OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[Coastal Kev]

Yeah I feel Pickett is a more mobile Tua and jones. If he hits he can be Cousins

He should be much greater than Cousins. I keep hearing that comparison and I don't see that all with KP. I see a mix of Brees and Romo, and in my eyes has an elite ceiling. Cousins would be almost his bottom.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

If Trubisky is a top 10 QB then the Steelers would be dumb to dump him off unless they are given a 1st round pick for him. He is only 27 years old, if he is playing that well they should keep him for the next season.

 

[Son Goku]

Hes should be much greater than Cousins. I keep hearing that comparison and I don't see that all with KP. I see a mix of Brees and Romo, and in my eyes has an elite ceiling. Cousins would be almost his bottom.

His confidence and comfortability says a lot about his ability to succeed in the NFL IMO. The mental aspect for QB's is half the battle.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

MT has built in bonuses and escalators that if he and the team do well the Steelers would gladly pay. However so would another team QB play is sparse in the league. They drafted Pickett to be the guy after the guy who took over from the HOF 7. I could see them flip Mt and bring back mason as the backup he will have a batch type carrer and take a development guy day 3


Yeah unless someone offered a day 2 pick for Mason that was always the case this year.

Those escalators may be why they trade MT - if he hits them and has an ok season, but plays 70% of the snaps - he will count 12 mil agt the cap next season.

Zero chance he stays on their roster at that price as a backup to KP.

If he has a really good season, zero chance he plays under the current deal.

Basically, MT won’t be around next season in any capacity under his current deal… unless he doesn’t play 70% of his snaps and has an ok season.

If Trubisky is a top 10 QB then the Steelers would be dumb to dump him off unless they are given a 1st round pick for him. He is only 27 years old, if he is playing that well they should keep him for the next season.

He isn’t going to play for 8m if he has a big season.

He’s going to want to cash in - would you be comfortable giving him a big long term deal after one good season?

Zero chance MT gives up that kind of leverage and just plays out that last year of his deal.

He won’t risk an injury after a great season playing for chump change (by NFL QB standards).

 

[Peat]

If Trubisky is a top 10 QB then the Steelers would be dumb to dump him off unless they are given a 1st round pick for him. He is only 27 years old, if he is playing that well they should keep him for the next season.

Depends a bit on how and why that happens, and where Pickett looks in comparison. This team is entering the season with a roughly top 10 skill position room, if Trubisky looks great because everyone there brings it and he just has to be their game manager, then is that a situation where you can't just hand Pickett the keys?

That's without considering the money angle Jiggy mentioned, or whether Trubisky even wants to hang around with Pickett breathing down his neck.

 

[xlm34]

If Mitch plays well, I think the market for him will be pretty good. Looking ahead, there aren't a ton of QBs that are going to be available via free agency (Jimmy G and Baker are the "big" names right now) and it doesn't seem like there will be a ton on the trade market like there was this year.

I don't see how you wouldn't get at least a Carson Wentz like return for him. You may even get what Sam Bradford went for a while back (a first and a conditional fourth) depending on how desperate a team is. It'd be a little bit of a risky move, but it could pay off big time.

Then again, Trubisky could look like total shit which is a possibility.

 

[JTG]

I can’t see it happening… BUT if MT has such a dominating year, he’s going to want to get paid if the Steelers elect to keep him.

If he makes the Pro Bowl and does all this great stuff, he will never come back next season to play for a quarter of what he could then command.

He would be passing up his big chance to make bank.

He could sit out until he gets a big extension or force a trade. But I can’t see a scenario where he has a massive year then comes back and plays for NFL scrap money.

MT has built in bonuses and escalators that if he and the team do well the Steelers would gladly pay. However so would another team QB play is sparse in the league. They drafted Pickett to be the guy after the guy who took over from the HOF 7. I could see them flip Mt and bring back mason as the backup he will have a batch type carrer and take a development guy day 3


Yeah unless someone offered a day 2 pick for Mason that was always the case this year.

I can get behind these.

If Mitch plays well, I think the market for him will be pretty good. Looking ahead, there aren't a ton of QBs that are going to be available via free agency (Jimmy G and Baker are the "big" names right now) and it doesn't seem like there will be a ton on the trade market like there was this year.

I don't see how you wouldn't get at least a Carson Wentz like return for him. You may even get what Sam Bradford went for a while back (a first and a conditional fourth) depending on how desperate a team is. It'd be a little bit of a risky move, but it could pay off big time.

Then again, Trubisky could look like total shit which is a possibility.

I think two 2nds is what I see as the ideal return if he has a big year. I would be over the moon if we could get a 1st for him.

Again, it will be really interesting to see what kind of GM Khan is, and if he bring more of a business mind to the position rather than letting things flow a little more freely like Colbert.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If Mitch plays well, I think the market for him will be pretty good. Looking ahead, there aren't a ton of QBs that are going to be available via free agency (Jimmy G and Baker are the "big" names right now) and it doesn't seem like there will be a ton on the trade market like there was this year.

I don't see how you wouldn't get at least a Carson Wentz like return for him. You may even get what Sam Bradford went for a while back (a first and a conditional fourth) depending on how desperate a team is. It'd be a little bit of a risky move, but it could pay off big time.

Then again, Trubisky could look like total shit which is a possibility.

It would be an ideal season if MT balled out, KP got into a few games for experience, then Steelers get a nice return for moving MT.

I keep thinking about this Steelers segment on ESPN I caught on Youtube… no idea who these guys were, but the one guy mentioned that fans start having fantasies about how good a FA QB will be when their favorite team signs him.

“He was in a bad situation… he had bad players around him… and that coach!”

Then he said the season starts and reality sets in… “oh right, it’s Trubisky. This is why he was a FA”

That’s more likely how it goes, but we shall see.

 

[Coastal Kev]

It would be an ideal season if MT balled out, KP got into a few games for experience, then Steelers get a nice return for moving MT.

I keep thinking about this Steelers segment on ESPN I caught on Youtube… no idea who these guys were, but the one guy mentioned that fans start having fantasies about how good a FA QB will be when their favorite team signs him.

“He was in a bad situation… he had bad players around him… and that coach!”

Then he said the season starts and reality sets in… “oh right, it’s Trubisky. This is why he was a FA”

That’s more likely how it goes, but we shall see.

Trubisky was never awful in Chicago. The organization also has been a cesspool for offense for like forever. Mitch could be great, I'm excited. The Steelers had a glaring hole at the most important position and they have 2 very viable options for the future.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Thought everyone would enjoy this from The Athletics Ted Nguyen:



Obviously he points out the limitations of their scariness being held back by their QB situation, but Tomlin and Colbert look to have done a masterful job rebuilding the offense in short order.

Now it’s up to the QBs, Canada and the o-line not to f*** it all up.

Idk where they are getting "Claypool is a good #2 WR" from
But agree with the rest. Besides, Pickens will be the #2 anyway and move Claypool correctly to the slot

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Kaboly: Devin Bush's season is off to a rough start, but the Steelers' D still needs him

Asked whether this is a make-or-break season for him, Bush said Tuesday, “I’m going to still be in the NFL, so we’ll see."

theathletic.com

 

[Empoleon8771]

This team is Pickett's team going forward and Trubisky is just a stopgap. Even if Trubisky is great, you move on from him and give the keys to Pickett.

In Smith's last season with KC, he had a TD-INT ratio of 26-1 while making the pro bowl and having the best season in his career. They still traded him after that year to give the keys to Mahomes. That is exactly what they should be doing with Trubisky.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This team is Pickett's team going forward and Trubisky is just a stopgap. Even if Trubisky is great, you move on from him and give the keys to Pickett.

In Smith's last season with KC, he had a TD-INT ratio of 26-1 while making the pro bowl and having the best season in his career. They still traded him after that year to give the keys to Mahomes. That is exactly what they should be doing with Trubisky.

SHOULD vs WILL happen are 2 very different things.

Steelers are quite loyal to players who perform. I agree with you, but don't think the Steelers do

 

[Pens1566]

This team is Pickett's team going forward and Trubisky is just a stopgap. Even if Trubisky is great, you move on from him and give the keys to Pickett.

In Smith's last season with KC, he had a TD-INT ratio of 26-1 while making the pro bowl and having the best season in his career. They still traded him after that year to give the keys to Mahomes. That is exactly what they should be doing with Trubisky.

KP != Mahomes

 

[Empoleon8771]

SHOULD vs WILL happen are 2 very different things.

Steelers are quite loyal to players who perform. I agree with you, but don't think the Steelers do

Nah, I'm pretty confident they'd end up trading Trubisky if he exceeded expectations.

You don't draft Pickett in the 1st round if you're willing to sit him for a journeyman QB having a good year IMO.

KP != Mahomes

And Trubisky isn't as good as Smith either.

Whether Pickett equals Mahomes (which he obviously doesn't) is irrelevant to the concept. If a team is willing to sit a 1st round QB behind a decent starting QB, they wouldn't be taking a QB in the 1st round.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

KP != Mahomes

Mahomes was a huge question mark that off-season when they traded Smith.

He had major struggles in camp as a rookie and played in one game at the end of that season.

Hill even admitted he thought Mahomes was trash as a rookie in camp.



He was even a huge shit show early on in his second camp before he became a sensation later that season:

Chiefs' Patrick Mahomes has been a mistake-filled mess during camp

In his first training camp as the starting quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs, things are not going especially well for Patrick Mahomes.

sportsnaut.com

So it’s not like they traded Smith with the hindsight of knowing what Mahomes was going to become.

It was all faith based on their hope for his potential.

 

[Pens1566]

Mahomes was a huge question mark that off-season when they traded Smith.

He had major struggles in camp as a rookie and played in one game at the end of that season.

Hill even admitted he thought Mahomes was trash as a rookie in camp.



He was even a huge shit show early on in his second camp before he became a sensation later that season:

Chiefs' Patrick Mahomes has been a mistake-filled mess during camp

In his first training camp as the starting quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs, things are not going especially well for Patrick Mahomes.

sportsnaut.com

So it’s not like they traded Smith with the hindsight of knowing what Mahomes was going to become.

It was all faith based on their hope for his potential.

That's fine and all, but we're talking about someone that had sky high potential and really only had ?s about scheme/system, and someone that could become ... Andy Dalton.

Like you said, potential. Means a ton in this comparison.

 

[xlm34]

That's fine and all, but we're talking about someone that had sky high potential and really only had ?s about scheme/system, and someone that could become ... Andy Dalton.

Like you said, potential. Means a ton in this comparison.

Why wouldn’t Pickett be able to become more than Dalton?

 

[Pens1566]

Why wouldn’t Pickett be able to become more than Dalton?

Ask the scouts. That was the most common "ceiling" I've seen in his draft profiles.

I mean he could be the next HoF'er, but ...

 

[Peat]

That's fine and all, but we're talking about someone that had sky high potential and really only had ?s about scheme/system, and someone that could become ... Andy Dalton.

Like you said, potential. Means a ton in this comparison.

Not saying you're wrong that Pickett doesn't have Mahomes' raw talent but at the same time, if this org doesn't think he's got the tools to be a long term franchise QB, someone you prioritise and put your faith in, why did they take him in the 1st round?

Either they think he's got what he needs to be the guy and we're in a similar position to Kansas, or they've just been real dumb.

 

[xlm34]

Ask the scouts. That was the most common "ceiling" I've seen in his draft profiles.

I mean he could be the next HoF'er, but ...

I don’t need to ask the draft analysts to know that ceiling is basically just “does this guy have a big arm and is he athletic”?

I mean, yeah you need to at least reach a certain baseline in physical ability. You can’t have an arm like Duck. I think you need at least some mobility and ability to create out of structure. And I think Pickett meets whatever requirements are needed there to be a good NFL QB.

But there’s a lot more to it than just physical traits that people that come up with ceilings don’t necessarily consider.

 

[Pens1566]

Not saying you're wrong that Pickett doesn't have Mahomes' raw talent but at the same time, if this org doesn't think he's got the tools to be a long term franchise QB, someone you prioritise and put your faith in, why did they take him in the 1st round?

Either they think he's got what he needs to be the guy and we're in a similar position to Kansas, or they've just been real dumb.

I've always thought more towards the latter. It was a shitty year for drafting QBs and they took the most "ready".

Valedictorian of summer school.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's fine and all, but we're talking about someone that had sky high potential and really only had ?s about scheme/system, and someone that could become ... Andy Dalton.

Like you said, potential. Means a ton in this comparison.

You don’t invest a first in a guy you think can become Andy Dalton.

If the org drafted KP thinking he has the potential to be a guy who can’t win a playoff game, there is some serious issues in their war room.

Mahomes wasn’t some all-time prospect coming out. There were tons of questions about his wonky mechanics and that he was yet another product of the Air Raid system.

That whole draft was considered a shitty year for QBs.

Mahomes was basically the first guy to have any success coming from that system, but obviously that was a huge stigma he carried around until the 2018 season proved otherwise.

A lot of people were laughing at the Chiefs huge “mistake” to give up all that capital and draft Mahomes.

So let’s not pretend he was Trevor Lawrence coming out.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

You don’t invest a first in a guy you think can become Andy Dalton.

If the org drafted KP thinking he has the potential to be a guy who can’t win a playoff game, there is some serious issues in their war room.

Mahomes wasn’t some all-time prospect coming out. There were tons of questions about his wonky mechanics and that he was yet another product of the Air Raid system.

That whole draft was considered a shitty year for QBs.

Mahomes was basically the first guy to have any success coming from that system, but obviously that was a huge stigma he carried around until the 2018 season proved otherwise.

A lot of people were laughing at the Chiefs huge “mistake” to give up all that capital and draft Mahomes.

So let’s not pretend he was Trevor Lawrence coming out.

The bolded is true.

But understand the context of this draft (or the Steelers' needs). Their long time QB just retired and this organization always telegraphs their intention. Nearly everyone had them taking a QB with their 1st pick. Low and behold, what happens?

This isn't a knock on KP by any means. But the Steelers took their highest ranked QB on the board. If Pickett was gone they would have taken their next ranked QB. It's just how they do business and I don't agree with that philosophy.

 

[Pens1566]

You don’t invest a first in a guy you think can become Andy Dalton.

If the org drafted KP thinking he has the potential to be a guy who can’t win a playoff game, there is some serious issues in their war room.

Mahomes wasn’t some all-time prospect coming out. There were tons of questions about his wonky mechanics and that he was yet another product of the Air Raid system.

That whole draft was considered a shitty year for QBs.

Mahomes was basically the first guy to have any success coming from that system, but obviously that was a huge stigma he carried around until the 2018 season proved otherwise.

A lot of people were laughing at the Chiefs huge “mistake” to give up all that capital and draft Mahomes.

So let’s not pretend he was Trevor Lawrence coming out.

The bolded is where I'm at. The org probably really messed up this transition (although I don't think it really matters much now as they're not anywhere near contending).

They brought in Trubisky as a manager/stopgap type and drafted someone in the first that might end up being as good as Trubisky. They should have either gone after someone with more potential, or filled any one of the number of glaring holes on the roster.