OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Peat]

I got a bit bored and looked at the 1-4 and 5-8 splits for Pickett.

Stats says that most of the offence is working better in the latter. Pickett is throwing for further, throwing more 1st Downs, throwing more accurately, less bad throws - and the OL is letting up less pressures, hits, and the rest of it. It's a little distorted by the fact they were incredibly outmatched vs 49ers, with Pickett getting pressured on nearly half of his pass attempts.

About the only thing that's got worse is thrown TDs and drops.

We'll see how Pickett does in the next game - Titans was his most conservative game of the year in terms of target depth, which fits for an injured guy, and his ribs are probably going to hurt for a few more games do - but I wouldn't be surprised if we see another small uptick over the rest of the season.

 

[Son Goku]

The Steelers BIG 3 PM announcement was that we are using block numbers against Green Bay

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I have no desire to bench Pickett. But we should be looking for a QB upgrade this off-season. If we don't find one at the right price - and frankly, I don't expect us to - then move forward with Kenny for another year.

But writing a bottom 10 starting QB's name in pen vs. pencil seems pretty presumptuous.

This exactly. I am critical of Pickett but I am in no way advocating for him to be benched this season. He is their best QB.

I just think long term, they need to look to pick another QB. This upcoming draft has a host of good QBs and their will be some pretty good players in the 2nd and 3rd round. Or even look to pick a guy in the later rounds. Mitch sucks, I don't understand why they signed him to an extension. I'd rather have some dude drafted in the 6th/7th round than him.

Not a huge fan of Rudolph either.

Kyler Murray may be available, but who knows. After the Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson disasters I would be reticent in trading big assets for any QB. Almost every great QB in the league is still with the team that drafted them.

Kyler Murray sucks. I'd rather roll with KP than him. Especially since he is being paid like a franchise QB and can't find the field either through injury or his performance. Zero chance I would trade for him. I think he ends up a Post June 1st cut for the Cards if they end up with Maye or Williams. Funny enough, when i look at his stats they are still far better than KP's, So maybe I shouldn't be so harsh about him......

Justin Fields would be the guy that I would kick the can on. He has good size, 6'-3", 225lbs. HThe issue is that whoever has him on their roster will need to decide on his 5th year option. Which at this point would be 22.3mil.

If they can trade a mid round pick for Fields then they should do it. But I think Atlanta or Las Vegas will trade something like 2024 3rd + 2025 2nd for him.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Tomlin: Pickens' frustrations 'pebble in my shoe'

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin dismissed the idea of any trouble brewing with receiver George Pickens on Tuesday.

www.espn.com

 

[bigdaddyk88]

He’s giving him a longer leash because he’s 10-4 in his last 14 starts and finds ways to win at the end.

Tomlin just wants that 9 each season so people won’t notice he’s on a historical run for playoff ineptitude.

He has no long term plan, just season to season and being all about his precious 9.

Mason was 5-3 as a starter but yes KP needs to play every game if healthy. They need to know without a doubt what he is and isn’t

 

[ChaosAgent]

Justin Fields would be the guy that I would kick the can on. He has good size, 6'-3", 225lbs. HThe issue is that whoever has him on their roster will need to decide on his 5th year option. Which at this point would be 22.3mil.

If they can trade a mid round pick for Fields then they should do it. But I think Atlanta or Las Vegas will trade something like 2024 3rd + 2025 2nd for him.

I'm a pretty emphatic "no" on Justin Fields, except in Fantasy Football. He struggles to process the game, which dated back to his time in college. The Bears have a better record with backups than they have with Fields.

I do think we upgrade on Trubisky with a guy who can lead a bit more emotionally if Kenny is hurt or bombs. A Minshew or a Heinecke. Maybe Tyrod Taylor. I would want to see if a Minshew could do better in our current situation than Kenny. That would give me a lot of additional info about Kenny's potential.

Plus I'm starting to come around in investing zero incremental draft picks in the QB position. We need help at OL and DB. We could draft 3 of each and it would still be a good use of resources.

 

[MrBrightside]

b) More practically, I think it'd be real hard to improve on him given the contract he's on. Say Kirk Cousins doesn't re-up with the Vikings and is interested - is he better than Pickett? Almost definitely. Is he 21m better? That one is a lot tougher.

Cousins is absolutely $21M a year better than Pickett is. Cousins is a top 10 QB in the NFL. The only hesitation at all I would have with that is that he's 35 coming off a torn Achilles, but this isn't even close otherwise.

 

[Peat]

Cousins is absolutely $21M a year better than Pickett is. Cousins is a top 10 QB in the NFL. The only hesitation at all I would have with that is that he's 35 coming off a torn Achilles, but this isn't even close otherwise.

Eh. That seems generous. The Athletic's QB Tiers had Cousins as 13th.

More pertinently, their voters were split equally over whether he was a Tier 2 or Tier 3 QB; they just put him in Tier 2 but given he's only been there 2 times in 8 years, and him being there feels very linked to Jefferson, he's a very low end Tier 2.

Or in other words, a QB who is absolutely not winning you crap as the spearpoint of the offence and would need to be surrounded by plenty of talent.

Which is not happening with him at 35m.

Cousins is a good player but his ceiling at that price tag is respectable regular season team who might win a playoff game.

Pickett might never be as good but the team might carry him to as good a record when he's 21m less - as they are currently doing, 5-3 vs 4-4 for Cousins this year - and you've got a chance of striking it big if he takes a big step while still on that rookie contract.

So... yeah, not feeling it.

But then I think every QB after the top 5-6 or so is vastly overpaid and would happily never give a guy a second contract unless he was one of them.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yeah, that's what functional QB's cost. Cousins is the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL. You aren't winning going cheap at this position unless you have a guy on his rookie deal.

Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Ranking the top NFL Quarterback contracts and salaries in the NFL

overthecap.com

I'm not rehashing the Pickett debate yet again, but you can win RIGHT NOW with Kirk Cousins and an otherwise functional team, and $35M a year is what mid-tier NFL starting QB's make.

Name a good team with a cheap QB that's not on a rookie deal. There literally is not one.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, that's what functional QB's cost. Cousins is the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL. You aren't winning going cheap at this position unless you have a guy on his rookie deal.

Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Ranking the top NFL Quarterback contracts and salaries in the NFL

overthecap.com

I'm not rehashing the Pickett debate yet again, but you can win RIGHT NOW with Kirk Cousins and an otherwise functional team, and $35M a year is what mid-tier NFL starting QB's make.

Name a good team with a cheap QB that's not on a rookie deal. There literally is not one.

Disagreed with the bolded. It happens so very rarely. The Rams is about the only recent case of it happening and Stafford is a step up above Cousins *and* they paid out the wazoo with picks to make it happen.

None of the rest of it really refutes what I'm saying. I'm not saying there's good cheap QBs outside of rookie deals. I'm not saying you can get a functional QB cheaper than Cousins if they're not a rookie deal.

I am saying that given functional QBs are overpaid given what they bring to the table in terms of being a SB contender, which means winning a SB comes down to having an elite guy, a rookie guy, or getting silly lucky. Functional QBs are for teams that want to have lots of winning seasons with decent football and aren't that bothered if they don't go far in the playoffs. I don't want that for the Steelers.

Plus I'm starting to come around in investing zero incremental draft picks in the QB position. We need help at OL and DB. We could draft 3 of each and it would still be a good use of resources.

Tbf, they have 8 picks with the spare being in the 4th. So they can do exactly that and take a QB.

Given that I heavily value rookie QBs, I think them taking a QB in the 3rd or 4th is a legit idea providing they're willing to cut Trubisky so this guy gets meaningful reps and exposure rather than being 3QB, which they probably won't as they seemingly really like Trubisky. Late round flyer on a QB to replace Rudolph also makes sense. I mean, I'd happily see the team take a QB every couple of years "just in case".

But, as you pretty much say, they could also make all of those 1st to 5th round picks without taking a QB and have a very short road to a lot of meaningful snaps for all of them.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Jimmy G got 3/75 thats the floor for Kirk still better than 40 million jones got from the giants

I would draft a QB or give up a 4th for Fields lance got a 4th

 

[Empoleon8771]

As someone who really likes Cousins, I don't think the upgrade from Pickett to Cousins is worth the enormous amount of extra money you'd have to pay Cousins. I mostly mean that as in "I don't like paying not top-10 QBs a ton of money", though. From me looking at the 15 highest paid QBs in the NFL, only like half of them seem worth it. And even the ones that are "worth it" are making $50 million a year.

I believe Pickett is the 3rd lowest paid starter in the NFL right now, right behind Levis and Purdy. I would absolutely sooner sign Cousins for $35 million a year than pay Pickett $25 million a year (around what Garapolo, Smith and Tannehill make), but the $30 million a year difference is really big. I think Pickett being so cheap makes the question of replacing him pointless until at least after his rookie deal is done.

I am saying that given functional QBs are overpaid given what they bring to the table in terms of being a SB contender, which means winning a SB comes down to having an elite guy, a rookie guy, or getting silly lucky. Functional QBs are for teams that want to have lots of winning seasons with decent football and aren't that bothered if they don't go far in the playoffs. I don't want that for the Steelers.

Agree with this 100%.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jimmy G got 3/75 thats the floor for Kirk still better than 40 million jones got from the giants

I would draft a QB or give up a 4th for Fields lance got a 4th

Fields sucks, I'd sooner just play Pickett over trading for him.

 

[MrBrightside]

Disagreed with the bolded. It happens so very rarely. The Rams is about the only recent case of it happening and Stafford is a step up above Cousins *and* they paid out the wazoo with picks to make it happen.

None of the rest of it really refutes what I'm saying. I'm not saying there's good cheap QBs outside of rookie deals. I'm not saying you can get a functional QB cheaper than Cousins if they're not a rookie deal.

I am saying that given functional QBs are overpaid given what they bring to the table in terms of being a SB contender, which means winning a SB comes down to having an elite guy, a rookie guy, or getting silly lucky. Functional QBs are for teams that want to have lots of winning seasons with decent football and aren't that bothered if they don't go far in the playoffs. I don't want that for the Steelers.



Tbf, they have 8 picks with the spare being in the 4th. So they can do exactly that and take a QB.

Given that I heavily value rookie QBs, I think them taking a QB in the 3rd or 4th is a legit idea providing they're willing to cut Trubisky so this guy gets meaningful reps and exposure rather than being 3QB, which they probably won't as they seemingly really like Trubisky. Late round flyer on a QB to replace Rudolph also makes sense. I mean, I'd happily see the team take a QB every couple of years "just in case".

But, as you pretty much say, they could also make all of those 1st to 5th round picks without taking a QB and have a very short road to a lot of meaningful snaps for all of them.

I guess I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting they do other than just close their eyes and hope and pray that Pickett becomes good enough to start on a contending team. I mean, you CAN win at a high level with solid but unspectacular starters - Goff, Jimmy G, Cousins, and I'd argue even Dak and later-stage Stafford would all fall into that category. You CANNOT win at a high level with the bottom tier of QB's, and while we'd all love to fall into Burrow or Mahomes or Allen, the reality is that this team is unlikely to ever be bad enough to get an elite guy in the draft. You're thus left with either trying to acquire a functional QB or just wishing and hoping that Pickett may become that, and I'd guess the main difference here is that you and some others think he has a good chance of becoming that. I don't, and while I'm all for letting this year play out, if he doesn't take a step forward and we run this back a 3rd straight year it's really unlikely to improve much.

 

[xlm34]

In a nutshell I’d take a healthy Cousins over Pickett right now pretty easily. But at the end of the day you’re paying 30+ million for a QB that’s probably not gonna win you a Super Bowl and then have to start all over in two years when Cousins is done.

I think I’d rather just hope Pickett takes a magical leap with a new OC in year 3.

 

[Peat]

Fields sucks, I'd sooner just play Pickett over trading for him.

Even if he doesn't, what are you going to do about him contractually? Give him his 5th year option sight unseen and hope it works out? Let it ride and plan to tag him if necessary, creating a Daniel Jones situation where you might be giving 40m to a functional at best QB because of the human element? Just doesn't fill me with joy.

I guess for a 4th I might do it because hell, 4th is cheap, but I bet some team will offer more and that sounds cuckoo.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yeah, that's what functional QB's cost. Cousins is the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL. You aren't winning going cheap at this position unless you have a guy on his rookie deal.

Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Ranking the top NFL Quarterback contracts and salaries in the NFL

overthecap.com

I'm not rehashing the Pickett debate yet again, but you can win RIGHT NOW with Kirk Cousins and an otherwise functional team, and $35M a year is what mid-tier NFL starting QB's make.

Name a good team with a cheap QB that's not on a rookie deal. There literally is not one.

Win what exactly?

Because with Tomlin as coach and this game plan you can win the 'I never had a losing season'
championship and little else.

Apparently, you can win that championship with KP as well.

 

[MrBrightside]

Win what exactly?

Because with Tomlin as coach and this game plan you can win the 'I never had a losing season'
championship and little else.

Apparently, you can win that championship with KP as well.

Something I'm not interested in winning.

The funny thing is that people seem to think this is a Pickett on one side versus Canada/Tomlin on the other and that you either think it's Pickett who sucks or that coaching is holding him back. The reality is that we are WAAAAAY more likely to have Canada back next year - or have a clone of him, namely an unqualified schmo that Tomlin can micromanage - than we are to have any real change.

 

[Peat]

I guess I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting they do other than just close their eyes and hope and pray that Pickett becomes good enough to start on a contending team. I mean, you CAN win at a high level with solid but unspectacular starters - Goff, Jimmy G, Cousins, and I'd argue even Dak and later-stage Stafford would all fall into that category. You CANNOT win at a high level with the bottom tier of QB's, and while we'd all love to fall into Burrow or Mahomes or Allen, the reality is that this team is unlikely to ever be bad enough to get an elite guy in the draft. You're thus left with either trying to acquire a functional QB or just wishing and hoping that Pickett may become that, and I'd guess the main difference here is that you and some others think he has a good chance of becoming that. I don't, and while I'm all for letting this year play out, if he doesn't take a step forward and we run this back a 3rd straight year it's really unlikely to improve much.

First off, I want them to recognise the way rookie contracts are structured and the difference between elite QB play vs good play and elite QB salary vs good QB salary leaves good QBs in a brutal hole. Maybe agree to disagree there.

As for this particular situation -

I'm not sure I have a huge disagreement with people who are kinda done with Pickett. I'm not sure I think he has a good chance of becoming functional. I think he has an adequate physical floor and like how he plays late, which matters a lot to me, but I'm not sure he sees the play quick enough which is my number one desired QB trait - and also feeds into accuracy. I'm also aware of the numbers suggesting he was never great odds to make it and I doubt his comparables have got any better. I think that, statistically, it would probably be quite remarkable if he was to make it from here.

But I think he has put in a remarkably dysfunctional environment. That I am sure of. And while that leaves me unsure of who Pickett really is, I am quite sure that feeding more QBs in will return similar answers.

So I want the Steelers to fix that environment. New OC. Bring in more OL. Even consider looking for a new, hopefully more consistent guy in the WR/TE room. That both offers the best chance of getting Pickett to whatever his ceiling may be, and creates a good shot for whoever his replacement is if he's not that guy.

And I don't really want them to make a move for a new starting QB until they've fixed it - not because I believe in Pickett, but because I don't think many guys would have done much better and therefore why believe the next one will?

 

[ChaosAgent]

Fields sucks, I'd sooner just play Pickett over trading for him.

I would have much rather traded for Lance, who is still a raw/unknown commodity. Fields is getting pretty known. And not in a good way.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Even if he doesn't, what are you going to do about him contractually? Give him his 5th year option sight unseen and hope it works out? Let it ride and plan to tag him if necessary, creating a Daniel Jones situation where you might be giving 40m to a functional at best QB because of the human element? Just doesn't fill me with joy.

I guess for a 4th I might do it because hell, 4th is cheap, but I bet some team will offer more and that sounds cuckoo.

No at worst he gets a love extension 2/13. The packers didn’t want to use the 5th option so they gave him 13 million to buyout him until 2025. Tomlin loved Fields he wants a mobile option

Muth caught 60 plus passes the last 2 seasons what more can ask for a te.

 

[JTG]

Kenny can play ball. It's the consistency. I think that comes. If we had 4th quarter Kenny all of the time, he's a top 10 QB.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Mike Tomlin: Rookie Broderick Jones expected to make another start at right tackle for Steelers

First-round draft pick Broderick Jones did enough in his starting debut at right tackle for the Pittsburgh Steelers that he has earned another. Coach Mike Tomlin said Tuesday at his weekly press conference that Jones is expected to start ahead of veteran Chuks Okorafor at right tackle Sunday...

triblive.com

Not exactly thrilled he’s at RT, but he’s getting snaps so whatever.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Our running game was the best it has looked with Jones at RT. Chuks is a terrible run blocker but is a great guy to have as a swing tackle. I like Jones playing there, assuming the coaches are correct and Moore can't play RT.