly playing through his rookie contract here and they'll only move on from him if he wants too much money after his rookie contract.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I mean yeah you're right, I'm just saying what they should do. What they should do is much different than what they'll actually do.

In reality, Pickett is assuredly playing through his rookie contract here and they'll only move on from him if he wants too much money after his rookie contract.

I'm neutral on bringing in someone from the outside who's notable AT THIS MOMENT. I want to see how KP does the rest of the year. If he's passable, I'd rather use the money on the Oline.

If they fix the Oline, they can really evaluate KP (and for that matter Harris and Warren). Until that happens, I feel like we're playing guessing games/alternate realities.

 

[ChaosAgent]

This is kind of where I’m at. I don’t think they should be actively be looking to replace him, but if a QB upgrade magically falls from the sky into their lap they’d be dumb not to consider it. But drafting Bo Nix or whoever the 5th best QB in the draft ends up being would dumb.

Kyler Murray may be available, but who knows. After the Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson disasters I would be reticent in trading big assets for any QB. Almost every great QB in the league is still with the team that drafted them.

 

[Josey Wales]

Reason 1 Billion why Pro Football f***us is a Joke PFF's Brad Spielberger on 937: “I think Tomlin’s perception in Pittsburgh is bizarre. I think they should be building statues every single week for the fact that they’re able to win some of these football games. Still have not had 400 yards in the Matt Canada era and find a way to win all of these games.

 

[Peat]

Re Moving on from Pickett next off-season

a) Emotionally it'd bum me out if we moved forwards without seeing him in a good offence, but I can't argue about the practicality of upgrading if it's really there

b) More practically, I think it'd be real hard to improve on him given the contract he's on. Say Kirk Cousins doesn't re-up with the Vikings and is interested - is he better than Pickett? Almost definitely. Is he 21m better? That one is a lot tougher.

Kyler Murray may be available, but who knows. After the Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson disasters I would be reticent in trading big assets for any QB. Almost every great QB in the league is still with the team that drafted them.

I can't find the article but The Athletic ran an article recently that came to the conclusion that barring truly great and incredible QBs, 80% of QB acquisitions bust.