OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Blamed Canada

[JTG]

And I was going to piggyback on that, if it is true that there is a coaching budget and Tomlin decides to take most of it, that is all anyone needs to know about how important winning is and how inflated his ego is.

The theory checks out because that would make sense why he hires proxies instead of actual coordinators. Mike Tomlin fires Mike Tomlin to hire another Mike Tomlin.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Study: Do The Steelers Really Have The NFL's Smallest Coaching Staff?

It’s a line we’ve heard many times from Steelers’ fans: Pittsburgh is too cheap with its coaching staff. They don’t pay well enough and can’t bring in any big-name coaches (though Mike Tomlin’s salary proves they’re willing to at least retain top talent). And their penny-pinching ways is why the...

steelersdepot.com

https://thefootballusa.com/nfl-assistant-coaches-salary

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/news/pittsburgh-steelers-four-ideal-offensive-coordinator-candidates

Matt Canada made 1.5 million the average oc make 3 million

 

[bigdaddyk88]

And I was going to piggyback on that, if it is true that there is a coaching budget and Tomlin decides to take most of it, that is all anyone needs to know about how important winning is and how inflated his ego is.

The theory checks out because that would make sense why he hires proxies instead of actual coordinators. Mike Tomlin fires Mike Tomlin to hire another Mike Tomlin.

There shouldn’t be a budget the coaches salaries don’t effect the salary cap. I have said he needs to not sign any extension if he doesn’t get more money for assutants. Franklin at penn state got a blank check to find the hc of the offense
He was making 6 million when butler was around now he is making 12 million like Harbaugh in bmore but they spent 12 million on assistant coaches

 

[Pens x]

AR2 and Tomlin continue to sink this team.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

There shouldn’t be a budget the coaches salaries don’t effect the salary cap. I have said he needs to not sign any extension if he doesn’t get more money for assutants. Franklin at penn state got a blank check to find the hc of the offense
He was making 6 million when butler was around now he is making 12 million like Harbaugh in bmore but they spent 12 million on assistant coaches

Where is the evidence ART2 puts a cap on coaching?



He certainly has no issue paying Tomlin for mediocre results.

He also paid Butler well over his salary to keep him around when other teams came calling.

Tomlin is the one who puts together the coaching staff.

If it’s small, it’s because that’s how he wants it.

If Tomlin wanted to chase a big name OC, I’m 100% sure he would have AR2’s backing.

 

[JTG]

Unless it is known fact around the league that Tomlin micromanages his staff and no coordinator worth their money would want to work for him as a puppet.

There shouldn’t be a budget the coaches salaries don’t effect the salary cap. I have said he needs to not sign any extension if he doesn’t get more money for assutants. Franklin at penn state got a blank check to find the hc of the offense
He was making 6 million when butler was around now he is making 12 million like Harbaugh in bmore but they spent 12 million on assistant coaches

I don't know if there is a budget or not, but I would imagine if they are trying to run the team as a business, there is some level of coach salary cap internally.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

There shouldn’t be a budget the coaches salaries don’t effect the salary cap. I have said he needs to not sign any extension if he doesn’t get more money for assutants. Franklin at penn state got a blank check to find the hc of the offense
He was making 6 million when butler was around now he is making 12 million like Harbaugh in bmore but they spent 12 million on assistant coaches

Tomlin = the perpetual victim

 

[bigdaddyk88]

NFL Defensive Coordinator Salary in 2022 ãActual Salaryã - CareerExplorer

Find the average NFL Defensive Coordinator Salary in the US 2022. We have given the information about defensive coordinator salary college and Jim Leonhard salary.

careerexplorerguide.com

Butler didn’t even make 1 million a year

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

NFL Defensive Coordinator Salary in 2022 ãActual Salaryã - CareerExplorer

Find the average NFL Defensive Coordinator Salary in the US 2022. We have given the information about defensive coordinator salary college and Jim Leonhard salary.

careerexplorerguide.com

Butler didn’t even make 1 million a year

You are really reaching… no one knows what his salary was.

The article even states it’s speculation.

Steelers and many org don’t tell us what their assistants actually make.

How much do NFL coordinators make in 2022?

The New England Patriots made some NFL news last week when deciding not to give its staff traditional coordinator titles. Here’s how much the best offensive and defensive minds make in 2022.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

Unlike the players, coaches’ salaries are notoriously private and much of the information is speculation based on previous contracts.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Ok we will see Khan got them to invest money into hiring new and more scouts when he got the job. Its long been known they are cheap when paying assistants and position
Coaches

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ok we will see Khan got them to invest money into hiring new and more scouts when he got the job. Its long been known they are cheap when paying assistants and position
Coaches

Ok let’s play this “Rooneys are too cheap to pay for assistant coaches (but make Tomlin the fifth highest paid coach in NA) game.

Did that stop Cowher from having one of the most impressive coaching trees during his tenure?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Peat]

I think it's a fair point that, regardless of pay, if Tomlin was selecting great football minds and giving them great educations in football, we'd be seeing a lot of ex-Tomlin guys around the league. Hell, poor pay would make it more likely that more of them would jump ship quick.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Laughing at made up stats. I've watched SF 5 games this season. The number of free rushers bringing heat on Purdy are rare to non existent. He also has plays with the most weapons in the NFL and he has one of the top 3 offensive coaches in league. Ignore my point, but if you believe Purdy is anywhere near what he is with the Steelers as he is at SF, cool. It's your right to believe whatever fairytale your heart desires. I on the other hand live in a place call reality.

Would suggest you watch this and tell me if you disagree:



He thinks Kenny Pickett hardly EVER reads the field…even when it looks like he’s doing it, he’s really not...instead he’s trying to eye fake the defense into getting off his primary read.

His evidence is that nine times out of ten when Pickett does appear to be scanning around, he still comes back to whoever he was looking at first. Even when he glances at another guy who is wide open, he will ignore that guy and go back to the primary read…indicating he’s not really seeing anything on the field.

On the play he got hurt, he did the same thing…he actually did briefly glance towards Pickens’ and Austin’s side…then went right back to the other side of the field.

I believe this. I think for whatever reason, KP isn’t reading anything…he is simply a first read then run guy.

And whether it’s coaching or it’s him…he has not progressed beyond this.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Ok let’s play this “Rooneys are too cheap to pay for assistant coaches (but make Tomlin the fifth highest paid coach in NA) game.

Did that stop Cowher from having one of the most impressive coaching trees during his tenure?

Asking for a friend.

His tree was as successful own their own as Billachick and he said offering Lebeau 500.00 a year made him the highest paid assistant in steelers history

I think it's a fair point that, regardless of pay, if Tomlin was selecting great football minds and giving them great educations in football, we'd be seeing a lot of ex-Tomlin guys around the league. Hell, poor pay would make it more likely that more of them would jump ship quick.

You don’t take a steelers job for the money you take it for job security

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think it's a fair point that, regardless of pay, if Tomlin was selecting great football minds and giving them great educations in football, we'd be seeing a lot of ex-Tomlin guys around the league. Hell, poor pay would make it more likely that more of them would jump ship quick.

Open question - is be a bad evaluator of coaches, or does he deliberately hire worse coaches? The "B players hire C players" phrase.

 

[Peat]

You don’t take a steelers job for the money you take it for job security

What about if people took Steelers' jobs because they developed coaches well and it was a good way to have a good NFL career, thus ensuring good coaches at the Steelers? That'd be better, right?

 

[Peat]

Open question - is be a bad evaluator of coaches, or does he deliberately hire worse coaches? The "B players hire C players" phrase.

I struggle to imagine he deliberately gets bad coaches.

He could be a bad evaluator.

He could also be bad at developing them.

It's also possible he picks good guys but there's other circs getting in the way of them getting jobs after. I think I've heard it said he tends to favour older, more experienced coaches rather than younger on the way up coaches?

And it's also possible that Rooney has been involving himself in the selection of some coaches too

 

[bigdaddyk88]

What about if people took Steelers' jobs because they developed coaches well and it was a good way to have a good NFL career, thus ensuring good coaches at the Steelers? That'd be better, right?

Absolutely it kinda why anyone who knew Mcvay got hired. This is why i said Andy needs use his connections to bring in Kevin Patello from Philadelphia
I want to see the cheat motions the dolphins eagles 49ers and rams use. We tried it on the play kp got hurt on

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Would suggest you watch this and tell me if you disagree:



He thinks Kenny Pickett hardly EVER reads the field…even when it looks like he’s doing it, he’s really not...instead he’s trying to eye fake the defense into getting off his primary read.

His evidence is that nine times out of ten when Pickett does appear to be scanning around, he still comes back to whoever he was looking at first. Even when he glances at another guy who is wide open, he will ignore that guy and go back to the primary read…indicating he’s not really seeing anything on the field.

On the play he got hurt, he did the same thing…he actually did briefly glance towards Pickens’ and Austin’s side…then went right back to the other side of the field.

I believe this. I think for whatever reason, KP isn’t reading anything…he is simply a first read then run guy.

And whether it’s coaching or it’s him…he has not progressed beyond this.

I’m still giving him another year and I’ll pretend Tomlin will actually admit to himself he can’t develop QBs and hire a talented OC who can.

More realistically we are stuck in Tomlin Purgatory for another decade+.

It will be like the 80s watching him try and develop his versions of the Todd Blackledges and Bubby Bristers.

Except Noll could still win playoff games even during those hard times with guys like Malone and Bubs.

 

[TimmyD]

Brock Purdy would not look as good here as he does in San Francisco. I don’t think that’s really debatable… however, Brock Purdy would look better here than Kenny Picket has so far. That’s the point I think people are trying to make.

 

[JTG]

Would suggest you watch this and tell me if you disagree:



He thinks Kenny Pickett hardly EVER reads the field…even when it looks like he’s doing it, he’s really not...instead he’s trying to eye fake the defense into getting off his primary read.

His evidence is that nine times out of ten when Pickett does appear to be scanning around, he still comes back to whoever he was looking at first. Even when he glances at another guy who is wide open, he will ignore that guy and go back to the primary read…indicating he’s not really seeing anything on the field.

On the play he got hurt, he did the same thing…he actually did briefly glance towards Pickens’ and Austin’s side…then went right back to the other side of the field.

I believe this. I think for whatever reason, KP isn’t reading anything…he is simply a first read then run guy.

And whether it’s coaching or it’s him…he has not progressed beyond this.

I agree with portions of this. I do believe he's not quickly getting through reads. I also believe a part of that is because he isn't ready for this job. He was never going to be a guy that should start right away, but here we are. He is going to take some time and that was always the case regardless of how far we over drafted him and how we rushed him into starting.

 

[TimmyD]

I agree with portions of this. I do believe he's not quickly getting through reads. I also believe a part of that is because he isn't ready for this job. He was never going to be a guy that should start right away, but here we are. He is going to take some time and that was always the case regardless of how far we over drafted him and how we rushed him into starting.

He was never going to be the guy who should start right away? I mean he was the most pro ready QB in the class and he’s already 25 years old. We aren’t talking about some 22 year old kid here

 

[ChaosAgent]

I struggle to imagine he deliberately gets bad coaches.

He could be a bad evaluator.

He could also be bad at developing them.

It's also possible he picks good guys but there's other circs getting in the way of them getting jobs after. I think I've heard it said he tends to favour older, more experienced coaches rather than younger on the way up coaches?

And it's also possible that Rooney has been involving himself in the selection of some coaches too

Maybe he is much more comfortable with guys who have lower ambition. I hate the "where do you see yourself in 5 years" question, but methinks Tomlin avoids guys who could be an NFL head coach in the future. Like Matt Canada clearly was capped in his career aspirations. So were Fichtner, Butler and Austin.

 

[JTG]

He was never going to be the guy who should start right away? I mean he was the most pro ready QB in the class and he’s already 25 years old. We aren’t talking about some 22 year old kid here

He was and it was an atrocious QB class...probably the worst in decades. His age has nothing to do with learning the pro game. It makes no sense to get hung up on age with development of a player if size isn't the only issue. He needed to sit a year and then take over. He not only took over basically right away, but he also had a coordinator who was getting openly mocked on national television by players who played in the league for years, and an atrocious offensive line.

If you watched Kenny at Pitt, you have seen this Kenny before. He will look like this for a while, and then all of a sudden things slow down and he settles in. It's going to take a couple of years, and now he's going into next offseason with a brand new offense.

 

[Peat]

You could argue no rookie QB should be starting right away. I think there was a fairly common argument around here when it was clear that's where the Steelers were going with Pickett.

But if you don't believe that then yes, the scouting reports were he could start right away.


I also think you could argue that if the Steelers had picked Purdy, he'd be on someone else's practice squad and not an MVP candidate. The Steelers' ability to develop guys on the offensive side of the ball should absolutely be in that question. If Purdy came over to the Steelers now, sure, that'd be different, but it seems utterly plausible they wouldn't recognise what he can do and would screw it up.

Maybe he is much more comfortable with guys who have lower ambition. I hate the "where do you see yourself in 5 years" question, but methinks Tomlin avoids guys who could be an NFL head coach in the future. Like Matt Canada clearly was capped in his career aspirations. So were Fichtner, Butler and Austin.

Possible, either consciously or subconsciously. I'd be reluctant to say he does it consciously when that is such an act of self-sabotage.

edit: Also, and with second hand knowledge of the reports at the time, but isn't there reason to believe Fichtner and Canada were Rooney choices?