OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Blamed Canada

[bigdaddyk88]

Agreeing for the most part.



I don't think they even ponder QB, to be honest. This organization giving up on Kenny after this season would be the most un-Steeler thing I have ever seen.

If they were willing to bench him why wouldn’t they. Again Khan didn’t draft him. Andy was in Philly when they traded up for Weintz and drafted Hurts.
In a perfect world MT comes out and looks decent the next 4 weeks you flip him for picks you trade Chucks for a 3rd then you draft competition for Kp at the very least

 

[Peat]

Eh, KP was billed the most "NFL-ready" QB due to his age/college experience. He was supposedly at/near his ceiling when he was drafted. So I'm not sure if sitting would have benefitted THAT much. Remember he didn't start in Week 1, he sat for a few weeks so it's not like he was just tossed into the fire.

In short, I don't think KP's performance as we see it would be altered by sitting 1 year. It appears his flaws are the same as in college. The difference is they're magnified in the NFL bc you get figured out super quick. Note that I don't think this offense does him any favors either though.

I don't think they planned for him to be playing in game 4/5 though. It felt like the plan was to sit him for a lot longer but they got rattled by how the team was doing with Trubisky. So the team did seem to think he'd benefit.

I guess the logic, the hope is that giving him time to work on his basics and understanding of the NFL game without having to prepare for a team every work would allow him to progress faster there. Would that have helped? It seems logical to think it would but given how he's regressed, does it stop the regression?

If they were willing to bench him why wouldn’t they. Again Khan didn’t draft him. Andy was in Philly when they traded up for Weintz and drafted Hurts.
In a perfect world MT comes out and looks decent the next 4 weeks you flip him for picks you trade Chucks for a 3rd then you draft competition for Kp at the very least

2/3rds of the drafting committee are Tomlin and Rooney. They drafted him, they'll have the majority say on replacing him.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don't think they planned for him to be playing in game 4/5 though. It felt like the plan was to sit him for a lot longer but they got rattled by how the team was doing with Trubisky. So the team did seem to think he'd benefit.

I guess the logic, the hope is that giving him time to work on his basics and understanding of the NFL game without having to prepare for a team every work would allow him to progress faster there. Would that have helped? It seems logical to think it would but given how he's regressed, does it stop the regression?



2/3rds of the drafting committee are Tomlin and Rooney. They drafted him, they'll have the majority say on replacing him.

maybe tomlin soured in him maybe when no decent oc candidate wants to put their career in KP hands Art will move on hoping anyway he can be a backup but they need real competition

 

[T1K]

Eh, KP was billed the most "NFL-ready" QB due to his age/college experience. He was supposedly at/near his ceiling when he was drafted. So I'm not sure if sitting would have benefitted THAT much. Remember he didn't start in Week 1, he sat for a few weeks so it's not like he was just tossed into the fire.

In short, I don't think KP's performance as we see it would be altered by sitting 1 year. It appears his flaws are the same as in college. The difference is they're magnified in the NFL bc you get figured out super quick. Note that I don't think this offense does him any favors either though.

To be fair, KP was the most NFL ready QB from that class (excluding the outlier, “Mr. Irrelevant”). Pretty much all of the other QBs we were targeting are on the fast track of being out of the league.

 

[Peat]

maybe tomlin soured in him maybe when no decent oc candidate wants to put their career in KP hands Art will move on hoping anyway he can be a backup but they need real competition

We will see.

But I doubt Tomlin or Rooney want to answer the question of "why have you stopped believing in the 1st round pick you made in only two years" as there's no answer there that doesn't major in "I screwed up big".

And the easiest way to avoid answering that question is to keep believing in him.

Also, no, I don't see what adding competition does. I don't see the need. If a guy like Trubisky isn't adequate competition, then adequate competition isn't out there as there aren't better QBs willing to do competition in FA and there aren't better QBs than him outside the draft's top 10. Either spend what it takes to replace him or throw the resources at strengthening the team and giving whoever starts the best possible chance. Don't pay for an insurance policy that doesn't actually insure you and makes it harder to get to where the team needs to be.



edit: I also think I read enough in depth draft profiles that said "NFL ready" without reference to his draft that we don't need to frame it in terms of vs the rest of the class. I believe Pickett was being perceived as NFL ready for a QB.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

It’s actually quite easy to explain the entire class has been benched our flat out cut outside of Purdy and Howell and howell might not start next year that’s up to the new coach in washington., the class before KP outside of Lawerence will not see their 4th year with the team that drafted them

 

[T1K]

Howell has been a much better fantasy QB than real life QB, mostly because of the scheme they’re running in Washington. That said, I’d easily take him over Pickett.

 

[JTG]

If they were willing to bench him why wouldn’t they. Again Khan didn’t draft him. Andy was in Philly when they traded up for Weintz and drafted Hurts.
In a perfect world MT comes out and looks decent the next 4 weeks you flip him for picks you trade Chucks for a 3rd then you draft competition for Kp at the very least

Because 4 years passed before they drafted Hurts. They will do the same here. I fully expect them to take another QB next year or definitely the year after.

Value may be there to take on this year though, so maybe they don't wait. It all depends on how the board falls. I wouldn't rule it out, but I don't think they are going into the 1st round thinking they are going to take a QB this year.

 

[MrBrightside]

This pod is kind of hit or miss, but the most recent discussion about the Steelers by Ledyard and Spielberger is quite good. Hits on a lot of the same criticisms we (well all of us by BigDaddyTomlinFan) have been levying at Tomlin and the coaching staff.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Because 4 years passed before they drafted Hurts. They will do the same here.

Ehhhhhh...Wentz had massive success early and was a #2OA pick. Just don't think the guy drafted #20 gets the same amount of rope. Then again, it's the Stillerz.

The new OC should have a lot to do with this decision, IMO.

 

[JTG]

I'm curious what they do on DL. Benton is can absolutely (and probably will be) a Cam replacement. There are quite a few 3-4 NTs in this draft -

T'Vondre Sweat - Texas - 6'4 362
Kris Jenkins - Michigan - 6'3 305
Dontay Corleone - Cincinnati - 6'2 318
Mckinnley Jackson - TAMU - 6'2 325
Nazir Stackhouse - Georgia - 6'3 320

Stackhouse would probably be my pick right now.

Ehhhhhh...Wentz had massive success early and was a #2OA pick. Just don't think the guy drafted #20 gets the same amount of rope. Then again, it's the Stillerz.

The new OC should have a lot to do with this decision, IMO.

You basically answered why I think Kenny will have a solid 4 years before they move on from him. I just cannot imagine it happening, and I cannot imagine them bringing in a coordinator who doesn't think Kenny is the guy. This is just the Steelers way and they won't do Kenny dirty like that. If they do, I'm here for it.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'm curious what they do on DL. Benton is can absolutely (and probably will be) a Cam replacement. There are quite a few 3-4 NTs in this draft -

T'Vondre Sweat - Texas - 6'4 362
Kris Jenkins - Michigan - 6'3 305
Dontay Corleone - Cincinnati - 6'2 318
Mckinnley Jackson - TAMU - 6'2 325
Nazir Stackhouse - Georgia - 6'3 320

Stackhouse would probably be my pick right now.



You basically answered why I think Kenny will have a solid 4 years before they move on from him. I just cannot imagine it happening, and I cannot imagine them bringing in a coordinator who doesn't think Kenny is the guy. This is just the Steelers way and they won't do Kenny dirty like that. If they do, I'm here for it.

So mark whipple or leftwhich will be the oc cause no others will take kp

 

[Peat]

In general I'd hope the thinking Weidl can import to Pittsburgh is you're never too set at your most important positions in this league. Taking a QB isn't necessarily about your starting guy, it's about how your team is in general. I went searching for reactions to the Hurts drafting and I saw PFF frame it as the Eagles' chance of having a top 6 QB went from 20% to 28% and top 12 from 60% to 72%, and how many 2nd round picks give better value than that?

And I like that logic.

But I cannot reiterate enough how little I believe in this team's offence for developing QBs. It's one thing to be a QB factory if you produce good QBs. This team, not so much.

And also most guys don't have the profile for success that Hurts did. The PFF article made the case that Hurts should have been drafted far higher, and was right (this was right after the draft too). Most times the NFL get it right and guys drafted outside the 1st aren't starters. You need to be damn smart and sure you've made the right move... and accept it'll go wrong a lot.

For Weidl to push the case of picking QB like the Eagles did, he

a) Needs a real high ceiling guy there
b) Is effectively de facto arguing for firing Tomlin sooner or later, because you need a QB whisperer, and a QB whisperer is going to be a HC somewhere

So.. skeptical

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Its why i hope Tomlin lets Andy and Khan go find the oc. The qb coach

 

[JTG]

So regardless of where we all stand, I think we can all agree that we need Mitch to ball out so we can flip him after the season.

So mark whipple or leftwhich will be the oc cause no others will take kp

I do not believe that. Nor do I believe an OC would be so short sighted to not take a job over a QB with an organization like the Pittsburgh Steelers.

 

[JTG]

There isn;t a C in the league covering this guy, and in the division, I think Sweat would pick Linderbaum up off his feet and toss him. 6'4 almost 370. I could see him going the way of Mazi Smith and getting down to 340-350 for the draft. Dipped into the Texas well for our last stud NT. Could do it again.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

So regardless of where we all stand, I think we can all agree that we need Mitch to ball out so we can flip him after the season.



I do not believe that. Nor do I believe an OC would be so short sighted to not take a job over a QB with an organization like the Pittsburgh Steelers.

If i a oc with options and want to be a hc in the future the QB i am working with is the number 1 thing I am considering.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Have to admit this was a good burn, but you can't make things personal

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39058320/seahawks-jamal-adams-stands-intent-spat-reporters

 

[JTG]

Have to admit this was a good burn, but you can't make things personal

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39058320/seahawks-jamal-adams-stands-intent-spat-reporters

Ehhhhhhhhh. I'm all for guys standing up for themselves - bringing a family into it does cross a line for me. I think media guys in other markets can be bullies and sometimes as a player you need to push back. I have no idea how athletes play in NY, Montreal, Toronto, or Chicago.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Ehhhhhhhhh. I'm all for guys standing up for themselves - bringing a family into it does cross a line for me. I think media guys in other markets can be bullies and sometimes as a player you need to push back. I have no idea how athletes play in NY, Montreal, Toronto, or Chicago.

Yea you're in the wrong business if you don't want your "work" criticized (that goes for both media and players).
But you can't be invoking family

 

[JTG]

Yea you're in the wrong business if you don't want your "work" criticized (that goes for both media and players).
But you can't be invoking family

Pittsburgh really is a honeyhole for athletes and coaches. Media would rather be chummy than be actual reporters. You're playing in a decent sized city with good organizations and don't have to deal with a fraction of the media that you would in other cities.

The fact Pittsburgh media is just turning on Tomlin now...after not winning a playoff game in 7 years. It's incredible.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Joe Schoebert quote from something dude was reading saying there is no structure because there were so many veteran players and they were just expected to do x, y and z, be here and there, watch film, weight lift etc. without structure or governance relative to other organizations where coaches were making sure it happens and there to observe. Then he goes on to say that….. over the last 3 games 7 snaps where Steelers did not have 11 men on the field , 2 snaps with 12 men, and in Sunday’s AZ game specifically 2 illegal formation penalties.

Just a podcast from Jersey Jerry…whoever that is. Not familiar with him:



Starts about 5:45 in.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Pittsburgh really is a honeyhole for athletes and coaches. Media would rather be chummy than be actual reporters. You're playing in a decent sized city with good organizations and don't have to deal with a fraction of the media that you would in other cities.

The fact Pittsburgh media is just turning on Tomlin now...after not winning a playoff game in 7 years. It's incredible.

It’s amazing, by the way, the difference in perception a single game in a mediocre, playoff-free season can make. Mike Tomlin went 9-8 with a minus-38 point differential last season and got NFL Coach of the Year votes. Belichick went 8-9 with a plus-17 and got torn to pieces.

In the period of 2011-2023, the Steelers managed to make 1 AFCC game, no Super Bowls (these numbers could change depending on the outcome of this season, but I strongly doubt the Steelers make the AFCC game this year, let alone the Super Bowl). During that span, the Steelers' playoff appearances were mostly embarrassing and included getting Tebowed in 2011, getting Bortled in 2017, and getting Bakered in 2020 (with the Browns head coach home with COVID)

 

[ChaosAgent]

Have to admit this was a good burn, but you can't make things personal

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39058320/seahawks-jamal-adams-stands-intent-spat-reporters

The reporter's wife is good looking by most standards. So it's kind of a self-own, meaning Adams was always intending on posting a pic of the guy or his wife regardless of what he found. Which meant the guy really got under his skin.

 

[Peat]

The reporter's wife is good looking by most standards. So it's kind of a self-own, meaning Adams was always intending on posting a pic of the guy or his wife regardless of what he found. Which meant the guy really got under his skin.

Tbf, I don't think Adams is trying to hide that the guy has got under his skin. Not one bit. I don't even think he's trying to own the guy.

He's just signaling that he is willing to escalate and make it deeply personal and uncomfortable for the other guy if he won't shut up. Which, on the one hand, not cool. But on the other, I can get, because it doesn't sound like the journo was responding to anything less.