OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Pickett was not some raw 21-year-old. He was the most pro Ready quarterback in a week class he flat out sucks sure he can do you want Mason has done and work at the Manning academy to get better but until KP learns nfl open and reading defenses he isn’t going anywhere. They are going back to 05 on offense run it and throw it deep out of play action

As I said before, either Tomlin does a piss poor job of evaluating QBs, or a shitty job of developing them.

He saw KP every day next door to him for years and really f***ed up hard on evaluating him with an advantage no other coach had with KP in his backyard, or he f***ed up his development.

There is no in between here.

None of that changes the fact that KPs now likely a head case and their best chance could be Mike Tomczak 2.0.

I was overly optimistic last off season, so much so I talked myself into the idea bringing back the worst OC I’ve seen in my lifetime could work.

Not falling into a silly ass trap like that again.

Reality is reality.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

As I said before, either Tomlin does a piss poor job of evaluating QBs, or a shitty job of developing them.

He saw KP every day next door to him for years and really f***ed up hard on evaluating him with an advantage no other coach had with KP in his backyard, or he f***ed up his development.

There is no in between here.

None of that changes the fact that KPs now likely a head case and their best chance could be Mike Tomczak 2.0.

I was overly optimistic last off season, so much so I talked myself into the idea bringing back the worst OC I’ve seen in my lifetime could work.

Not falling into a silly ass trap like that again.

Reality is reality.

Well the good news to start is you won’t have to convince yourself MC as OC could work.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Pickett's problem isn't being a head case. It's simply not being good. The dude does not have a single impressive trait.

 

[JTG]

QB is a pretty big team need. I don't know how you can look at Pickett and be satisfied but to each their own. Picking another QB at #20 (whether he's the QB4 or QB1 of his class in the case of Pickett) is probably going to be a reach though, so I agree we shouldn't target one in round one. Which is why I've been saying Fields for #52 is ok value.


It's funny how for the past couple threads we've been talking about Pickett v Fields and their inability to see the field, while simultaneously dismissing the idea of taking McCarthy. And this is his writeup:

View attachment 819735

More athletic Drew Brees sounds like the greatest player ever

I don't think it's that important because it's not going to be the focus. The focus is going to be the running game, so we should do what we can to make that as successful as possible, and picking linemen is a two-fer for both the passing and rushing attack.

Kenny should be good enough to be able to take care of the ball and move the chains. If he is still struggling this season, that's a serious problem and I'm full on board replacing him immediately.

Wanna bet he goes to a team and ends up being a stud with his new team?

I would absolutely take that bet. He isn't good at football. Dotson was phenomenal here until they flipped him sides.

 

[JTG]

Yeah, I don't think they'll trade up for McCarthy or take him even if he falls to 20 for that matter. I've never been that impressed by McCarthy. There's never been a game where I've watched him play and came away thinking he's one of the best college QB's.

The hiring of Authur Smith has me slightly more intrigued by McCarthy though. I can see Smith thinking McCarthy fits his offense because he played in a very similar offense at Michigan where they basically bludgeon you with the running game and take some shots in the passing game. He also has superior physical tools to Pickett, Rudolph etc. I still wouldn't want McCarthy earlier than round 2 though and it seems likely he'll be long gone by that time.

I think when it all shakes out, McCarthy is going to have a 2nd round grade on him. Could absolutely see him dropping like Levis did though.

 

[pistolpete11]

I dunno, I'm kinda interested in McCarthy. I like guys who come out to play in high pressure situations, and going 47% completion rate on 3rd and long is that. I'd want to dig into what's happening there. I like the profiles where it feels like his list of tools is everything. He doesn't use them like an NFL QB because he's 20 and has been in an easy offence, but I feel like that's the sort of guy that grows and leaves people wondering "why didn't people pick him earlier".

I reserve the right to change my mind on more digging, which I may not bother to do if Tomlin doesn't go to his pro day, but right now I'm intrigued.

Being intrigued by him and taking him in the first round are 2 different things.

He wasn't asked to do much at Michigan. Honestly, reminds me a lot of Pickett on the Steelers. We all hated that way to develop a QB for Pickett, so I don't think that's a great thing for McCarhty coming out of college either. I'd rather have a guy that was slinging the ball around in college even if he made a lot of mistakes. I think a guy like that is further developed.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Well the good news to start is you won’t have to convince yourself MC as OC could work.

Nope.

Just have to convince myself an incompetent coach who hasn’t won a playoff game in 7 yrs can do it with bizarro Mike Tomczak.

So far I don’t believe myself… if you can believe that.

 

[Peat]

Being intrigued by him and taking him in the first round are 2 different things.

He wasn't asked to do much at Michigan. Honestly, reminds me a lot of Pickett on the Steelers. We all hated that way to develop a QB for Pickett, so I don't think that's a great thing for McCarhty coming out of college either. I'd rather have a guy that was slinging the ball around in college even if he made a lot of mistakes. I think a guy like that is further developed.

They are, but if I was sufficiently intrigued, I'd want to see it happen... well, I'd want to see it happen on a team that understands QB development, because it is very true he's not been sufficiently developed yet. I'd be higher on taking him if you could draft him, then send him to the NCAA to a good program for a year.

But I think the collection of tools he's touted to have means he could be a top QB if developed right. My question to myself is where the draft profiles are overhyping him (probably yes).

 

[Pens1566]

McCarthy should have stayed at UM another year.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

As I said before, either Tomlin does a piss poor job of evaluating QBs, or a shitty job of developing them.

He saw KP every day next door to him for years and really f***ed up hard on evaluating him with an advantage no other coach had with KP in his backyard, or he f***ed up his development.

There is no in between here.

None of that changes the fact that KPs now likely a head case and their best chance could be Mike Tomczak 2.0.

I was overly optimistic last off season, so much so I talked myself into the idea bringing back the worst OC I’ve seen in my lifetime could work.

Not falling into a silly ass trap like that again.

Reality is reality.

It was a crzppy class they took the consensus best Qb. The year before the only Qb that will see year 4 is Lawrence and even the jags have questions on him. Most classes have 2 Qbs that actually hit on average.

Nope.

Just have to convince myself an incompetent coach who hasn’t won a playoff game in 7 yrs can do it with bizarro Mike Tomczak.

So far I don’t believe myself… if you can believe that.

It was 1 score game in the 4th despite the turnovers this year with mason at qb if they don’t turn it over multiple times they could have won this year with NOD jr

 

[Peat]

It was a crzppy class they took the consensus best Qb. The year before the only Qb that will see year 4 is Lawrence and even the jags have questions on him. Most classes have 2 Qbs that actually hit on average.

You don't have to draft a guy just because he's the consensus guy. You're allowed to say pass. Plenty of other teams did. The Steelers signed Trubisky so they could do precisely that if needed.

So this isn't a reasonable mitigation. The Steelers had a choice and exercised it on Pickett. As Jiggy says, either the evaluation or the development are off.

Or potentially both.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

You don't have to draft a guy just because he's the consensus guy. You're allowed to say pass. Plenty of other teams did. The Steelers signed Trubisky so they could do precisely that if needed.

So this isn't a reasonable mitigation. The Steelers had a choice and exercised it on Pickett. As Jiggy says, either the evaluation or the development are off.

Or potentially both.

Some people believe you just draft a sb every other year. Most teams don’t go from HOF Qb to another.

 

[T1K]

McCarthy should have stayed at UM another year.

He’s in the 1st round discussion and his coach just left. His stock was likely never gonna be higher. Plenty of guys with 1st/2nd round grades have stayed the extra year and regretted it.

 

[xlm34]

He’s in the 1st round discussion and his coach just left. His stock was likely never gonna be higher. Plenty of guys with 1st/2nd round grades have stayed the extra year and regretted it.

It would certainly be a risky move, but next year’s QB class looks pretty barren. If he stays another year and proves he’s more than just a game manager, he could earn himself a ton of money. And with NIL he wouldn’t be doing too bad for himself at UM.

Or like you said, he could go the Matt Barkley route and lose a ton of money.

 

[Pens1566]

He’s in the 1st round discussion and his coach just left. His stock was likely never gonna be higher. Plenty of guys with 1st/2nd round grades have stayed the extra year and regretted it.

He's almost unanimously viewed as raw and needing development. As others have pointed out, he was very limited in what he did at UM. He's mostly in the 1st round discussion because there are a ton of teams needing QBs this year (and the natty). Between all that and NIL ... it's easy to argue he'd be better served long term staying.

 

[JTG]

Dane Brugler said JC Latham is last year's Darnell Wright with more strength. Lolwut?

I so badly want to see them get a stud RT and then land Frazier in the 2nd round. My heart would stop.

McCarthy should have stayed at UM another year.

He's hedging bets. Had Harbaugh stayed, the decision is obvious. If they hire a coach and McCarthy doesn't gel with him...he's tumbling down draft boards. He's going to take what he can get. He has potential to be an amazing value pick.

 

[Pens1566]

Dane Brugler said JC Latham is last year's Darnell Wright with more strength. Lolwut?

I so badly want to see them get a stud RT and then land Frazier in the 2nd round. My heart would stop.



He's hedging bets. Had Harbaugh stayed, the decision is obvious. If they hire a coach and McCarthy doesn't gel with him...he's tumbling down draft boards. He's going to take what he can get. He has potential to be an amazing value pick.

Oh, I get it. Both ways have valid decision paths. All boils down to what he wants.

But 21yr olds are pretty f***ing stupid.

 

[Peat]

I do prefer QBs in McCarthy's situation to stay. I get why the uncertainty of the situation encourages them to jump once they get the jump but for me staying is the best for their chance of hitting their ultimate ceiling. I like QBs who back themselves and put weight on that. Richardson shouldn't have left last year, McCarthy shouldn't leave this year.

But you can't really think about that if they're there and you love the traits.

I also think that people are putting too much emphasis on team need and that championship. He has a lot of desirable traits and NFL teams bet big on that.

Some people believe you just draft a sb every other year. Most teams don’t go from HOF Qb to another.

Okay and meanwhile, away from strawman position land, it's accepted that it's difficult but -

Turning a 20 OA pick into a guy pretty much nobody has any optimism for by the end of year 2 is a bad outcome

And so is turning your third round pick with the first round grade into a guy who gets benched for a UDFA game manager in Y2 and isn't worth looking at for being a bridge QB by Y4.

And so too is drafting a guy in round seven and then releasing him after about 20 snaps in training camp if we're being thorough.

Three swings and three misses is a bad record. The fact that this record is punctuated by gobsmacking decisions like "hey, we don't need a QB coach to help develop the 3rd rounder we took" or "I know we basically anointed the kid as the future of the franchise but lets have him run with the thirds during training camp we don't need to actually prepare him to start just yet whoops this FA QB is awful lets just turf the kid in underprepared" suggests this is more than just the bounce of the ball.

 

[WickedWrister]

Yeah we're not even going to have a shot at taking McCarthy lol