OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[Peat]

As I said in a different post, there's more to an offense succeeding than play calling.

There's more going into it, but it's enough to cause an offence to fail all on its own.

Also I'm going to assume Smith had a loud voice in drawing up the scheme too unless I hear different.

That's not his job here, so who cares?

a) I suppose that's a fair point (to a point) as to evaluating his Atlanta offence and what it means here, but...
b) There's a very good chance we'll be picking a new QB while he's here, and as OC he will probably have a voice
c) It doesn't bode well for him being the guy who identifies how to get his QBs to succeed

The players are always the most important, but why does everyone focus on Henry and then ignore Tannehill?

Tannehill's QB rating with Miami was 87.0.
With Smith as his OC it was 110.6.
After Smith left, it was 88.7.

Must just be a coincidence, I guess.

And this, of course, bodes better.

But at best - this is a mixed record when including Atlanta and I still see no reason to exclude what he did there.

And it's a record that can be spun positively and negatively. I hope the smarter guys in the media dig deep and start answering some questions on that, because I don't find the positive spin convincing enough to be happy.

 

[WickedWrister]

Yet he wasn't able to repeat it the minute that Smith left despite still having Henry.

TBF Henry got hurt and turned 27 the year after which is a notorious age cliff for RB's

 

[pistolpete11]

There's more going into it, but it's enough to cause an offence to fail all on its own.

Also I'm going to assume Smith had a loud voice in drawing up the scheme too unless I hear different.

Quality of the players (particularly the QB and O-line) don't matter?

a) I suppose that's a fair point (to a point) as to evaluating his Atlanta offence and what it means here, but...
b) There's a very good chance we'll be picking a new QB while he's here, and as OC he will probably have a voice
c) It doesn't bode well for him being the guy who identifies how to get his QBs to succeed

b) He'll have a voice, but it will be much more Khan and Tomlin (edit: and maybe Rooney above all).
c) It did for Tannehill and it's entirely possible that 36-year-old Matt Ryan (who was already declining before Smith got there), Mariota, Heinicke, and Ridder just aren't very good. To your point before, Belichick looks like a genius when he has Brady and a moron when he has Mac Jones.

And this, of course, bodes better.

But at best - this is a mixed record when including Atlanta and I still see no reason to exclude what he did there.

And it's a record that can be spun positively and negatively. I hope the smarter guys in the media dig deep and start answering some questions on that, because I don't find the positive spin convincing enough to be happy.

To the above points, he didn't have a QB in Atlanta. He might not have them in Pittsburgh either, but this hire should tell us one way or another.

 

[pistolpete11]

TBF Henry got hurt and turned 27 the year after which is a notorious age cliff for RB's

His QBR was 90.2 before Henry got hurt and Henry had 937 yards in those 8 games and had 1,500 the next year (though his Y/C dropped from 5.0+ to more standard 4.3-4.4).

Hard for me to take seriously it's because Henry suddenly fell off.

 

[Peat]

Quality of the players (particularly the QB and O-line) don't matter?

Sufficiently stupid play calling can neuter anyone, yes, although it's very rare to see it in the NFL on a team wide basis.

Just like sufficiently bad players can neuter a scheme (and probably quicker).

I would be interested in seeing analysis on the usage of the Falcons' young guns in Pitts/Robinson/London and why things didn't work out for them, because something there smells wrong.

b) He'll have a voice, but it will be much more Khan and Tomlin.
c) It did for Tannehill and it's entirely possible that 36-year-old Matt Ryan (who was already declining before Smith got there), Mariota, Heinicke, and Ridder just aren't very good. To your point before, Belichick looks like a genius when he has Brady and a moron when he has Mac Jones.

To the above points, he didn't have a QB in Atlanta. He might not have them in Pittsburgh either, but this hire should tell us one way or another.

b) True, but the more good voices the better
c) It's likely they weren't very good, but at the same time, it's also quite possible the main thing elevating Tannehill was Henry. And if that's the case, we've got an OC who can't elevate a QB through coaching and scheme, which is not ideal. And that's something that needs to be answered by the video rather than the stats.

Also Belichick looked like a genius with Jones in his first year until he hired Patricia as OC!

 

[Captain Hook]

I like that Smith has gotten more out of a lesser QB in the past with Tannehill. He'll certainly have to do that here in the short term. I'll like the hire even more If he can lure Munchack back here.

I can see Smith's run heavy approach fitting well with Andy Weidle's strategy of building through the trenches. I was kind of hoping for a more innovative hire though. This feels like a more competent version of Matt Canada and not really a game changer. Hopefully I'm wrong. We should be able to keep him for a few years since he just failed as a HC and likely won't get another opportunity at that for a while.

 

[pistolpete11]

Sufficiently stupid play calling can neuter anyone, yes, although it's very rare to see it in the NFL on a team wide basis.

Just like sufficiently bad players can neuter a scheme (and probably quicker).

I would be interested in seeing analysis on the usage of the Falcons' young guns in Pitts/Robinson/London and why things didn't work out for them, because something there smells wrong.

Switching teams seems like a much more likely cause than him being a good play caller for 2 years to all of a sudden a shitty play caller.

b) True, but the more good voices the better
c) It's likely they weren't very good, but at the same time, it's also quite possible the main thing elevating Tannehill was Henry. And if that's the case, we've got an OC who can't elevate a QB through coaching and scheme, which is not ideal. And that's something that needs to be answered by the video rather than the stats.

Also Belichick looked like a genius with Jones in his first year until he hired Patricia as OC!

b) Eh, I guess, but I also wouldn't necessarily say that he can't evaluate QB. Sometimes you are just the victim of circumstance. What QB's were available to him that he chose Mariota/Heinicke/Ridder over? And at least he had enough sense to wait until the 3rd round to take Ridder unlike the Steelers taking Pickett in the 1st.
c) Tannehill's play dropped immediately after Smith left and Henry was still there. Too big of a coincidence for me to believe that Smith didn't factor in.

 

[JTG]

This is probably one of my bigger concerns with Smith. He seemingly runs what he runs even if it isn’t working.

If I had to outline my main concern, it would be exactly this. It's the same "head meet wall" way of running an offense.

We will see. I think his offense in Tennessee was much more elite RB/OL than anything else.

 

[Peat]

Switching teams seems like a much more likely cause than him being a good play caller for 2 years to all of a sudden a shitty play caller.

I would say that most likely he is a competent NFL play caller who, like all of them, has strengths and weaknesses that will make him look a lot better or a lot worse depending on who he has to work with.

b) Eh, I guess, but I also wouldn't necessarily say that he can't evaluate QB. Sometimes you are just the victim of circumstance. What QB's were available to him that he chose Mariota/Heinicke/Ridder over?
c) Tannehill's play dropped immediately after Smith left and Henry was still there. Too big of a coincidence for me to believe that Smith didn't factor in.

b) I have no idea what the QB FA market looked like in 2022 and even I'm not sad enough to look that up. Ridder, rough draft, could argue they should have waited and got Howell. Could argue he could have been more with better development.

c) Henry's play dropped a lot. A whole yard less per attempt. Which is probably partly missing Smith as well as partly hitting the age wall...

... but is Tannehill playing worse about missing super-elite Henry, or missing Smith?

And again, I think that's a question to be answered with video. Do you know what the Titans' preferred passing concepts were back then? I don't. I don't know what they did on games Henry wasn't going, what they did on third and long and on two minute drills and the rest of it.

Yeah, the stats say Smith isn't the touch of death to his QBs and I'm happy to believe that. But more than that, I think people need to dig deeper.


In any case, I don't think Smith is a bum. I don't think Smith is a bad OC who was only propped up by Henry. I don't think he's the next Canada. I think he's probably going to get good results.

I just don't know he's the guy who's going to absolutely get the most out of who he's playing and elevate games. Not with the Atlanta games on the record too, and not with Henry being so damn freakish.

 

[WickedWrister]

Steelers are pretty transparent with their offseason moves, I don't think its a huge leap to think this OC hire strengthens the "build the trenches" narrative. Conventional wisdom says you do this before drafting a 1st round RB though, otherwise you're wasting their prime years.

 

[xlm34]

This dropped in the middle of the Arthur Smith news, but Jeremiah is to me the best in the business for draft news. He’s usually pretty ahead of the game when it comes to ranking these prospects.

Wouldn’t surprise me if we start to see Powers-Johnson slide into the round 1 conversation at some point.

 

[WickedWrister]

This dropped in the middle of the Arthur Smith news, but Jeremiah is to me the best in the business for draft news. He’s usually pretty ahead of the game when it comes to ranking these prospects.

Wouldn’t surprise me if we start to see Powers-Johnson slide into the round 1 conversation at some point.

Zach Frazier the WVU Center another name to look out for. Seems like a lot of OL and WR talent in this draft.

 

[Andy99]

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/paul-zeise/2024/01/30/definition-of-insanity-is-the-pittsburgh-steelers-arthur-smith-tomlin/stories/202401290092

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Better than Canada was a given. Better than the other candidates they interviewed isn't the best reason to like a hire. But here we are.

 

[JTG]

This dropped in the middle of the Arthur Smith news, but Jeremiah is to me the best in the business for draft news. He’s usually pretty ahead of the game when it comes to ranking these prospects.

Wouldn’t surprise me if we start to see Powers-Johnson slide into the round 1 conversation at some point.

Zach Frazier the WVU Center another name to look out for. Seems like a lot of OL and WR talent in this draft.

We need one of these two guys. The Combine will be huge for both. Johnson needs to show athleticism and Frazier needs to have some solid measurables. If we can land Fuaga/Latham/Mims and JPJ/Frazier, this line will be the best in the NFL very quickly, and they will all be fairly young aside from Seumalo.

 

[Peat]

Better than Canada was a given. Better than the other candidates they interviewed isn't the best reason to like a hire. But here we are.

This is a point I'm mulling over. They interviewed, what, 4 guys? Robinson, the Texans QB coach, the Carolina OC, and Smith?

And then made the decision about... 2 days? After the interview.

It feels like there's a story there. Was Smith always the first choice? Were there other guys they wanted to interview saying no?

Right now, the biggest story about the Steelers is they just feel throwback and inefficient. They have a confidence in their methods that doesn't match recent results. Smith, whoever he really is, fits into that narrative.

So how did they get there?

 

[Josey Wales]

Pat McAfee: 'Pittsburgh Is Going To Love Artie Smith'

New Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Arthur Smith has been a friend of the Pat McAfee Show. It just so happened that the show was live Tuesday afternoon when the news broke that the Steelers are hiring Smith. “I think he’s going to love being in Pittsburgh,” McAfee said. “I think...

steelersdepot.com

 

[JTG]

 

[Peat]

Incidentally, one of the things I find both fascinating and offputting about the NFL is how they've changed the game to the point where bringing in one of the league's rushing OCs to work with some of the league's best rushing elements is disappointing. Harris could get over 5 yards per carry next season but that's just not enough when the rules tilt the field towards the passing offence so much.

A league where one style rules them all is, ultimately, a problem.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

4th in play action attempts and 6th in yards with Ridder in Atlanta that’s a start. He hates shotgun snaps

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[Peat]

Whatshisface the Lions OC told teams he's staying. Now there's a surprise.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

4th in play action attempts and 6th in yards with Ridder in Atlanta that’s a start. He hates shotgun snaps

Good. I hate running shotgun on short yardage downs. Especially when they would run those stupid pitch plays that always got blown up behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[Peat]

 

[Smoke]

It's not a nepotism hire so I guess that is a plus, right?