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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

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McCarthy going #8 to ATL
 
WickedWrister said:

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McCarthy going #8 to ATL
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I feel like this is the part of the draft process where everyone gets a little overexcited by how much teams like QBs and how teams are going to swing big on getting their help.

Then give it a couple of months for teams to obsess over flaws and work out what other talent they really love, and we get closer to reality.

I wouldn't be surprised if McCarthy goes before 15 tho.
 
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Peat said:
I feel like this is the part of the draft process where everyone gets a little overexcited by how much teams like QBs and how teams are going to swing big on getting their help.

Then give it a couple of months for teams to obsess over flaws and work out what other talent they really love, and we get closer to reality.

I wouldn't be surprised if McCarthy goes before 15 tho.
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He’s got good physical traits and evaluators like how he sees the field. I’ve seen some tweets that have him as high as QB2 in this class.

Combined with the early perception of 2025 being weak at QB, I don’t think it’s crazy that mock has him 8th. MIN and DEN at 11 and 12 also in play if they let their veteran QB’s walk.
 
If we assume that’s not total BS from Johnson, Wilson’s ego is way too big to compete for a starting job or be a backup I think. He’d be the cheapest option if they’re looking for a new starter, but also probably one of my least favorite options.

Everything I’ve read about him is that he sucks even though his numbers last season were decent.
 
xlm34 said:
If we assume that’s not total BS from Johnson, Wilson’s ego is way too big to compete for a starting job or be a backup I think. He’d be the cheapest option if they’re looking for a new starter, but also probably one of my least favorite options.

Everything I’ve read about him is that he sucks even though his numbers last season were decent.
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If he's not willing to sign for that kind of role, he's probably not going to end up signing anywhere.

The only teams where Wilson makes sense as a starter are win-now teams, since bad teams who need QBs will just draft a new QB. There really aren't many options out there if he wants to be an undisputed starter.
 
I'm going to cvnt punt the next fool who suggests Justin Fields should come to Pittsburgh. The guy is the worst stating QB in the league. He has no timing. He can't read a defense AT ALL. He lacks the most fundamental skills to be a pro QB. He'd need years of tutelage under a QBing genius just to be decent.
 
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WickedWrister said:
He’s got good physical traits and evaluators like how he sees the field. I’ve seen some tweets that have him as high as QB2 in this class.

Combined with the early perception of 2025 being weak at QB, I don’t think it’s crazy that mock has him 8th. MIN and DEN at 11 and 12 also in play if they let their veteran QB’s walk.
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It's not crazy but I'd expect his stock to fall a little. That row of teams who need a QB in MIN/DEN/LVR is where I think I see him. ATL? I dunno. Wouldn't be super surprised.

Empoleon8771 said:
If he's not willing to sign for that kind of role, he's probably not going to end up signing anywhere.

The only teams where Wilson makes sense as a starter are win-now teams, since bad teams who need QBs will just draft a new QB. There really aren't many options out there if he wants to be an undisputed starter.
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I'm kinda fascinated to see how this one plays out. Statistically, if teams are willing to give big money to the Derek Carrs of this world, Wilson should find a home. I feel like there are a few teams who potentially need QBs who think they can make some noise now and might fancy him. Yeah, there's a chance his stats don't reflect the reality and that he's declining fast, but there's risk on every guy.

But in terms of personality... you've got to think there's someone in every front office going "he's been run out of town twice in two years, he's got a well known ego, he's not worth the drama" right?

Like I could believe that what happens is Atlanta say "we want a two year veteran QB to make the most out of all these young guns on offence we've got and he'll be backed up by Ridder who maybe turns into the next Love". But is Wilson the guy you want leading a young room? That's part of it for me here. Guys like Pickens, Jones, Muth whoever they pick this year... they could be here 5-10 years. You want them to hit their ceiling? You want to establish a new Steelers mentality? Wilson doesn't seem to be that guy. Is he good enough to look past that?

Right now I assume some team will make him a starter because that's what the NFL does but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if come the start of the season nobody wanted him. It doesn't take that much. We've already established the starters to teams ratio is really close to 1:1.

I would add if that's the situation, sitting at home and waiting for that big injury makes more sense than signing somewhere.
 
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xlm34 said:
If we assume that’s not total BS from Johnson, Wilson’s ego is way too big to compete for a starting job or be a backup I think. He’d be the cheapest option if they’re looking for a new starter, but also probably one of my least favorite options.

Everything I’ve read about him is that he sucks even though his numbers last season were decent.
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Yea there is definitely some smoke about this dude. I've read things from his ego and entourage being too influential to that he doesn't take football as seriously as he once did.

But if I trust anyone to manage a guy like this, it's Mike Tomlin. He's got such a great track record of dealing with abject morons. Pause at the 1:20 mark if you want to see a clown dance

 
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DanielPlainview said:
I'm going to cvnt punt the next fool who suggests Justin Fields should come to Pittsburgh. The guy is the worst stating QB in the league. He has no timing. He can't read a defense AT ALL. He lacks the most fundamental skills to be a pro QB. He'd need years of tutelage under a QBing genius just to be decent.
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Justin Fields should come to Pittsburgh. "Worst starting QB in the league" is hyperbole and a more appropriate description of Kenny Pickett than Fields.
 
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I know lies, damn lies, and statistics, but I think the case for Pickett and Fields being pretty neck and neck in their race for worst starting QB in the league is pretty strong. With the case for each guy being "how much do you think they can improve in a real offence/how bad do you think their offence was last year".
 
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Peat said:





I know lies, damn lies, and statistics, but I think the case for Pickett and Fields being pretty neck and neck in their race for worst starting QB in the league is pretty strong. With the case for each guy being "how much do you think they can improve in a real offence/how bad do you think their offence was last year".
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Yeah, I'm going to immediately question a graphic that has TLaw as the 3rd best QB in the league and has Kyler Murray below Josh Dobbs and Tyrod Taylor lol.

Just going by 2023 QBR (not saying this is a better metric), the only QB's worse than Pickett were Mac Jones, Bryce Young, and Zach Wilson. Wilson was supposed to be the backup and Mac Jones is likely getting replaced this year. I'd take Young over Pickett simply due to pedigree.

I honestly think it's between Pickett, Levis, and Ridder going into 2024 assuming the Falcons don't take a QB.

EDIT: Just saw the first graphic has the MVP of the league as QB18 :laugh:
 
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Shrimper said:
I'd be okay with signing Wilson on a "prove it" deal. He should not be getting big bucks
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I think Wilson is an upgrade over what we have in-house but he looked visibly slower to me on the few occasions I caught Denver this year. I just don't think a 35 year old QB that relied on his ability to extend plays is going to age gracefully. Assuming Denver actually does bite the bullet and release him since nobody is touching that contract. I don't know, I still don't see him signing for like the vet min. Total conjecture but I couldn't see him taking less than 10-15m per at which point I'd rather spend like 20m more and get Kirk.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
If he's not willing to sign for that kind of role, he's probably not going to end up signing anywhere.

The only teams where Wilson makes sense as a starter are win-now teams, since bad teams who need QBs will just draft a new QB. There really aren't many options out there if he wants to be an undisputed starter.
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I could see Atlanta or maybe even the Patriots if they pass on QB pretty much handing him a starting job.

If he is willing to come in as a potential backup, given the fact that he could take a vet minimum deal he becomes way more interesting. Although personality would still be a really weird fit though.
 
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WickedWrister said:
Yeah, I'm going to immediately question a graphic that has TLaw as the 3rd best QB in the league and has Kyler Murray below Josh Dobbs and Tyrod Taylor lol.

Just going by 2023 QBR (not saying this is a better metric), the only QB's worse than Pickett were Mac Jones, Bryce Young, and Zach Wilson. Wilson was supposed to be the backup and Mac Jones is likely getting replaced this year. I'd take Young over Pickett simply due to pedigree.

I honestly think it's between Pickett, Levis, and Ridder going into 2024 assuming the Falcons don't take a QB.
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QBR is putting what the team does onto the QB's card though. Guy drops a TD pass? Too bad. Guy turns a 10 yard chunk play into an 80 yard TD? Great work you stud!

So adjusted EPA, which starts stripping that stuff out to focus just on the plays the player makes, makes more sense to me.

Would I put complete faith in it? No.

But I can buy Lawrence having a far better QB performance than his results given all the questions about the calls and talent around him. And saying Dobbs and Taylor had better performance than Murray last season is backed up by QBR so I don't know it should be that surprising.

And Pickett being roughly equivalent to Fields? I already buy that, so of course I buy it here. All you really have to believe for that is that the Steelers' scheme, opposition and personnel held Pickett back a significant degree more than the Bears. Given that the Bears encouraged Fields to throw like a real QB and the Steelers under Canada seemed hellbent on avoiding this with Pickett, this seems plausible. The Bears didn't exactly help Fields a ton, but I trust the stat saying that only the Giants and Panthers shot their QB in the foot more than the Steelers.
 
Peat said:
I know lies, damn lies, and statistics, but I think the case for Pickett and Fields being pretty neck and neck in their race for worst starting QB in the league is pretty strong. With the case for each guy being "how much do you think they can improve in a real offence/how bad do you think their offence was last year".
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Doesn't even have to be neck and neck for worst QB in the league, just being neck and neck suggests a lack of motivation to send away assets to acquire Fields.
 
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Peat said:
QBR is putting what the team does onto the QB's card though. Guy drops a TD pass? Too bad. Guy turns a 10 yard chunk play into an 80 yard TD? Great work you stud!

So adjusted EPA, which starts stripping that stuff out to focus just on the plays the player makes, makes more sense to me.

Would I put complete faith in it? No.

But I can buy Lawrence having a far better QB performance than his results given all the questions about the calls and talent around him. And saying Dobbs and Taylor had better performance than Murray last season is backed up by QBR so I don't know it should be that surprising.

And Pickett being roughly equivalent to Fields? I already buy that, so of course I buy it here. All you really have to believe for that is that the Steelers' scheme, opposition and personnel held Pickett back a significant degree more than the Bears. Given that the Bears encouraged Fields to throw like a real QB and the Steelers under Canada seemed hellbent on avoiding this with Pickett, this seems plausible. The Bears didn't exactly help Fields a ton, but I trust the stat saying that only the Giants and Panthers shot their QB in the foot more than the Steelers.
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I mean even using adjusted EPA per play, Pickett is 21st out of 22 QB's (Filtering 2022-2023 and set the minimum number of plays to what Pickett has).

Fields is 20th :laugh:
 
WickedWrister said:
I mean even using adjusted EPA per play, Pickett is 21st out of 22 QB's (Filtering 2022-2023 and set the minimum number of plays to what Pickett has).

Fields is 20th :laugh:
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Where did you find that?

In any case I'm sure there's a few starters between those two guys and the bottom that don't get counted. But they're way too close. A lot of that's being on shitty offensive teams, but a lot of it isn't.
 
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