OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[Goalie_Bob]

Teams do feel pressure to get their next QB, and subsequently they overdraft. That's really what I'm getting at; I don't want the Steelers to do that. Willis has all the signs of a guy who will struggle in the NFL with throwing accuracy and game processing being weaknesses. His hype is almost entirely on some mythical potential and his mobility.

I don't think it is pressure, it is just a fact of life in today's NFL. The last time a team with a mediocre QB won the Super Bowl was Tampa Bay in 2003 with Brad Johnson. And that was before the most recent set of rule changes that made it an even more QB driven league.

This whole, the Steelers should just build a team without a QB and then go and get one. Where is the mystical magical QB going to come from? That seems like a bad way of building a team because you have to hope everything is perfectly aligned.

 

[DanielPlainview]

It’s pressure. The QB has become so vital to winning that the anxiety of it pushes teams to make really stupid decisions.

It can be argued the Steelers are in the position where during a full rebuild process one would say it’s close to time to get the QB. The problem is this year the QB class is weak. So if they can further improve elsewhere, they can and will still likely be in a good spot in the next draft to get a QB

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don't think it is pressure, it is just a fact of life in today's NFL. The last time a team with a mediocre QB won the Super Bowl was Tampa Bay in 2003 with Brad Johnson. And that was before the most recent set of rule changes that made it an even more QB driven league.

This whole, the Steelers should just build a team without a QB and then go and get one. Where is the mystical magical QB going to come from? That seems like a bad way of building a team because you have to hope everything is perfectly aligned.

Goff and Jimmy G were in the super bowl. Goff did not have kupp against New England and Jimmy had a lead against KC in the Super Bowl.

 

[The Old Master]

This whole, the Steelers should just build a team without a QB and then go and get one. Where is the mystical magical QB going to come from? That seems like a bad way of building a team because you have to hope everything is perfectly aligned.

so you think it would be better to take a roll of the dice on a qb now and then what? if you start him with the team we now have it might work, but there would be a better chance of him ending on the ir shell shocked and ruined for life. it seems that bringing a young qb along on a good team is more the way to go than bringing him in to a bad team. imo

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

so you think it would be better to take a roll of the dice on a qb now and then what? if you start him with the team we now have it might work, but there would be a better chance of him ending on the ir shell shocked and ruined for life. it seems that bringing a young qb along on a good team is more the way to go than bringing him in to a bad team. imo

If they take a guy now and he blows, that tells me they will likely have a high pick and can take another shot.

I think we all have to face the reality that they may have to cycle through a few first round QBs before they find their next franchise guy.

Few teams get lucky and find their next guy right away.

Jets have been waiting longer than I’ve been alive.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If they take a guy now and he blows, that tells me they will likely have a high pick and can take another shot.

I think we all have to face the reality that they may have to cycle through a few first round QBs before they find their next franchise guy.

Few teams get lucky and find their next guy right away.

Jets have been waiting longer than I’ve been alive.

Except the new guy isn’t going to play this year and will be tough to get practice reps as QB3

 

[JTG]

If they take a guy now and he blows, that tells me they will likely have a high pick and can take another shot.

I think we all have to face the reality that they may have to cycle through a few first round QBs before they find their next franchise guy.

Few teams get lucky and find their next guy right away.

Jets have been waiting longer than I’ve been alive.

The Jets fall into this trap though of taking the best available QB...as do the Browns, and Cardinals, and Dolphins. At some point in time you have to build the team. Bring in a free agent QB. Trade for a young guy that is just not working out with his current team. I think it benefits this team way more building the rest of the team through the draft, and going after a QB by other means. Let someone else prove they can play and take that risk. I'd rather pay a premium to know the guy I'm trading for is legit and we have put the team in place where he can slot in and we can keep it moving.

 

[JTG]

I am hearing more and more news that Jordan Davis is the guy they want. If we cannot land Jordan Davis, I'd like for us to take Travis Jones in the 2nd round. I think the guy has potential to be an absolute monster.

I also haven't seen anything about Tuitt yet. He sold his house in Gibsonia and has moved to Atlanta. It would be nice to get a feel for what he's doing.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Except the new guy isn’t going to play this year and will be tough to get practice reps as QB3

If the Steelers take a QB in the first round, Mason Rudolph will be gone and the new guy will be QB2.

Sitting for a year used to be the standard. Certainly didn’t hurt Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Palmer, Young, Culpepper.

Big Ben was supposed to sit.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Mason probably sees the season out with the team

 

[Coastal Kev]

One more thing to consider; teams & fans write off qb's way too quickly. In the good ole days, it was very normal for qb not to hit his stride for 3-5 years. Bradshaw was almost out the door, if not for Gilliam's screw up in year 4. He also didn't hit his stride until year 7-8.

"Darnold or Trubisky sucks"........people say this like it's so definitive. It's not.........there's a lot of nuance with the position.

1st and foremost you need coaching that understands the talent of their QB and they build the offense & roster around his strengths.

*please feel free to gift me below, I think I want a water accessory this year and I don't want to spend my own cash.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If the Steelers take a QB in the first round, Mason Rudolph will be gone and the new guy will be QB2.

Sitting for a year used to be the standard. Certainly didn’t hurt Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Palmer, Young, Culpepper.

Big Ben was supposed to sit.

And Ben was supposed to be the 3rd QB his rookie year but batch got hurt in pre season. None of the QBs in this class should take a snap next year outside of Pickett. They invested to much time to dump Mason and force a rookie to be one hit away from playing before they are ready

 

[bigdaddyk88]

One more thing to consider; teams & fans write off qb's way too quickly. In the good ole days, it was very normal for qb not to hit his stride for 3-5 years. Bradshaw was almost out the door, if not for Gilliam's screw up in year 4. He also didn't hit his stride until year 7-8.

"Darnold or Trubisky sucks"........people say this like it's so definitive. It's not.........there's a lot of nuance with the position.

1st and foremost you need coaching that understands the talent of their QB and they build the offense & roster around his strengths.

*please feel free to gift me below, I think I want a water accessory this year and I don't want to spend my own cash.

With the rookie pay scale you only have 3 years to wait on a QB to develop if they aren’t the guy by year 4 you are not picking up the 5th year option and starting the process all over

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I am hearing more and more news that Jordan Davis is the guy they want. If we cannot land Jordan Davis, I'd like for us to take Travis Jones in the 2nd round. I think the guy has potential to be an absolute monster.

I also haven't seen anything about Tuitt yet. He sold his house in Gibsonia and has moved to Atlanta. It would be nice to get a feel for what he's doing.

He is working out with Heyward and Davis doesn’t rush the passers at all and is a 2 down line men teams just no huddled him out of the game

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Except the new guy isn’t going to play this year and will be tough to get practice reps as QB3

And?

If they take a new QB in round 1 he will eventually be the starter and if he blows as a starter, that means they will likely have a high pick… because… he… blows.

Not hard to follow.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The Jets fall into this trap though of taking the best available QB...as do the Browns, and Cardinals, and Dolphins. At some point in time you have to build the team. Bring in a free agent QB. Trade for a young guy that is just not working out with his current team. I think it benefits this team way more building the rest of the team through the draft, and going after a QB by other means. Let someone else prove they can play and take that risk. I'd rather pay a premium to know the guy I'm trading for is legit and we have put the team in place where he can slot in and we can keep it moving.

Ya, but who is the last QB that got traded or signed in FA that was even good?

Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannenhill? That’s not exactly an inspiring list. That’s the best of them and then a whole scary ass list of flame outs.

Teams also fall into the dumpster diving trap, and think because they are picking at the new trash, it won’t taste so bad.

Then they end up having mediocre to bad QB play for years.

There is no sure path out of this new mess they have without a franchise QB.

However, drafting a guy in the first round (top 15) makes it much more likely to find your next guy than any other alternative.

You can draft a QB in round 1 and still build a really good team around him, it’s not mutually exclusive that going the alternate route makes it more likely to build a good team.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Wilson, Brady and Manning were FA/trades but then you’re talking guys on the wrong side of 30 (or 40 in Brady’s case). And you have to sell a kidney to get one if you’re trading

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I don't think it is pressure, it is just a fact of life in today's NFL. The last time a team with a mediocre QB won the Super Bowl was Tampa Bay in 2003 with Brad Johnson. And that was before the most recent set of rule changes that made it an even more QB driven league.

This whole, the Steelers should just build a team without a QB and then go and get one. Where is the mystical magical QB going to come from? That seems like a bad way of building a team because you have to hope everything is perfectly aligned.

Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl. The Eagles won with their backup QB. A completely washed up Peyton Manning won. Were you in a years-long coma?

 

[Night Shift]

People talk hypothetical championships as if this coaching staff is going to hypothetically or magically guide them there.

You can have Prime Brady or Montana and Clown still can't get passed wild card weekend.

 

[JTG]

Ya, but who is the last QB that got traded or signed in FA that was even good?

Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannenhill? That’s not exactly an inspiring list. That’s the best of them and then a whole scary ass list of flame outs.

Teams also fall into the dumpster diving trap, and think because they are picking at the new trash, it won’t taste so bad.

Then they end up having mediocre to bad QB play for years.

There is no sure path out of this new mess they have without a franchise QB.

However, drafting a guy in the first round (top 15) makes it much more likely to find your next guy than any other alternative.

You can draft a QB in round 1 and still build a really good team around him, it’s not mutually exclusive that going the alternate route makes it more likely to build a good team.

The QB's drafted in the top 15 that have fizzled out isn't inspiring either. I mean, fact of the matter is it's hard to find a QB...especially a franchise one.

He is working out with Heyward and Davis doesn’t rush the passers at all and is a 2 down line men teams just no huddled him out of the game

Every single news outlet has already covered this with Davis - he didn't rush the passer at UGA because he didn't have to. The coach even said, in pass rushing situations they had better pass rushers, so that is who they used. Nothing through this draft process has suggested that Davis can't rush the passer or be a 3 down player. It was the same way people would tell Najee he didn't catch the ball a lot out of the backfield, and he stopped a reporter and basically asked him if it was because he couldn't or he didn't have the opportunity. It's very similar with Davis.

Wilson, Brady and Manning were FA/trades but then you’re talking guys on the wrong side of 30 (or 40 in Brady’s case). And you have to sell a kidney to get one if you’re trading

I mean, Denver went from Manning and won, f***ed around with drafting mediocre QBs over and over again, and now have Wilson. One way seems way more efficient to me.

I'm not against drafting a QB, but I'm not for just throwing shit against a wall and seeing what sticks either. If we are drafting a QB, make sure it's a guy who we have really good belief in and not drafting a guy because he's been hyped up a draft board.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The QB's drafted in the top 15 that have fizzled out isn't inspiring either. I mean, fact of the matter is it's hard to find a QB...especially a franchise one.


Every single news outlet has already covered this with Davis - he didn't rush the passer at UGA because he didn't have to. The coach even said, in pass rushing situations they had better pass rushers, so that is who they used. Nothing through this draft process has suggested that Davis can't rush the passer or be a 3 down player. It was the same way people would tell Najee he didn't catch the ball a lot out of the backfield, and he stopped a reporter and basically asked him if it was because he couldn't or he didn't have the opportunity. It's very similar with Davis.


I mean, Denver went from Manning and won, f***ed around with drafting mediocre QBs over and over again, and now have Wilson. One way seems way more efficient to me.

I'm not against drafting a QB, but I'm not for just throwing shit against a wall and seeing what sticks either. If we are drafting a QB, make sure it's a guy who we have really good belief in and not drafting a guy because he's been hyped up a draft board.

I think we both agree finding a franchise guy is extremely tough.

Where we disagree is that you can find one via trade or FA.

In the last 20 years, I can’t think of one guy outside of Drew Brees, that was found via trade or FA.

While there are a bunch of busts picked in the top 15, I can find dozens of franchise guys picked there as well.

It’s simply the best and most proven way to find a franchise guy.

 

[Andy99]

Lol….

“ESPN’s Todd McShay claims that he has been told none of the 19 teams in front of the Steelers are all that interested in drafting a quarterback.

“As it stands right now, my sources don’t believe there is a team in the top 19 picks that will be drafting a QB,” McShay wrote Monday. “There’s always a shock on draft night, and teams always look to trade up for a signal-caller, but the Pittsburgh Steelers at No. 20 is the first spot I’m hearing serious QB consideration. Word is that the Steelers like Liberty’s Willis, so the question for Pittsburgh GM Kevin Colbert and coach Mike Tomlin: Can they pull a Bill Belichick and just hold tight for their guy? (New England stayed put at No. 15 last April and landed Mac Jones.)”

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think we both agree finding a franchise guy is extremely tough.

Where we disagree is that you can find one via trade or FA.

In the last 20 years, I can’t think of one guy outside of Drew Brees, that was found via trade or FA.

While there are a bunch of busts picked in the top 15, I can find dozens of franchise guys picked there as well.

It’s simply the best and most proven way to find a franchise guy.

Manning (Broncos) and Stafford come to mind.

Basically if you get a good enough team around them, those types of Qb's can lead you to a SB

That Denver team Manning was on was pretty freaking good. Hell Trubinski might've been able to win with that supporting cast

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Manning (Broncos) and Stafford come to mind.

Basically if you get a good enough team around them, those types of Qb's can lead you to a SB

That Denver team Manning was on was pretty freaking good. Hell Trubinski might've been able to win with that supporting cast

Manning was really a stop gap who was 100 yrs old and Stafford is in his mid 30s.

I’m talking about getting a young franchise guy who can be around for 10+ years.

Watson was just traded, but that’s because he had like 20 sexual assault accusations agt him and he still cost a king’s ransom.

There aren’t any examples of young franchise QBs moving teams at a young age, again save Brees and his shoulder was basically the reason.

Teams never trade/let walk in FA any good young QBs that show promise of being a franchise guy.

Any young guy that is available in FA or via trade is a huge red flag, and it’s been proven again and again when a team gives up on a young QB, history overwhelmingly shows that he isn’t going to become a franchise QB.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Manning was really a stop gap who was 100 yrs old and Stafford is in his mid 30s.

I’m talking about getting a young franchise guy who can be around for 10+ years.

Watson was just traded, but that’s because he had like 20 sexual assault accusations agt him and he still cost a king’s ransom.

There aren’t any examples of young franchise QBs moving teams at a young age, again save Brees and his shoulder was basically the reason.

Teams never trade/let walk in FA any good young QBs that show promise of being a franchise guy.

Any young guy that is available in FA or via trade is a huge red flag, and it’s been proven again and again when a team gives up on a young QB, history overwhelmingly shows that he isn’t going to become a franchise QB.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but do you want a franchise guy or do you want to win the SB?

For me, I'm Machiavellian so it doesn't matter- there's more than 1 way to skin a cat. There's some proof here that if you get a good enough team around an average or average plus QB you can make it work.

I think the Steelers should focus on getting a good team and if/when a QB becomes available FA/Trade/Draft then nab him.

There is this hellbent notion among fans and most disturbingly the front office: gotta get a QB, gotta get a QB, gotta get a QB

They really don't need to address it this year. They have Mitch and Mason. They could draft a guy in the later rounds and it'd be sufficient coverage for this season.

Timing is everything in life. They are trying to shoehorn a QB high and it's going to blow up in their faces. Mark it down.