OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[xlm34]

I really think this draft is outstanding. They can take this many different directions. I think the most valuable player would be Cooper Dejean if he is there at 20. He's a Brian Branch Swiss Army knife. Jeremiah compared him to Eric Weddle. I love the top 2 centers. The RT prospects are probably the most insanely large and talented I've ever see. Guys 6'6-6'7, 330-360 pounds running a 4.8-5.0 40 yard dash. Absurd.

It’s still early but it looks like this draft is shaping up really well to fit the Steelers needs.

There are tons of first round types of corners and tackles. I definitely don’t see them needing to trade up this year.

 

[xlm34]

Smith's offensive philosophy, more or less in his own words

The Big Book On Arthur Smith - Everything You Need To Know

Arthur Smith is the Pittsburgh Steelers’ newest offensive coordinator. And what a crucial year it is to get this offense sorted out. While results will ultimately tell whether or not Smith was the right hire, it’s important to know who the team is getting. The person and the coach. Overall...

steelersdepot.com

I liked the part about him saying it’s important to explain why they’re running certain plays. Before this year I would have assumed every coach did that, but after seeing some of the comments from former players about Canada apparently that’s not always the case.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Given where these IOL slot I feel like a move back with CAR for their 2&3 would be perfect. Steelers would essentially have 3 second round picks to pick up the IOL they want plus two other decent upside players.

Based on this chart the #20 value exactly matches #33 + #65.

2025 NFL Trade Value Chart

www.drafttek.com

Giving up the 5th year option is a decently big deal. Plus they are moving up a pretty good amount. My thought is that would have to be 2nd, 3rd and 3rd/4th 2025.

And depending who is there. I wouldn’t do it. I would much rather have Mims/Fuaga/Guyton/Dejean etc. And there is a chance that J P-J won’t be there at 33. The Dolphins, Texans, Cowboys and Eagles need IOL help including Center and the Eagles choose twice before the Steelers do at 51.

Basically, if the Steelers think that J P-J has all pro potential at C then don’t play games and just take him at 20. That being said. There was a lot talk about John Michael Schmitz last year and that he could slip into the 1st round and he didn’t get taken til 51.

Frazier's measurables are good except for his height which is not ideal, he is 6-2 5/8, but he has good arm length, weight and his hands are massive, 10 5/8". Biggest hands at the senior bowl. Plus he has a great demeanor, attitude and technique. So I would be excited to get him in the 2nd.

My dream draft would be a OT and C in the first two rounds.

And it seems like Tomlin and the scouting staff is in agreement as they have been keying in on the trenches at the Senior Bowl. There aren't many DL that have 1st-2nd round talent so I could see them waiting til the 3rd-4th round for DL.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Giving up the 5th year option is a decently big deal. Plus they are moving up a pretty good amount. My thought is that would have to be 2nd, 3rd and 3rd/4th 2025.

And depending who is there. I wouldn’t do it. I would much rather have Mims/Fuaga/Guyton/Dejean etc. And there is a chance that J P-J won’t be there at 33. The Dolphins, Texans, Cowboys and Eagles need IOL help including Center and the Eagles choose twice before the Steelers do at 51.

Basically, if the Steelers think that J P-J has all pro potential at C then don’t play games and just take him at 20. That being said. There was a lot talk about John Michael Schmitz last year and that he could slip into the 1st round and he didn’t get taken til 51.

Frazier's measurables are good except for his height which is not ideal, he is 6-2 5/8, but he has good arm length, weight and his hands are massive, 10 5/8". Biggest hands at the senior bowl. Plus he has a great demeanor, attitude and technique. So I would be excited to get him in the 2nd.

My dream draft would be a OT and C in the first two rounds.

And it seems like Tomlin and the scouting staff is in agreement as they have been keying in on the trenches at the Senior Bowl. There aren't many DL that have 1st-2nd round talent so I could see them waiting til the 3rd-4th round for DL.

Yep. I fully expect the FA money they spend to be on the defensive side Cb2 safety and a DL and draft 2 or 3 o line men this draft is a C OT SS Wr draft

 

[Peat]

I liked the part about him saying it’s important to explain why they’re running certain plays. Before this year I would have assumed every coach did that, but after seeing some of the comments from former players about Canada apparently that’s not always the case.

Stuff like that is why I'm happy saying Canada was exceptionally bad and not like other inept OCs.

The only defence I can think of is that he was working with a young offence and had to dumb things down... but at the same time, that makes explaining why all the more important. And he was hands off with Ben as an OC, and you don't need to dumb things down for him.

 

[WickedWrister]

Anyone coming around on Justin Fields with this OC yet? I’m telling ya, he’d be about the only guy who could theoretically raise this offenses upper limit without breaking the bank in terms of trade or draft capital.

Go all in on the rush attack. We could lead the league in that mark with him. No half measures. If it blows up, can always fall back to Kenny or Mason.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It's not a nepotism hire so I guess that is a plus, right?

His dad used to own the Skins. Dude is crazy plugged in.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Anyone coming around on Justin Fields with this OC yet? I’m telling ya, he’d be about the only guy who could theoretically raise this offenses upper limit without breaking the bank in terms of trade or draft capital.

Go all in on the rush attack. We could lead the league in that mark with him. No half measures. If it blows up, can always fall back to Kenny or Mason.

Are you picking up fields 5th year option otc has it at 25 million fully guaranteed

 

[Peat]

Anyone coming around on Justin Fields with this OC yet? I’m telling ya, he’d be about the only guy who could theoretically raise this offenses upper limit without breaking the bank in terms of trade or draft capital.

Go all in on the rush attack. We could lead the league in that mark with him. No half measures. If it blows up, can always fall back to Kenny or Mason.

That's the sort of thing that'd make me worry they wouldn't develop the passing game well enough though. I want balance, not Baltimore Ravens 2.

 

[Josey Wales]

Anyone coming around on Justin Fields with this OC yet? I’m telling ya, he’d be about the only guy who could theoretically raise this offenses upper limit without breaking the bank in terms of trade or draft capital.

Go all in on the rush attack. We could lead the league in that mark with him. No half measures. If it blows up, can always fall back to Kenny or Mason.

NO!!!!!!!!!! He sucked Big Hairy Donkey Balls

 

[T1K]

Anyone coming around on Justin Fields with this OC yet? I’m telling ya, he’d be about the only guy who could theoretically raise this offenses upper limit without breaking the bank in terms of trade or draft capital.

Go all in on the rush attack. We could lead the league in that mark with him. No half measures. If it blows up, can always fall back to Kenny or Mason.

Nope. I don’t think he’s worth the contract risk unless he came very cheap.

 

[WickedWrister]

Are you picking up fields 5th year option otc has it at 25 million fully guaranteed

Not at that price. But I don’t think we’d have to. Could sign a short term, incentive laden deal based on how many starts he got here. I believe he would only cost 6m this year if we didn’t pick up the 5th year option.

Smith has had a dual threat QB everywhere he’s been. Tannehill, Mariota, Ridder

 

[Josey Wales]

What New Steelers OC Arthur Smith Had To Say About Kenny Pickett In 2022

The Pittsburgh Steelers are putting QB Kenny Pickett and offensive coordinator Arthur Smith together this offseason. The latter is not even officially on the job yet. But their fates are now inextricably linked. Smith’s task is to get the most out of the former first-round pick. He should be...

steelersdepot.com

 

[Peat]

Not at that price. But I don’t think we’d have to. Could sign a short term, incentive laden deal based on how many starts he got here. I believe he would only cost 6m this year if we didn’t pick up the 5th year option.

Smith has had a dual threat QB everywhere he’s been. Tannehill, Mariota, Ridder

Pickett's a comparable 10-20 yard athlete to Mariota and Ridder. None of them are Fields, but there's no reason they can't use Pickett that way. Tbh, I'm always slightly surprised they weren't doing that to begin with.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Fields wasn't a high-end running QB until his second year in Chicago. Not saying he doesn't/didn't have the ability, but his big arm was his calling card, even more so than Mariota or Ridder, who both had more rush yards on average than Fields in their college careers.

Make of that what you (anyone) will. I personally don't see him as an upgrade on KP, acknowledging that there are things Fields does very well that Pickett does not. I mean, Fields is younger than Pickett, so whatever that's worth. I just wouldn't surrender assets for him. That said, I think both players suffer from poor coaching at the pro level.

I actually really like both players, also for what it's worth. I don't think Chicago should trade Fields (I admit this also has to do with my lack of faith in the QB class). I think the Bears, like the Steelers, should be trying to maximize their young QB (QBs, if we're including Rudolph in the Steelers discussion and I believe we should be) instead of replacing them.

Anyway, in the end I'm just not feeling Fields as a "go all in on the running game" kind of dude, despite his numbers the past couple seasons. Just coach up Kenny and Mason, and run the same offense you would have run if you'd have acquired Fields.

tl;dr - Don't trade for Fields.

 

[xlm34]

If Fields is cheap to acquire, and the Steelers are actually serious about a competition, I’d prefer him as the competitor over Rudolph/Minshew/Brissett.

He probably won’t be any good but I’d rather see them take a shot at a guy with some potential upside vs the journeyman starter/good backup type of quarterback.

They’ve been pretty clear about what they want for the QB room next year though

 

[MrBrightside]

I think people are really underestimating the likelihood that the QB room will be Pickett, Tannehill, and some random mid-round draft pick.

 

[Pens1566]

The thing with Fields is that at least he has the arm talent. You can't teach/coach that.

I'm not saying he's the answer, but I'd be interested if he's cheap-ish.

 

[Peat]

If Fields is cheap to acquire, and the Steelers are actually serious about a competition, I’d prefer him as the competitor over Rudolph/Minshew/Brissett.

He probably won’t be any good but I’d rather see them take a shot at a guy with some potential upside vs the journeyman starter/good backup type of quarterback.

They’ve been pretty clear about what they want for the QB room next year though

I don't see how the cost to acquire and retain Fields basically doesn't mandate him as the starter due to the sunk cost.

Which I'm potentially fine with. I'm not writing off the people who think Fields can be a talented passing QB. He has done more than Pickett with arguably less talent on the field.

But I think we should be clear what he is. He has done enough that someone will give him a chance to be a starter and if the Steelers don't want to be that team, the Steelers aren't getting him unless they're dumb.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think people are really underestimating the likelihood that the QB room will be Pickett, Tannehill, and some random mid-round draft pick.

Tannehill is cooked, I think. He's not competition for Pickett unless something really bad happens. That said, if Rudolph decides to go elsewhere, Tannehill as a backup, a guy familiar with the new coach, who could caretake the offense through a couple games if Pickett gets hurt...

It sounds bad but I think it's decent?

It's not a "shot" like a lot of us would like. It has the feel of a Plan B, and the Plan A wasn't so great to begin with. But it does feel like a chips-to-the-center-of-the-table situation on KP, and I'm probably one of only a small number of people for whom that'd be OK.

 

[WickedWrister]

Pickett's a comparable 10-20 yard athlete to Mariota and Ridder. None of them are Fields, but there's no reason they can't use Pickett that way. Tbh, I'm always slightly surprised they weren't doing that to begin with.

Ehhh disagree there. Mariota was one of the most prolific spread offense QB's in college history and while he didn't pan out as a pro, he was still pretty damn athletic back in his TEN days. Ran like 4.48. Even Ridder ran 4.5ish, a whole 2 tenths faster than Kenny. I don't get focusing on 10 yard splits to make Kenny look more athletic when its obvious he's not really a dynamic athlete. Enough speed to sometimes evade the initial rush and get to the sideline but that's about it. He has a comparable yards per attempt to Mac Jones lol.

Fields wasn't a high-end running QB until his second year in Chicago. Not saying he doesn't/didn't have the ability, but his big arm was his calling card, even more so than Mariota or Ridder, who both had more rush yards on average than Fields in their college careers.

Make of that what you (anyone) will. I personally don't see him as an upgrade on KP, acknowledging that there are things Fields does very well that Pickett does not. I mean, Fields is younger than Pickett, so whatever that's worth. I just wouldn't surrender assets for him. That said, I think both players suffer from poor coaching at the pro level.

I actually really like both players, also for what it's worth. I don't think Chicago should trade Fields (I admit this also has to do with my lack of faith in the QB class). I think the Bears, like the Steelers, should be trying to maximize their young QB (QBs, if we're including Rudolph in the Steelers discussion and I believe we should be) instead of replacing them.

Anyway, in the end I'm just not feeling Fields as a "go all in on the running game" kind of dude, despite his numbers the past couple seasons. Just coach up Kenny and Mason, and run the same offense you would have run if you'd have acquired Fields.

tl;dr - Don't trade for Fields.

Re: the college rushing yards comparison - I think that's mainly scheme based. As mentioned Mariota was a Chip Kelly spread QB, and Ridder ran the most gimmicky RPO offense I've ever seen in my life at Cincinnati. At OSU, Fields ran a more pro style deep passing attack. That's what's exciting about him. That he has legit arm talent + game breaking 4.4 speed. The problem is he just takes sacks at a near historic rate haha.

And I think it's almost a foregone conclusion at this point that Chicago is going to be trading Fields and draft Caleb Williams.

I'm not saying we cater our whole offense to Fields, a guy I think we could get for like a third round pick. I'm just saying we actually practice what we preach for once, competition. And now I actually think this scenario is sort of plausible with Arthur Smith as OC.

 

[T1K]

Tannehill is cooked, I think. He's not competition for Pickett unless something really bad happens. That said, if Rudolph decides to go elsewhere, Tannehill as a backup, a guy familiar with the new coach, who could caretake the offense through a couple games if Pickett gets hurt...

It sounds bad but I think it's decent?

It's not a "shot" like a lot of us would like. It has the feel of a Plan B, and the Plan A wasn't so great to begin with. But it does feel like a chips-to-the-center-of-the-table situation on KP, and I'm probably one of only a small number of people for whom that'd be OK.

Tanny isn’t someone I’m very hyped about, but stylistically he plays a similar game as Pickett. I think he would make a lot of sense as the backup. If he somehow beats out Pickett in camp, that’s fine too.

 

[Peat]

Ehhh disagree there. Mariota was one of the most prolific spread offense QB's in college history and while he didn't pan out as a pro, he was still pretty damn athletic back in his TEN days. Ran like 4.48. Even Ridder ran 4.5ish, a whole 2 tenths faster than Kenny. I don't get focusing on 10 yard splits to make Kenny look more athletic when its obvious he's not really a dynamic athlete. Enough speed to sometimes evade the initial rush and get to the sideline but that's about it. He has a comparable yards per attempt to Mac Jones lol.

How do you measure obvious athleticism?

Because the combine scores say that Pickett is very fast for a QB over 10 yards and plenty fast over 20. It's only over 40 there's questions.

And yeah, that doesn't translate on the pitch so far... but why? What about Pickett means we think he's incapable of fulfilling his measured athleticism on a football field if actually put in a position to do so? It's not like the very athletic Fields was an instant rushing success until Chicago decided to focus on that.

Pickett is straight up quicker over 20 than both Hurts and Allen, 3rd and 4th in rushing yards last year. Dobbs was 5th... and Pickett is faster than him over 20 too.

Yeah, he lacks 40 yard long speed... how often does that come up for a QB?

Pickett should be able to rush successfully. If he can't, there is either a huge problem with him that should be exposed so we can be done, or there is a huge problem with his coaching, and we know those existed.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Re: the college rushing yards comparison - I think that's mainly scheme based.

Heard that. Don't dispute it. I acknowledged Fields' ability in my post. It's just funny to me the idea that he's a guy you'd be going "all-in" on in the running game.

 

[xlm34]

I don't see how the cost to acquire and retain Fields basically doesn't mandate him as the starter due to the sunk cost.

Which I'm potentially fine with. I'm not writing off the people who think Fields can be a talented passing QB. He has done more than Pickett with arguably less talent on the field.

But I think we should be clear what he is. He has done enough that someone will give him a chance to be a starter and if the Steelers don't want to be that team, the Steelers aren't getting him unless they're dumb.

Yeah with the Steelers situation the only trade scenario for Fields I’d be interested in would be a day 3 pick this year plus a conditional day 3 pick in ‘25 that could become a second if Fields starts x% of the games and they make the divisional round or something like that. Some team will easily beat that though.

I don’t think they truly have much of an intention of anyone but Pickett being the starter next year though.