OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[JTG]

It would make me happy if the Steelers gave Dylan Laube a shot in day 3 of the draft. UNH kid, can do a lot of things.

I like him alot. Legit #3 guy who we could develop and he does basically everything well. He is a guy real coaches love. Could very well see him bursting on the scene and many stand around wondering where he came from.

Art Rooney II 'Not Closing The Door' On Steelers Trading For QB

Pittsburgh Steelers Team President Art Rooney II did not rule out the team trading for a quarterback in the offseason. In a 1-on-1 conversation with KDKA’s Bob Pompeani, Rooney said he and the team won’t close the door on any avenue to improve their quarterback room in the coming months. “As we...

steelersdepot.com

Wellp, maybe that's the door to a change. Or maybe that's just PR. I dunno, we'll see.

That is indefinitely NOT a vote of confidence for Kenny.

Fields isn't even an upgrade on Pickett, I'd be pretty disappointed if that's the route they went.

I was looking at some other QB options and an idea popped in my head that may be worth exploring. If Penix falls to the 2nd round and he's still available at like pick #38, would you trade pick #51 and #84 to move up and draft him? I think he has 1st round talent and him falling will mostly be due to his injury concerns, but I think there is a very clear upside there that makes that gamble worthwhile.

The negative there is that making that move would basically take them out of the C market in the draft, at least with getting one that you know would be an improvement.

I agree that Fields isn't an upgrade currently. I think what they find interesting about Fields is how many of his deficiencies being coaching related. I don't personally think they are, but they very well may.

I wouldn’t spend assets to move up and pick Penix. Arm isn’t a bazooka, pocket issues, funky release, lefty. Not a big time athlete. Hope he proves me wrong but I think Pickett still has a better chance to be a guy than Penix does. The gap definitely isn’t big enough for me to use a precious early pick.

I really don’t like the QBs in this class after the top 3.

Edit: forgot McCarthy declared. He’s interesting.

I wouldn't draft Penix. He's an older prospect with injury issues and a lot of warts. I could actually see Penix being one of those dudes that is sitting there in the 6th round and people wonder why.

I like watching McCarthy, but I'm not sure I'd want him QB'ing my team...if that makes sense.

 

[WickedWrister]

Fields isn't even an upgrade on Pickett, I'd be pretty disappointed if that's the route they went.

I was looking at some other QB options and an idea popped in my head that may be worth exploring. If Penix falls to the 2nd round and he's still available at like pick #38, would you trade pick #51 and #84 to move up and draft him? I think he has 1st round talent and him falling will mostly be due to his injury concerns, but I think there is a very clear upside there that makes that gamble worthwhile.

The negative there is that making that move would basically take them out of the C market in the draft, at least with getting one that you know would be an improvement.

Disagree on Fields, higher pedigree and I'd wager he has higher trade value (probably a 2nd rounder) around the league than Pickett does. I've been beating this drum all offseason and I actually think there's a legitimate chance we trade for him.

Re: Penix - I probably wouldn't move up for him. Scary injury history. Tore his right ACL twice. And I think he's also dislocated both shoulders. Basically 4 seasons ended due to injury.

 

[WickedWrister]

Another veteran QB name to throw out there - Jameis Winston. He's going to be a cap casualty in NO. I was listening to a sound bite from some recent interview he gave and talked a lot about how important Bruce Arians was to his career, I think he knew him even in high school. Generally viewed as a good guy in the locker room and won't cost a ton. If you're looking for a legitimate 3rd option with NFL experience to challenge Pickett and Rudolph, there's worse options I guess.

 

[T1K]

Another veteran QB name to throw out there - Jameis Winston. He's going to be a cap casualty in NO. I was listening to a sound bite from some recent interview he gave and talked a lot about how important Bruce Arians was to his career, I think he knew him even in high school. Generally viewed as a good guy in the locker room and won't cost a ton. If you're looking for a legitimate 3rd option with NFL experience to challenge Pickett and Rudolph, there's worse options I guess.

I don’t think we’d be able to afford both. It’d be a little redundant too. I’d be fine with either of them though.

 

[T1K]

if we’re drafting a QB, I’d prefer doing it in round 1 regardless if we use our pick or trade back into the end of the 1st. Gaining that 5th year option is pretty huge if they’re a hit.

 

[JTG]

 

[Peat]

if we’re drafting a QB, I’d prefer doing it in round 1 regardless if we use our pick or trade back into the end of the 1st. Gaining that 5th year option is pretty huge if they’re a hit.

Feels like most QB hits are extended before the 5th year option can be exercised these days tbh.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Dulac: Don't 'Hold Your Breath' On Hines Ward Becoming Steelers WR Coach

When reports came out that Pittsburgh Steelers wide receivers coach Frisman Jackson would not return for the 2024 season, the rumor mill immediately kicked into overdrive. The hot name? Former Steelers WR Hines Ward. He’s a franchise legend, he interned with the Steelers and helped out with the...

steelersdepot.com

Brief synopsis, Tomlin likely burned a bridge with Ward over AB.

Several years back, Ward wanted to be the WR coach, was deep in discussions to join the staff, but Ward wanted the power to hold everyone in the WR room accountable (imagine that!)

Tomlin by then already had a special set of rules for AB, which ended up working out so damn well.

I’d like to say this is shocking, but Tomlin gonna Tomlin and he’s never had a losing season so.

Good thing they avoided having a guy with clout that would hold divas like DJ and Pickens accountable.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Fields isn't even an upgrade on Pickett, I'd be pretty disappointed if that's the route they went.

I was looking at some other QB options and an idea popped in my head that may be worth exploring. If Penix falls to the 2nd round and he's still available at like pick #38, would you trade pick #51 and #84 to move up and draft him? I think he has 1st round talent and him falling will mostly be due to his injury concerns, but I think there is a very clear upside there that makes that gamble worthwhile.

The negative there is that making that move would basically take them out of the C market in the draft, at least with getting one that you know would be an improvement.

Very much disagree with taking a QB in the first 3 rounds. They still need to build the lines out.

 

[pistolpete11]

Dulac: Don't 'Hold Your Breath' On Hines Ward Becoming Steelers WR Coach

When reports came out that Pittsburgh Steelers wide receivers coach Frisman Jackson would not return for the 2024 season, the rumor mill immediately kicked into overdrive. The hot name? Former Steelers WR Hines Ward. He’s a franchise legend, he interned with the Steelers and helped out with the...

steelersdepot.com

Brief synopsis, Tomlin likely burned a bridge with Ward over AB.

Several years back, Ward wanted to be the WR coach, was deep in discussions to join the staff, but Ward wanted the power to hold everyone in the WR room accountable (imagine that!)

Tomlin by then already had a special set of rules for AB, which ended up working out so damn well.

I’d like to say this is shocking, but Tomlin gonna Tomlin and he’s never had a losing season so.

Good thing they avoided having a guy with clout that would hold divas like DJ and Pickens accountable.

They need to add an eyeroll emoji to the like button.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Very much disagree with taking a QB in the first 3 rounds. They still need to build the lines out.

If they don’t replace Cole with a capable center, the o-line will continue to be a mess.

If he’s not the bottom C In the league, I feel sorry as f*** for the QB that lines up under anyone worse than him.

They need to add an eyeroll emoji to the like button.

I’m hoping for an aviator shades emoji.

 

[JTG]

Feels like most QB hits are extended before the 5th year option can be exercised these days tbh.

I could be wrong, but don't teams who want to extend have to accept the option and then extend? Or does it crumble the rookie contract up? There's weird shit with rookie contracts that doesn't apply to any others.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I could be wrong, but don't teams who want to extend have to accept the option and then extend? Or does it crumble the rookie contract up? There's weird shit with rookie contracts that doesn't apply to any others.

The teams do not need to accept the 5th year option to work out an extension. For example, BUF did not exercise the 5th year option with Allen but they obviously knew they would come to an agreement on the extension. Thus Allen’s extension started after his 4th year.

One thing I didn’t realize until recently is that a team can exercise the 5th year option and still come to an extension agreement with a player and the first year of that contract can replace the “5th” year.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The teams do not need to accept the 5th year option to work out an extension. For example, BUF did not exercise the 5th year option with Allen but they obviously knew they would come to an agreement on the extension. Thus Allen’s extension started after his 4th year.

One thing I didn’t realize until recently is that a team can exercise the 5th year option and still come to an extension agreement with a player and the first year of that contract can replace the “5th” year.

Alot of teams do this to extend the lower cap hit. Maholmes is a perfect example his extension leep hit cap hit 8 million the 1st 2 years then in years 3 snd 4 under 40 but next season his number is 57 million

 

[T1K]

Feels like most QB hits are extended before the 5th year option can be exercised these days tbh.

And usually it ends up being a mistake

 

[JTG]

The teams do not need to accept the 5th year option to work out an extension. For example, BUF did not exercise the 5th year option with Allen but they obviously knew they would come to an agreement on the extension. Thus Allen’s extension started after his 4th year.

One thing I didn’t realize until recently is that a team can exercise the 5th year option and still come to an extension agreement with a player and the first year of that contract can replace the “5th” year.

But can they not let the player also play out the 5th year and have the next contract kick in after? Didn't they do that with TJ? My brain is foggy.

 

[Peat]

And usually it ends up being a mistake

It does? I can't say I'm well versed in contracts around the league, but I felt like most of the guys who got their extensions settled before the end of their rookie contract lived up to it.

But can they not let the player also play out the 5th year and have the next contract kick in after? Didn't they do that with TJ? My brain is foggy.

Probably? Maybe?

I think the thing here is that the gigantic inflation in QB salaries means the difference between a 5th year option and the eventual contract is high enough that QBs are likely to sulk if asked to play on it where as even for a guy like Watt, it's a lot less of a deal. I think.

 

[JTG]

It does? I can't say I'm well versed in contracts around the league, but I felt like most of the guys who got their extensions settled before the end of their rookie contract lived up to it.



Probably? Maybe?

I think the thing here is that the gigantic inflation in QB salaries means the difference between a 5th year option and the eventual contract is high enough that QBs are likely to sulk if asked to play on it where as even for a guy like Watt, it's a lot less of a deal. I think.

By year 4, you know if you have a real one or not.

 

[T1K]

It does? I can't say I'm well versed in contracts around the league, but I felt like most of the guys who got their extensions settled before the end of their rookie contract lived up to it.



Probably? Maybe?

I think the thing here is that the gigantic inflation in QB salaries means the difference between a 5th year option and the eventual contract is high enough that QBs are likely to sulk if asked to play on it where as even for a guy like Watt, it's a lot less of a deal. I think.

Kyler is the main one that jumps to mind. Philly might have a little buyers remorse over Hurts the way this past season ended. Anyways, my point is that the 5th year gives them a lot more flexibility. More information leads to better decisions. That’s not to say I’d avoid drafting a QB in round 2, but I’m certainly less inclined to trade up for one.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

By year 4, you know if you have a real one or not.

Ya, after year three is generally the best rule IMHO from all the years I've followed the draft/Qbs.

A guy like Bradshaw is an outlier though.

Yinzers turned on him back in his early years, because he was a human turnover machine... had 73 picks vs a paltry 41 TDs in his first four years.

Even his fifth year when he won the SB, he was splitting time with Gilliam and had 7 TDs to 8 picks.

He never really hit his stride until Noll opened things up some in 78 when he was 30.

Would be interesting to see how much Yinzer nation would have bashed him through the first half of his career if social media was around back then.

 

[Peat]

Kyler is the main one that jumps to mind. Philly might have a little buyers remorse over Hurts the way this past season ended. Anyways, my point is that the 5th year gives them a lot more flexibility. More information leads to better decisions. That’s not to say I’d avoid drafting a QB in round 2, but I’m certainly less inclined to trade up for one.

You meant to say more inclined, not less inclined, right?

Hurts and Murray might end up good examples - although they might also pull through. But I feel like the other side of the field is taken up with guys like Mahomes, Allen, Burrow... I think Herbert extended early?

It is certainly nice to have that flexibility though. Just not sure it's a must have. And I think in terms of how to treat QBs, out of the many low percentage options out there, tying up big talents early works out better than most. I frame it that way because when you come down to it, the difficulty of playing QB means most ways of acquiring and keeping them don't work out very regularly.

 

[T1K]

You meant to say more inclined, not less inclined, right?

Hurts and Murray might end up good examples - although they might also pull through. But I feel like the other side of the field is taken up with guys like Mahomes, Allen, Burrow... I think Herbert extended early?

It is certainly nice to have that flexibility though. Just not sure it's a must have. And I think in terms of how to treat QBs, out of the many low percentage options out there, tying up big talents early works out better than most. I frame it that way because when you come down to it, the difficulty of playing QB means most ways of acquiring and keeping them don't work out very regularly.

Less inclined to trade up for one in round 2*

Mahomes and Allen are great. Herbert, idk he has no playoff wins in his career. While I’d certainly not turn my nose up at him, he hasn't been a home run either. Quite possibly one of the more overrated QBs in the league (the chargers are a dumpster fire though to be fair).

 

[JTG]

I would use a 1st round next year to get back up into the 2nd round to pick a C if there is one still there and we haven't taken one. Totally comfortable doing that. I think the top of the 2nd round you are going to see ridiculous players sitting there. If a C, CB, or RT is there, I'd send it.

Ya, after year three is generally the best rule IMHO from all the years I've followed the draft/Qbs.

A guy like Bradshaw is an outlier though.

Yinzers turned on him back in his early years, because he was a human turnover machine... had 73 picks vs a paltry 41 TDs in his first four years.

Even his fifth year when he won the SB, he was splitting time with Gilliam and had 7 TDs to 8 picks.

He never really hit his stride until Noll opened things up some in 78 when he was 30.

Would be interesting to see how much Yinzer nation would have bashed him through the first half of his career if social media was around back then.

Bradshaw wouldn't have lasted 2 years in the NFL today. Total lynch mob.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I would use a 1st round next year to get back up into the 2nd round to pick a C if there is one still there and we haven't taken one. Totally comfortable doing that.



Bradshaw wouldn't have lasted 2 years in the NFL today. Total lynch mob.

I’d be worried about them dealing a first because if KP has a bad year, they gotta look at finding his replacement in 25.

Definitely with you on the C though.

It has to be their top priority.

If there is a a stud RT sitting there grab him, but C is a gaping hole, literally.

 

[WickedWrister]

I mean we just spent a 1st round pick on a QB most teams probably had a 2nd round grade on... I'd love for someone to ask Arthur Smith that even though there's no chance he'd answer it truthfully lol.

I'm not writing his career off after 25 games, but at this point the team needs to be exploring alternative options beyond simply running it back with Pickett and Rudolph (if we even have him next year). Draft, Trade, FA.

I've mentioned this before but when Andy Weidl was in Philly, they spent a 2nd round pick on Jalen Hurts the year after giving Carson Wentz a 4 year $128m extension. The Steelers shouldn't be confused with a team that cares about analytics, but given how important the position is I don't get why teams don't draft more of them. We saw what like 15 teams lose their starting qb at some point this year?