OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Thats why you do what the chargers did Allen cap hit is 21 million and Mile Williams is 19 million but have Herbert on a rookie deal
Both Godwin and Evans have cap hits over 23 million next year.
Cincinnati is going to have to pay Burrow Chase and Higgins soon having the boyd 3/30 deal end helps when Higgins is up next off season


He is currently working with the 24 rated Qb in passing ypa and last year he had the worst non rookie at Qb.

Maybe the QBs throwing to him have poor stats because he’s their top receiver.

Kind of hard to rack up good numbers when when your top guy ranks 83rd in the league for YAC and doesn’t score TDs.

He has almost 200 catches the last two years, so he’s being given plenty of opportunities to do something after the catch (besides run backwards).

Again, what is the last clutch play he made?

He had a huge chance last game to make a big time catch at a critical point and suddenly developed two left feet.

 

[Flying Dego]

Maybe the QBs throwing to him have poor stats because he’s their top receiver.

A guy who ranks 83rd in the league for YAC and doesn’t score TDs isn’t helping his QBs.

He has almost 200 catches the last two years, so he’s being given plenty of opportunities to do something after the catch (besides run backwards).

Again, what is the last clutch play he made?

He had a huge chance last game to make a big time catch at a critical point and suddenly developed two left feet.

I think some people see his crisp routes and get entranced. I dunno I can't explain why so many fans are comfortable with him being our target leader. It makes very little sense to me.

He does nothing to break a game open or be clutch in general. I am 100% in the boat of move on and retool the position. He can go catch 5 yard routes for Brady.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Hes statistically on of the most open WR in the NFL. If that doesnt scream QB issue i don know what does.

Yeah he has his warts, he drops to many balls. Not great at combat catches. Etc

But you put his with a herbert or mahomes or even a prescott his numbers are considerably better

 

[Flying Dego]

Hes statistically on of the most open WR in the NFL. If that doesnt scream QB issue i don know what does.

Yeah he has his warts, he drops to many balls. Not great at combat catches. Etc

But you put his with a herbert or mahomes or even a prescott his numbers are considerably better

I vote we let him go just like JuJu and Claypool and see how awesome 'the most open wr' can be.

Having a better QB and system might help him on volume but will it fix his faults? No he'll never be a game breaker with good hands.

Take Mahomes for example. Put him on the Chiefs and he's not getting the volume. He's also not stretching the field. He probably gets less. Herbert? He's probably the #3 at best there.

All I'm saying is fans here put too much credit on him. He's nothing we'd be missing when he's done here.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Our offense doesn’t try to stretch the field. It’s less a personnel issue and more of an offense issue.

The QB throws for 200 yards a game at best and rarely throws downfield. Hard to scream about WR production when that’s the scheme they are working with.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hes statistically on of the most open WR in the NFL. If that doesnt scream QB issue i don know what does.

Yeah he has his warts, he drops to many balls. Not great at combat catches. Etc

But you put his with a herbert or mahomes or even a prescott his numbers are considerably better

This isn't the argument you think it is.

Johnson being the most open WR in the league while having shit YAC and YPR is a criticism of Johnson. He's getting catches when he's open and he's doing nothing with them after catching the ball. That's not a criticism of the QB, that's a criticism of Johnson.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hes statistically on of the most open WR in the NFL. If that doesnt scream QB issue i don know what does.

Yeah he has his warts, he drops to many balls. Not great at combat catches. Etc

But you put his with a herbert or mahomes or even a prescott his numbers are considerably better

Not sure how it’s a QB issue when he will have almost 200 rcpt the last two years.

He’s getting the ball in his hands and then does nothing with it.

When is the last time he juked a guy or broke a tackle and got a big gainer?

There is a reason he has a paltry 10 YPC and ranks 83rd in YAC.

By the same token, KP numbers would look way better if he was throwing to an explosive guy like Diggs or Hill instead of DJ.

And ya Canada isn’t helping the situation, but he’s not telling DJ to come up small in big moments, drop passes and do zilch when he catches the ball.

Canada has gotten the ball in his hands way more than enough - do something with it.

 

[xlm34]

Study: Diontae Johnson Has Every Right To Be Frustrated With His Usage This Season - Steelers Depot

It’s from November so things may have changed, but it’s a pretty good article about DJ’s usage being a pretty big reason why he’s seen a dip in his stats.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you want to look at Johnson's results with a good QB, why don't we go back to the 2020 season? 2020 Ben wasn't prime Ben of course, but a 33-10 TD-INT ratio with throwing for 3800 yards doesn't seem all that bad to me. In 2020, Johnson had 923 yards on 88 receptions, for a Y/R of 10.5. His YAC was 394 yards for a total YAC/R of 4.5 yards per reception. That's 84th in the NFL.

It's the same story last year. Johnson had 527 YAC for a total YAC/R of 4.9 yards per reception. That was 69th last year. Johnson's YAC this year is especially bad, which I think can partially be explained with Pickett and Canada, but he was never a good YAC player to begin with. Even if you don't look at stats from this year, Johnson's career numbers show that he's really good at getting open but does pretty much nothing with the ball once he has it.

Now combine that with his drop problems and I think it's really easy to see why people have soured on Johnson. If he just didn't have those drop issues, I wouldn't have an issue with the YAC issue. But having both drop issues and also not doing anything with the ball is a bad combination.

 

[Flying Dego]

If you want to look at Johnson's results with a good QB, why don't we go back to the 2020 season? 2020 Ben wasn't prime Ben of course, but a 33-10 TD-INT ratio with throwing for 3800 yards doesn't seem all that bad to me. In 2020, Johnson had 923 yards on 88 receptions, for a Y/R of 10.5. His YAC was 394 yards for a total YAC/R of 4.5 yards per reception. That's 84th in the NFL.

It's the same story last year. Johnson had 527 YAC for a total YAC/R of 4.9 yards per reception. That was 69th last year. Johnson's YAC this year is especially bad, which I think can partially be explained with Pickett and Canada, but he was never a good YAC player to begin with. Even if you don't look at stats from this year, Johnson's career numbers show that he's really good at getting open but does pretty much nothing with the ball once he has it.

Now combine that with his drop problems and I think it's really easy to see why people have soured on Johnson. If he just didn't have those drop issues, I wouldn't have an issue with the YAC issue. But having both drop issues and also not doing anything with the ball is a bad combination.

All that tells the tape on DJ. I mean if we're honest what team is he the #1 on?

He'd be lucky to be #2 and probably a #3 slot guy on most teams.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

This isn't the argument you think it is.

Johnson being the most open WR in the league while having shit YAC and YPR is a criticism of Johnson. He's getting catches when he's open and he's doing nothing with them after catching the ball. That's not a criticism of the QB, that's a criticism of Johnson.

Or maybe the route tree and ball placement. Hard to get YAC on comebacks to the boundry.

He does his job which is to get open. Its the offensive gameplan and QBs job to do the rest.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Or maybe the route tree and ball placement. Hard to get YAC on comebacks to the boundry.

He does his job which is to get open. Its the offensive gameplan and QBs job to do the rest.

He's been a bad YAC player literally his entire career.

This year is especially bad, and I agree that is mostly on Pickett and Canada. But Johnson in his entire career has not been a good YAC player. He's not good once he has the ball, he's just really good at getting open. If he didn't have such issues with drops, I wouldn't really care about that, but he does have dropping issues.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Not sure how it’s a QB issue when he will have almost 200 rcpt the last two years.

He’s getting the ball in his hands and then does nothing with it.

When is the last time he juked a guy or broke a tackle and got a big gainer?

There is a reason he has a paltry 10 YPC and ranks 83rd in YAC.

By the same token, KP numbers would look way better if he was throwing to an explosive guy like Diggs or Hill instead of DJ.

And ya Canada isn’t helping the situation, but he’s not telling DJ to come up small in big moments, drop passes and do zilch when he catches the ball.

Canada has gotten the ball in his hands way more than enough - do something with it.

Sure hes not the greatest YAC reciever. But theres only so mich you can do with comebacks and shallow crossers.

Again he a wr with his warts but if you want to see yac hit him on a skinny post once in a while not a 5 yard curl.

 

[xlm34]

If you want to look at Johnson's results with a good QB, why don't we go back to the 2020 season? 2020 Ben wasn't prime Ben of course, but a 33-10 TD-INT ratio with throwing for 3800 yards doesn't seem all that bad to me. In 2020, Johnson had 923 yards on 88 receptions, for a Y/R of 10.5. His YAC was 394 yards for a total YAC/R of 4.5 yards per reception. That's 84th in the NFL.

It's the same story last year. Johnson had 527 YAC for a total YAC/R of 4.9 yards per reception. That was 69th last year. Johnson's YAC this year is especially bad, which I think can partially be explained with Pickett and Canada, but he was never a good YAC player to begin with. Even if you don't look at stats from this year, Johnson's career numbers show that he's really good at getting open but does pretty much nothing with the ball once he has it.

Now combine that with his drop problems and I think it's really easy to see why people have soured on Johnson. If he just didn't have those drop issues, I wouldn't have an issue with the YAC issue. But having both drop issues and also not doing anything with the ball is a bad combination.

If you look at 2021 he’s actually the 23rd ranked wide receiver in YAC/Reception. Your numbers include running backs which really shouldn’t be compared to receivers when it comes to YAC.

So 23rd amongst receivers isn’t really below average. This year has been bad. But that’s mainly due to usage

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

He's been a bad YAC player literally his entire career.

This year is especially bad, and I agree that is mostly on Pickett and Canada. But Johnson in his entire career has not been a good YAC player. He's not good once he has the ball, he's just really good at getting open. If he didn't have such issues with drops, I wouldn't really care about that, but he does have dropping issues.

Sure he has his warts, nobodys denying that.

He gets open plenty to put up numbers in the right offense with a league average QB.

Hes clearly not ever gonna be Hill/Adams etc but he’s been completely competent with literally the worst system and QBs to fit his skillset.

 

[Flying Dego]

Sure he has his warts, nobodys denying that.

He gets open plenty to put up numbers in the right offense with a league average QB.

Hes clearly not ever gonna be Hill/Adams etc but he’s been completely competent with literally the worst system and QBs to fit his skillset.

I like DJ as a #3 slot type rather than a relied upon #1 volume WR. I guess that's it end of the day for me.

I feel strongly that we'd do better having more physical or speedy guys on the outside. Hence why I'd be over the moon to nab a Johnston or Harrison Jr (next year). One of those two with Pickens on the outside would be a nightmare to the opposition.

No team is gamelanning to stop DJ. He does as good a job dropping his own.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Sure hes not the greatest YAC reciever. But theres only so mich you can do with comebacks and shallow crossers.

Again he a wr with his warts but if you want to see yac hit him on a skinny post once in a while not a 5 yard curl.

He’s had the ball in space countless times and does little with it.

He’s not a burner, isn’t a combat catch guy, and he’s not a YAC guy.

There’s only so much a QB and OC can do with a guy who has those kind of limitations.

He’s a fine #2 guy, but if he’s getting the bulk of your throws in an offense that doesn’t pass much, well - this is the end result.

Not exactly surprising this offense isn’t explosive when it’s run heavy and designed to get a small, non-physical and slow WR volume catches.

 

[MrBrightside]

He’s had the ball in space countless times and does little with it.

He’s not a burner, isn’t a combat catch guy, and he’s not a YAC guy.

There’s only so much a QB and OC can do with a guy who has those kind of limitations.

He’s a fine #2 guy, but if he’s getting the bulk of your throws in an offense that doesn’t pass much, well - this is the end result.

Not exactly surprising this offense isn’t explosive when it’s run heavy and designed to get a small, slow WR volume catches.

This is a way more compelling criticism of the rest of the roster than it is of Johnson.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I vote we let him go just like JuJu and Claypool and see how awesome 'the most open wr' can be.

Having a better QB and system might help him on volume but will it fix his faults? No he'll never be a game breaker with good hands.

Take Mahomes for example. Put him on the Chiefs and he's not getting the volume. He's also not stretching the field. He probably gets less. Herbert? He's probably the #3 at best there.

All I'm saying is fans here put too much credit on him. He's nothing we'd be missing when he's done here.

Put him with the chiefs he the clear number 1 Wr right now that is juju. He would be top 10 Wr easy.

He’s had the ball in space countless times and does little with it.

He’s not a burner, isn’t a combat catch guy, and he’s not a YAC guy.

There’s only so much a QB and OC can do with a guy who has those kind of limitations.

He’s a fine #2 guy, but if he’s getting the bulk of your throws in an offense that doesn’t pass much, well - this is the end result.

Not exactly surprising this offense isn’t explosive when it’s run heavy and designed to get a small, non-physical and slow WR volume catches.

which is why you hope GP expands his route running abilities. He can be Locket Smith Allen if GP is DK AJ and Williams

 

[xlm34]

Put him with the chiefs he the clear number 1 Wr right now that is juju. He would be top 10 Wr easy.

which is why you hope GP expands his route running abilities. He can be Locket Smith Allen if GP is DK AJ and Williams

GP is a freak but asking him to become a chimera is expecting a little too much, IMO.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

He’s had the ball in space countless times and does little with it.

He’s not a burner, isn’t a combat catch guy, and he’s not a YAC guy.

There’s only so much a QB and OC can do with a guy who has those kind of limitations.

He’s a fine #2 guy, but if he’s getting the bulk of your throws in an offense that doesn’t pass much, well - this is the end result.

Not exactly surprising this offense isn’t explosive when it’s run heavy and designed to get a small, non-physical and slow WR volume catches.

Yeah he obviously has his warts. He no alpha #1 for sure, hes a competent (not special) reciever that is in an offense that is tailor made to limit what hes good at with qbs that have been tailor made to limit what hes good at.

If Ben was still good Ben the last couple years he's putting up real numbers. I have no doubt about that

 

[JTG]

I would absolutely rather gamble on a young WR v. 1 more year of Johnson. Austin is coming in next season which is basically like adding to the draft class. Target Freiermuth and Najee more. I would also love to see them take another TE in the top 3 rounds and do more 2 TE sets where both TEs are legit targets. It would align perfectly with how Kenny plays ball. I have no problem with them not bombing the ball down field, but if you're going to play small ball, better have guys who can carve up a defense.

There is also very real potential Addison is there at 32. Not that I'm condoning taking him, but I cannot see a situation in which the Steelers front office aren't completely creaming themselves if it does. IMO, Addison is a lot like Johnson.

 

[MrBrightside]

I would absolutely rather gamble on a young WR v. 1 more year of Johnson. Austin is coming in next season which is basically like adding to the draft class. Target Freiermuth and Najee more. There is also very real potential Addison is there at 32. Not that I'm condoning taking him, but I cannot see a situation in which the Steelers front office aren't completely creaming themselves if it does.

IMO, Addison is a lot like Johnson.

I just cannot see them going into next season with a WR corps consisting of a 2nd year guy in Pickens, a draft pick, a mid-round WR from this year who hasn't played, and 2-3 jobbers like Sims and Boykin. The Ravens try to get by with shit like this every year and it's the biggest issue they have - just because Johnson isn't a true #1 WR doesn't mean he doesn't have value.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I would absolutely rather gamble on a young WR v. 1 more year of Johnson. Austin is coming in next season which is basically like adding to the draft class. Target Freiermuth and Najee more. I would also love to see them take another TE in the top 3 rounds and do more 2 TE sets where both TEs are legit targets. It would align perfectly with how Kenny plays ball. I have no problem with them not bombing the ball down field, but if you're going to play small ball, better have guys who can carve up a defense.

There is also very real potential Addison is there at 32. Not that I'm condoning taking him, but I cannot see a situation in which the Steelers front office aren't completely creaming themselves if it does. IMO, Addison is a lot like Johnson.

Why is it one more year with DJ? They gave him a 2 year extension that hasn’t even kicked in.

GP is a freak but asking him to become a chimera is expecting a little too much, IMO.

Lol i just looked up what chimera means

 

[JTG]

Why is it one more year with DJ? They gave him a 2 year extension that hasn’t even kicked in.


Lol i just looked up what chimera means

Wishful thinking.