OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[Peat]

It isn't close at all and the reasons are our QBs and the coaching talent surrounding the head coach. QB is going to be incredibly expensive to address from an asset standpoint. A better staff is going to cost Rooney $6-$8m/year. It will also cast Tomlin as purely a motivational leader and undermine his reputation as a football tactician. Yet the noise around the staff, Canada in particular, was loud enough to where I think Rooney and Tomlin make the change.

They also need to fix the defensive backfield. They get slaughtered because their DBs suck.

QB is one guy though, and we've seen write-offs suddenly burst into life in the right situation - not into being elite, but at least into that QB10-ish range that allows respectability. What happens if the team suddenly finds itself blessed there, this year or next?

I think you're right to point to the secondary. I think we all know the OL is hugely limiting. I can't decide how worried I am about the DL. But there's a lot of good things about the team...

... particularly if they had the coaching you rightly point to. That's the big one.

I don't think Tomlin was affected by the noise around Canada though if he's telling Harris who cares if the box is stacked, run it some more.

Kirk is a legitimate upgrade at the most important position in football, I wouldn't turn my nose up at that. Not elite but clearly in that QB10ish range year in and year out. We'd probably have to extend him longer term than I'd be comfortable with though.

Stated my preference for Justin Fields a few times.

Russ is the only other clear cut starter available, after that you got guys like Tanne, Minshew, and Brissett, which might be an upgrade over Pickett but I'd rather just keep #8 at that point.

The problem is in this league, unless they're cheap, QB10 assures you of a nice season and not doing dick in the playoffs. Hence turning my nose up at it.

We’re not winning in a shootout against Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, etc. That said, Kirk is definitely the best suited QB for that scenario.

That's the bar though. They meet that bar or it's just a matter of when they go home.

For me, I don't want to bother with temporary solutions that don't get us near the bar. I want the team to be disciplined about only moving when they can get near the bar, even if it means some rough times.

I’m not really sure about the achillies injury affect on throwing mechanics. Would need to look into that a bit more. Might have to subscribe to QB School’s Patreon to get that answer

Me neither! I know having a bum ankle can severely effect your range of movement, and I know QB throwing often relies on full body motion (although there are guys who more upper body only, and I don't know which Cousins is). But it is a live worry for me until I hear otherwise from someone who knows better.

 

[T1K]

QB is one guy though, and we've seen write-offs suddenly burst into life in the right situation - not into being elite, but at least into that QB10-ish range that allows respectability. What happens if the team suddenly finds itself blessed there, this year or next?

I think you're right to point to the secondary. I think we all know the OL is hugely limiting. I can't decide how worried I am about the DL. But there's a lot of good things about the team...

... particularly if they had the coaching you rightly point to. That's the big one.

I don't think Tomlin was affected by the noise around Canada though if he's telling Harris who cares if the box is stacked, run it some more.



The problem is in this league, unless they're cheap, QB10 assures you of a nice season and not doing dick in the playoffs. Hence turning my nose up at it.



That's the bar though. They meet that bar or it's just a matter of when they go home.

For me, I don't want to bother with temporary solutions that don't get us near the bar. I want the team to be disciplined about only moving when they can get near the bar, even if it means some rough times.



Me neither! I know having a bum ankle can severely effect your range of movement, and I know QB throwing often relies on full body motion (although there are guys who more upper body only, and I don't know which Cousins is). But it is a live worry for me until I hear otherwise from someone who knows better.

We could go +20 years before we find that top 5 superstar QB. I’d rather try to maximize Watt’s prime while we can, otherwise blow it up and trade him — which we know isn’t happening realistically.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Who?

I am sure that you can point to one or two but the vast majority have been clear eyed about the team being lacking and having close to zero chance in the playoffs if they made them.

The Steelers had an amazing draft last April. And the Steelers STILL are a mess and far away from being a legit contender. Just about everyone here that I see post either say that explicitly or indirectly.

Clearly not, must people are on here to complain about the coaching. There's a number of posters saying the Steelers are just a QB away.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

To me, the whole thing with the “will he won’t he” return for 2024 for Tomlin just seemed like an attempt to get AR2 to move on his contract extension and get a raise…we’ll see if AR2 extends him…seems like there was some doubt on Tomlin’s side, or at least with a raise lol…years of futility already under Tomlin apparently isn’t enough lol…

Of course it was a ploy to get more money.

I saw some silly speculation on here that it simply couldn't be true!

It just made no sense, why would Tomlin try to eek out more money!

That's just living the naive life.

No matter how much you have, unless you are Bill Gates and shit, you are going to try to get more coin.

I don't begrudge Tomlin for it, it's more AR2 being so damn gullible.

 

[MrBrightside]

Clearly not, must people are on here to complain about the coaching. There's a number of posters saying the Steelers are just a QB away.

That's just not accurate. There are a number of people who note they will never be a real contender without upgrading the QB position but there are next to no posts where anyone says they are only a QB away.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If we had a QB that threw for +4000 yards and +25 TDs, I’d argue it would get us in the contender conversation if guys like Watt are healthy.

It’s incredible they were able to make the playoffs with these aggregate QB stats:

3421 yds and 13 TDs

Gardner Minshew outperformed that in 13 games.

They literally had a HOF Qb and some of the best skill players in the league and still didn't win anything for over a decade.

Tomlin has three playoff wins since 2010.

Thats not an accident.

Getting Cousins or whomever isn't changing that problem.

Roll with KP, roll with some vet guy like Cousins, still going to be the same end result come January.

Only difference is how much cap will be eaten up needlessly.

If you think otherwise, I have a whole lot of facts that beg to differ.

 

[T1K]

They literally had a HOF Qb and some of the best skill players in the league and still didn't win anything for over a decade.

Tomlin has three playoff wins since 2010.

Thats not an accident.

Getting Cousins or whomever isn't changing that problem.

Roll with KP, roll with some vet guy like Cousins, still going to be the same end result come January.

Only difference is how much cap will be eaten up needlessly.

If you think otherwise, I have a whole lot of facts that beg to differ.

Agreed, Tomlin’s time is up, but if all conversations devolve into that then we might as well lock this thread up.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

They literally had a HOF Qb and some of the best skill players in the league and still didn't win anything for over a decade.

Tomlin has three playoff wins since 2010.

Thats not an accident.

Getting Cousins or whomever isn't changing that problem.

Roll with KP, roll with some vet guy like Cousins, still going to be the same end result come January.

Only difference is how much cap will be eaten up needlessly.

If you think otherwise, I have a whole lot of facts that beg to differ.

Their HOF QB was past his prime by the time they acquired those skill position players.

 

[MrBrightside]

Agreed, Tomlin’s time is up, but if all conversations devolve into that then we might as well lock this thread up.

Beat me to it and that's absolutely right, but every post he makes is through the Tomlin sucks lens so here we are.

No, Cousins won't fix everything. No, upgrading at QB isn't the only need. But the idea that they shouldn't even try because Tomlin sucks is pure nihilism.

 

[Peat]

We could go +20 years before we find that top 5 superstar QB. I’d rather try to maximize Watt’s prime while we can, otherwise blow it up and trade him — which we know isn’t happening realistically.

I mean that's all true.

I guess the thing for me is I'm happy to see them take gambles on maximising the ceiling at risk of looking silly during Watt's prime.

And the moment you give out that big QB money, that ceiling plummets. Assuming Kirk Cousins gets 35m, that's a big bite out of the team.

And as such, I'd rather gamble on finding a rookie or reclamation sized shot at it. I'd rather take the gamble.

There's also the part where I'd put not going 20+ years as the number one priority, and that requires confronting this team's ability to evaluate and develop QBs and one way or another, improving it. A guy like Cousins stops that process. But I accept my "kill or cure" approach to that isn't for everyone.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Depends on your definition of contending they can easily get to 35 million in FA to spend plus this up coming draft and be fine.

I got to 45-50mil by cutting the following and then restructuring or Retiring Cam Heyward.

Ogunjobi (Post June 1st Designation)
Trubisky (Post June 1st Designation)
Robinson
Okorafor
Pat Pete

In general, I would much rather pay Cousins 30mil than Cam 22mil next season. I see plenty of reports that state that Cousins will sign for around 2 year and 30milAAV. He isn't going to get a 5 year, big money deal.

 

[JTG]

I'm at the point if a QB falls and they are a really good value - pick them. If not, pick the BPA.

If we were within shooting distance of the top 5, I'd say mortgage future drafts to get a guy like Maye or Daniels. The cost is just too much at 20.

 

[xlm34]

I got to 45-50mil by cutting the following and then restructuring or Retiring Cam Heyward.

Ogunjobi (Post June 1st Designation)
Trubisky (Post June 1st Designation)
Robinson
Okorafor
Pat Pete

In general, I would much rather pay Cousins 30mil than Cam 22mil next season. I see plenty of reports that state that Cousins will sign for around 2 year and 30milAAV. He isn't going to get a 5 year, big money deal.

Yeah I think between cuts, restructures, and extensions there are plenty of ways to sign Cousins AND address other areas. It doesn’t have to be either or.

Plus him signing for 30 million doesn’t mean his cap hit will be 30 million.

 

[Rossi Rat]

Mark going off on Lenny Spigot again. Narcissistic baby who wears his hat backwards. So true. So friggin’ true.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I think between cuts, restructures, and extensions there are plenty of ways to sign Cousins AND address other areas. It doesn’t have to be either or.

Plus him signing for 30 million doesn’t mean his cap hit will be 30 million.

Back-loading his contract to create a low cap the first year seems like a good way to find yourself unable to do much if a true solution does become available next year, which is one of the last things I want. I'd like this team to preserve as much flexibility around the QB position as possible until it's solved.

I got to 45-50mil by cutting the following and then restructuring or Retiring Cam Heyward.

Ogunjobi (Post June 1st Designation)
Trubisky (Post June 1st Designation)
Robinson
Okorafor
Pat Pete

In general, I would much rather pay Cousins 30mil than Cam 22mil next season. I see plenty of reports that state that Cousins will sign for around 2 year and 30milAAV. He isn't going to get a 5 year, big money deal.

All of Peterson, Okorafor, Ogunjobi, Heyward if cut, and the unmentioned Cole need to either be replaced in FA at no small cost or replaced in the first 2, maybe 3, rounds of the draft or you leave giant holes. Can that be done while paying Cousins 30m?

I feel dubious on that. It feels like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Something I'd consider if this was the route would be trading DJ. That should help create the cap space/picks needed to round the team out.

 

[JTG]

This will be an interesting draft for Khan. One year you can catch lightning in a bottle and be the "Khan Artist" but I'm curious to see how he operates this year. I'm also curious to see if he has what it takes to get us value for guys who don't have long term futures here. He has shown that he will.

The problems lie at the coaching staff's feet. This roster is talented. The front office is providing talented players.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Cousins was willing to sign for only 2 years and $30 million AAV, I’d absolutely do that. I was expecting that he would both want more term and more money than that. It’s a no brainer to pay him that if he’s willing to take it.

I think you could cut Trubisky and Okorafor without worrying about getting a high cost replacement. I’d like to see them take another LT or RT in the draft regardless, so that would replace Okorafor. I figure you could get most of the way to being able to afford Cousins by just cutting those two and restructuring existing contracts with the team. There is some additional fat that could be cut beyond that as well, but Trubisky and Okorafor cut with restructuring some deals should get most of the way there.

I’d also add Cole as a guy I’d cut and plan on using like a 3rd to draft a new center to replace him.

 

[MrBrightside]

Back-loading his contract to create a low cap the first year seems like a good way to find yourself unable to do much if a true solution does become available next year, which is one of the last things I want. I'd like this team to preserve as much flexibility around the QB position as possible until it's solved.



All of Peterson, Okorafor, Ogunjobi, Heyward if cut, and the unmentioned Cole need to either be replaced in FA at no small cost or replaced in the first 2, maybe 3, rounds of the draft or you leave giant holes. Can that be done while paying Cousins 30m?

I feel dubious on that. It feels like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Something I'd consider if this was the route would be trading DJ. That should help create the cap space/picks needed to round the team out.

Letting perfect be the enemy of good is a great way to find yourself in QB purgatory for a long ass time.

 

[JTG]

Letting perfect be the enemy of good is a great way to find yourself in QB purgatory for a long ass time.

I think this is a good point, and it's one of the points why I'm fine with the QB situation currently. I think these QBs with a proper NFL game plan, they can execute it.

We have a few holes to fill, but my hope is after this draft we can start drafting for value and not have to get stuck paying 32 year old players top of the market values. Ben's contract and paying dead weight sunk this team quickly.

 

[Peat]

If Cousins was willing to sign for only 2 years and $30 million AAV, I’d absolutely do that. I was expecting that he would both want more term and more money than that. It’s a no brainer to pay him that if he’s willing to take it.

I think you could cut Trubisky and Okorafor without worrying about getting a high cost replacement. I’d like to see them take another LT or RT in the draft regardless, so that would replace Okorafor. I figure you could get most of the way to being able to afford Cousins by just cutting those two and restructuring existing contracts with the team. There is some additional fat that could be cut beyond that as well, but Trubisky and Okorafor cut with restructuring some deals should get most of the way there.

Having to get a day one starting OT at 20 is not a comfortable situation to me.

Still, it is the logical position to target so sure, that's one, but there's still plenty of other areas to address.

Letting perfect be the enemy of good is a great way to find yourself in QB purgatory for a long ass time.

I'll take that gamble. I'd rather see the team swing for the fences then bunt a bunch of okay to good seasons that never go further.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I got to 45-50mil by cutting the following and then restructuring or Retiring Cam Heyward.

Ogunjobi (Post June 1st Designation)
Trubisky (Post June 1st Designation)
Robinson
Okorafor
Pat Pete

In general, I would much rather pay Cousins 30mil than Cam 22mil next season. I see plenty of reports that state that Cousins will sign for around 2 year and 30milAAV. He isn't going to get a 5 year, big money deal.

Yeah you can to 45 to 50 give cousins each fully guaranteed contract 35 million now you have 15 million at most to sign cb2 safety and 2 dl.
I think DJ and Cam get extensions and they look to trade moore and chuks. The post june cuts of lary o and mitch does cover the draft and the carry over they use for the season

Kirk just got 1 year for 35 million i don’t think he is taking much less than that

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I'm at the point if a QB falls and they are a really good value - pick them. If not, pick the BPA.

If we were within shooting distance of the top 5, I'd say mortgage future drafts to get a guy like Maye or Daniels. The cost is just too much at 20.

At some point the most likely option is, in my opinion, to buy into a rebuild and draft within range to take a top quarterback prospect, or make a reasonable trade to get one.

Or pay the price even if it is high to move from around 20. If the rebuild is part of the growing process of that new quarterback so be it.

My fear is that they instead stay in Philadelphia Flyer level mediocrity for generations.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pittsburgh Steelers Salary Cap | Over the Cap

Pittsburgh Steelers salary cap, contracts, bonus money, dead money, and cap savings for every player

overthecap.com

Super useful site here to lay out the cap savings by cutting players. Cutting the following players would save them this much:

-Trubisky: $5.25 million (has to be post-June 1st)
-Cole: $4.75 million
-Okorafor: $8.75 million
-Robinson: $10 million
-Ogunjobi: $9.75 million (has to be post-June 1st)
-Peterson: $6.85 million

You wouldn’t want to cut all of these guys because you only have a limited amount of resources to backfill those spots, but I think Trubisky, Okorafor, Cole and Robinson are all painfully obvious cut candidates and that saves you $28.75 million. I think what you do is cut those 4 and try to draft a LT/RT, WR and C with their 1st through 3rd round picks respectively.

I’d be tempted to cut Peterson as well, because I don’t think he’s worth the cap hit he’s at for next year. I’m just unsure if you’d get better for the savings you’d get, so cutting him would just require you to use up the saved money on a replacement.

Having to get a day one starting OT at 20 is not a comfortable situation to me.

Still, it is the logical position to target so sure, that's one, but there's still plenty of other areas to address..

They don’t have to do that, though. It’s not ideal but they can stick with Moore at LT and Jones at RT for next year. That’s just what I’d want to do.

Okorafor is a backup at this point and barely played in the second half of the year. Regardless of whether they take a LT/RT in the 1st round, cutting him is a no brainer.

 

[T1K]

Personally I’d rather move Jones to LT, his natural position. His pass blocking still needs work, but there’s no reason to believe he can’t improve on that.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Pittsburgh Steelers Salary Cap | Over the Cap

Pittsburgh Steelers salary cap, contracts, bonus money, dead money, and cap savings for every player

overthecap.com

Super useful site here to lay out the cap savings by cutting players. Cutting the following players would save them this much:

-Trubisky: $5.25 million (has to be post-June 1st)
-Cole: $4.75 million
-Okorafor: $8.75 million
-Robinson: $10 million
-Ogunjobi: $9.75 million (has to be post-June 1st)
-Peterson: $6.85 million

You wouldn’t want to cut all of these guys because you only have a limited amount of resources to backfill those spots, but I think Trubisky, Okorafor, Cole and Robinson are all painfully obvious cut candidates and that saves you $28.75 million. I think what you do is cut those 4 and try to draft a LT/RT, WR and C with their 1st through 3rd round picks respectively.

I’d be tempted to cut Peterson as well, because I don’t think he’s worth the cap hit he’s at for next year. I’m just unsure if you’d get better for the savings you’d get, so cutting him would just require you to use up the saved money on a replacement.



They don’t have to do that, though. It’s not ideal but they can stick with Moore at LT and Jones at RT for next year. That’s just what I’d want to do.

Okorafor is a backup at this point and barely played in the second half of the year. Regardless of whether they take a LT/RT in the 1st round, cutting him is a no brainer.

Peterson is awful and I can't imagine how bad he will be with another year on his body. It would be absurd to not cut him.