OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[xlm34]

I would have traded down and acquired more picks instead of taking Harris (obviously that assumes you have a partner). Creed Humphrey would have been there AND they still could have likely gotten Muth. See my previous post about RB's- those can be found later in the draft.

They needed to rebuild the lines and they insisted that a guy who never played Center, attempt it in the pros. Talk about square peg in round holes.

The 2019 class outside the top 5 is turning out to be kinda average. So they totally misread the board there too.
If you trade up, you better get a game changer. The last time they did that, I believe was Troy. The last time they traded down, they picked Casey Hampton

I was kind of in agreement last year with your idea to move down and with Humphrey (who would still be amazing to have), but now I’m seeing a plan coming into place. Basically surround a young QB with a ton of weapons. And then hopefully this next offseason will continue the attempt to revamp the line. I just never thought they’d actually take a QB so soon after Ben so we’d end up just wasting Najee’s good years. I totally disagree with your assessment of Harris as a player though. He’s absolutely multi-dimensional.

And 2019, that’s what I’m talking about with hindsight though. Yeah now we can say outside the top 5 the draft wasn’t anything special, but how did they misread the board at the time? They went up to get a potential impact guy who wouldn’t have been there when they picked. Whiffing on a player isn’t misreading the board.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I'm not as concerned about the line as others are. The 2nd team had a pretty solid showing with Haeg, Leglue and Hassenauer leading the way. I would welcome a top OL next draft, but my first choice would be a stout NT.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

There is no way the Steelers should take a NT in the first round. They just aren't that useful in today's NFL.

I want the run defense to be better as well but not at the price of taking a NT in the first round.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

How isn’t he a multi-purpose threat? He had 74 rec last season and almost 1700 all purpose yards.

His rookie numbers blew away Bell’s.

I think he’s a lot like Lev Bell actually. Chain mover with great feet/vision that is an elite receiver out of the backfield.

He even has the same build.

Bell was never a home run threat either.

If you face the Steelers, do you fear Harris running or catching the ball? Does he have the ability to reverse field on you if you're not in your gap?

Off the top of my head, Harris got probably 95% of the snaps on offense. His stats are reflective of usage, not of effectiveness. It's the same thing that McCann experienced. Just because he put up numbers doesn't mean he was necessarily effective

And Bell WAS a homerun threat in his first few seasons. After his knee issues he was a different player

Again this isn't a knock against Harris, just a knock against RB's taken in Rd 1. They better be special. Harris isn't special

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If KP works out this team could really be setup for the future given his rookie deal, the talent they have added the last couple years and all the cap space they will have.

On top of that, the cap is projected to shoot up almost 70m in the next 3 yrs.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I was kind of in agreement last year with your idea to move down and with Humphrey (who would still be amazing to have), but now I’m seeing a plan coming into place. Basically surround a young QB with a ton of weapons. And then hopefully this next offseason will continue the attempt to revamp the line. I just never thought they’d actually take a QB so soon after Ben so we’d end up just wasting Najee’s good years. I totally disagree with your assessment of Harris as a player though. He’s absolutely multi-dimensional.

And 2019, that’s what I’m talking about with hindsight though. Yeah now we can say outside the top 5 the draft wasn’t anything special, but how did they misread the board at the time? They went up to get a potential impact guy who wouldn’t have been there when they picked. Whiffing on a player isn’t misreading the board.

You are correct- whiffing on a player isn't by itself misreading the board. Those happen.

But context is extremely important here. They moved up several spots to get a particular player (Bush). You absolutely cannot miss if you move up because the opportunity cost of that draft capital you used is gone. They didn't miss with Troy and you'd do it all over again.

If they stayed put and still have gotten Bush that's a different story. Again, you can't be 100% with your selections, but at least you didn't blow extra picks on it.

They've spent the past ~5 years trying to fill Shazier's spot in FA/trades/drafts. It's had a major ripple effect with cap commitments and draft picks. Some of it they had no control over, but others have been big time missteps.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If you face the Steelers, do you fear Harris running or catching the ball? Does he have the ability to reverse field on you if you're not in your gap?

Off the top of my head, Harris got probably 95% of the snaps on offense. His stats are reflective of usage, not of effectiveness. It's the same thing that McCann experienced. Just because he put up numbers doesn't mean he was necessarily effective

And Bell WAS a homerun threat in his first few seasons. After his knee issues he was a different player

Again this isn't a knock against Harris, just a knock against RB's taken in Rd 1. They better be special. Harris isn't special

Bell was never a home run threat. The entire knock on him was he had too much weight on him his rookie year.

He slimmed down but was never a home run threat. He simply wasn’t a fast dude.

He had one year where he barely had any plays over 30 yards - it was almost comical.

And I went over this years back, but Bell was fed production by Tomlin. I said when he left the Steelers his numbers would drop and low and behold…

He was a good back in a system that artificially boosted his production.

So again, I see little difference between Bell and Harris, except Harris runs with more power.

Bettis was a bell cow back and he was never a home run threat either.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I wanted KP, I believe in KP, but I also believe that Mitch has the ability to be a great starter for the franchise moving forward. So if Mitch stars this season and the Steelers surprise, I would have no problem keeping Mitch and moving KP next offseason. Should be a fun year and I'm looking forward to watching it all play out.

Debating going to the game Saturday in JAX....... has anyone been there and offer the 411 on the venue, city and nearby beaches?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Bell was never a home run threat. The entire knock on him was he had too much weight on him his rookie year.

He slimmed down but was never a home run threat. He simply wasn’t a fast dude.

He had one year where he barely had any plays over 30 yards - it was almost comical.

And I went over this years back, but Bell was fed production by Tomlin. I said when he left the Steelers his numbers would drop and low and behold…

He was a good back in a system that artificially boosted his production.

So again, I see little difference between Bell and Harris, except Harris runs with more power.

We agree that Bell was an entirely different back rookie vs subsequent years. I was worried about Bell after his 1st season bc I thought he was a bust. He slimmed down considerably.

Le'Veon Bell Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Le'Veon Bell. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Check out his avg rush after his 1st season. Dude was great, even if he was being fed. His vision was probably tops in the league. Then injuries hit (super weird how that happens with RB's under Tomlin).

It's very unfair to measure Harris bc he had a shitty Oline and we've only seen him for 1 season. But I see nothing dynamic about him. And I admit he could have another gear like we saw with Bell. But Harris has a different frame than Bell did so I don't think that happens. And yes I agree Harris runs with more power vs Bell.

Can u imagine last years team with Snell as the starter and no Najaee

Who in the hell said Snell would be the starter in my scenario? They would have grabbed a RB in the later rounds or FA in my scenario.

Nice strawman though

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We agree that Bell was an entirely different back rookie vs subsequent years. I was worried about Bell after his 1st season bc I thought he was a bust. He slimmed down considerably.

Le'Veon Bell Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Le'Veon Bell. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Check out his avg rush after his 1st season. Dude was great, even if he was being fed. His vision was probably tops in the league. Then injuries hit (super weird how that happens with RB's under Tomlin).

It's very unfair to measure Harris bc he had a shitty Oline and we've only seen him for 1 season. But I see nothing dynamic about him. And I admit he could have another gear like we saw with Bell. But Harris has a different frame than Bell did so I don't think that happens. And yes I agree Harris runs with more power vs Bell.



Who in the hell said Snell would be the starter in my scenario? They would have grabbed a RB in the later rounds or FA in my scenario.

Nice strawman though

We agree on the fact you can get good backs after round 1, so let’s just put that to the side and say we agree there.

I simply have no problem with using a first on Harris because their RB situation was becoming alarming.

He also came in and lived up to the hype with 1700 all purpose yards and a 1000 yard season behind that shitty line.

Bell we definitely disagree on. Even after he slimmed down he was never explosive.

For his career he had 2.2% of his career carries with the Steelers go over 20+. League avg over that span was 2.5%.

So he wasn’t even as avg as his peers in being a home run threat.

Dude wasn’t fast.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

We agree on the fact you can get good backs after round 1, so let’s just put that to the side and say we agree there.

I simply have no problem with using a first on Harris because their RB situation was becoming alarming.

He also came in and lived up to the hype with 1700 all purpose yards and a 1000 yard season behind that shitty line.

Bell we definitely disagree on. Even after he slimmed down he was never explosive.

For his career he had 2.2% of his career carries with the Steelers go over 20+. League avg over that span was 2.5%.

So he wasn’t even as avg as his peers in being a home run threat.

Dude wasn’t fast.

I don't think Bell was necessarily "fast" but he was quick and could make people miss with his jump cut. Plus his vision was outstanding. He reminded me a bit of Barry Sanders where he'd just wait and wait, then wait until he found his hole and could burst through it. (no one come back and say I think he was Barry Sanders please).

Harris' vision to me is concerning. Even factoring in the crappy oline play there were holes available and he completely missed them. Is that a vision problem or him becoming accustomed to there being no holes on 50% of his carries? Like I said, I feel for the dude bc he's a good player (seems like a down to earth dude too) and he was stuck in a bad position. But I still feel like he should have flashed more and he didn't. Your mileage may vary.

As always time will tell. My doubts about him are listed. I don't mind eating crow or being proven wrong.

 

[The Old Master]

This season really rides on Devin Bush. For the defense to be effective, they need takeaways. Fitzpatrick making 120+ tackles cannot happen if we are going to turn the ball back over to our offense. With that being said, I'd go after a MLB to pair with Jack. Stopping the run needs to be 1A on the list of things to accomplish. I have no faith we can do that with a 35 year old Alualu (coming off of a blown knee) and Devin Bush.

keep an eye on the final cuts........there could be another lb coming in.

 

[xlm34]

If KP works out this team could really be setup for the future given his rookie deal, the talent they have added the last couple years and all the cap space they will have.

On top of that, the cap is projected to shoot up almost 70m in the next 3 yrs.

Yeah they’re in damn good shape if Pickett hits. I had my doubts and it’s obviously still way too early to make any judgements, but I’m really encouraged with the direction the whole rebuild or retool or whatever you want to call it is going.

And if the ideal Trubisky scenario that you mentioned yesterday happens? This team could be really good, really quickly.

 

[xlm34]

NFL had an absolute lay up and completely f***ed it up.

 

[dogthateats]

The NFL is a joke to me. It’s weird how people like Ray Lewis are beloved and celebrated by the NFL and countless others get off extremely lightly for domestic abuse etc. Then on the other hand, you have guys get lengthy suspensions for cannabis lol.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

There's a point where you have to tell the NFLPA's lawyer to eat a d*** on this one and Blackball the creep.

 

[TotesTorts]

Defenses are changing very quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if the Steelers move to a base 4-2-5 with a safety/MLB hybrid - a role Edwards may slide into.

FA/draft priority will be DL, ILB, OL, S

Also, how would we feel about sending Claypool and a 4th for Roquon Smith?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The 11 game suspension means that Watson still accrues a full season. That means the Browns can't roll over his $1m salary into next year. Smart move by the NFL.

Defenses are changing very quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if the Steelers move to a base 4-2-5 with a safety/MLB hybrid - a role Edwards may slide into.

FA/draft priority will be DL, ILB, OL, S

Also, how would we feel about sending Claypool and a 4th for Roquon Smith?

I can't remember the exact splits, but I think the Steelers are in that formation like over 60% of the time.
Their base 3-4 about 25%

 

[Empoleon8771]

This ruling sucks from 2 perspectives:

1. It's setting up Watson's first game back to be against Houston, which they likely did for ratings
2. It allows Watson to accrue a full season of service, which prevents him from having a $1 million salary next year as well.

So basically, Watson makes sure he gets as much money as possible and the NFL gets a big ratings game as his first game back. Just showing that the NFL doesn't actually care about sexual assault.

 

[Factorial]

This ruling sucks from 2 perspectives:

1. It's setting up Watson's first game back to be against Houston, which they likely did for ratings
2. It allows Watson to accrue a full season of service, which prevents him from having a $1 million salary next year as well.

So basically, Watson makes sure he gets as much money as possible and the NFL gets a big ratings game as his first game back. Just showing that the NFL doesn't actually care about sexual assault.

Hoo boy, the ruling is minutes old and the conspiracy theories are already flying. It would be nice not to see this inflict sports the way it has politics.

Like

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

View attachment 577883


Hoo boy, the ruling is minutes old and the conspiracy theories are already flying. It would be nice not to see this inflict sports the way it has politics.

Like

It's not a conspiracy theory- the NFL is all about ratings.
Note that when Brady rescinded his retirement, the NFL pivoted and adjusted the prime time games.

It's not naive to believe this was intentional

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I think the 11 games is too enact the highest amount of punishment on the Browns as possible this season and then they have to pay Watson his full amount next season.

 

[Peat]

Well it's better than six.

As for what happened behind closed doors, how independent the independent adjudicators were, what the NFLPA said and what the NFL said, why we went from wanting indefinite with a year minimum to getting six and now to eleven, how serious the NFL were with indefinite... could come up with countless theories.

But it's better than six but still not a good day for the NFL as a whole.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Well it's better than six.

As for what happened behind closed doors, how independent the independent adjudicators were, what the NFLPA said and what the NFL said, why we went from wanting indefinite with a year minimum to getting six and now to eleven, how serious the NFL were with indefinite... could come up with countless theories.

But it's better than six but still not a good day for the NFL as a whole.

I think it was an obvious compromise

NFL wanted the whole season (17 games)
The original offer was 6.

So they met in the middle and the NFL liked that fact his 1st game was against Houston.

 

[Factorial]

I think the 11 games is too enact the highest amount of punishment on the Browns as possible this season and then they have to pay Watson his full amount next season.

This is far more likely to have been the reason over a matchup with Houston.