OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Why do you believe the Steelers passing game is designed around DJ? I don't think it is designed correctly at all, period.

And trying to say that DJ isn't performing while other players are is just false. Pickens while he show flashes is very raw and makes mistakes all the time, how many times has he stepped out of bounds and then come in to catch the ball? I would not be happy with him as the only receiver of note for Kenny next season. With all his "greatness" he has 3 TDs this year.

And Muth, while I do think he is having a good season, he has 2 TDs.

This isn't a case of Pickens and Muth having 8TDs and DJ having zero. This is a case of an ineffective OC that doesn't know how to call plays and scheme, especially in the red zone combined with a rookie QB that doesn't know how to throw people open especially in the red zone.

Now don't get me wrong. I do not believe DJ is a true #1 receiver. But he can be a good #2, especially if you know, they threw a slant every once in awhile. Does a slant even exist in Canada's playbook?

DJ has 137 tgt and plays the X, of course the offense is designed around getting him the ball.

Pretending otherwise is patently false.

Pickens is a rookie, not a guy in his fourth year getting the bulk of the targets. You expect mistakes from a rookie.

I also said I have my doubts about GP being the #1 if he doesn’t become a much better route runner.

I'm sick of DJ's drop as much as any Steelers fan, but this is an unfair assessment of him. He's one of the best route runners in the league and is shifty and is good in open space. Problem is that our passing offense is awful and he's forced to run short routes here. We're unable to give him the ball in space because a) Kenny isn't good enough (yet?) and b) Canada is a bad OC.
DJ would thrive on a team like the Chiefs.

He had 100 catches 1167 yds 8td last year with Ben's shadow as his QB.

He isn’t shifty in open space, that’s the problem. If he was, he wouldn’t have such an atrocious YAC.

People can blame Canada and the QBs, but the guy has 84 receptions, which means he’s getting the ball in his hands plenty of times.

Yet he’s doing nothing with those opportunities.

Are you arguing he’s a burner, good at contested catches and has a high YAC?

He’s an avg possession guy that is small and slow compared to his peers.

That’s not an unfair assessment, it’s reality.

If you dropped in Randy Moss for DJ, I think this offense still is ass this year. KP hasn't been able to refine his deep ball, the Oline still is a WIP, and KP scrambles a bit too soon to let deep stuff develop.

I'm in no way a DJ fan and his cap # is irrelevant as the Steelers aren't up against it. So for the sake of continuity, give KP his same starting WR's for next season and then upgrade the following year if DJ still shows as mediocre.

I’m 100% sure a prime Moss makes this offense way more dangerous, even though Canada wouldn’t max out his abilities.

Any top end receiver makes this offense much better than DJ, but that doesn’t excuse Canada either.

DJ isn’t a guy who can get deep consistently, so again that’s a huge part of the problem.

KP dropped a dime in his hands last game on a deep throw and he still found a way to f*** it up.

The arguments for DJ remind me of when Steeler fans tried to convince themselves Troy Edwards was being held back by Stewart and Tomczak.

I have nothing agt the guy, but in a few years a lot of ppl in here will be cringing at their comments about him, much like the Edwards supporters.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I’m 100% sure a prime Moss makes this offense way more dangerous, even though Canada wouldn’t max out his abilities.

Any top end receiver makes this offense much better than DJ, but that doesn’t excuse Canada either.

DJ isn’t a guy who can get deep consistently, so again that’s a huge part of the problem.

KP dropped a dime in his hands last game on a deep throw and he still found a way to f*** it up.

The arguments for DJ remind me of when Steeler fans tried to convince themselves Troy Edwards was being held back by Stewart and Tomczak.

Again, I am in no way defending DJ and I'm advocating for him to eventually be transitioned out if he doesn't start showing up. What I'm saying is that KP's development will be hindered if they keep the WR group in flux. DJ being on this roster is for KP's sake and that's it.

And for what it's worth, DJ should not be the "deep guy". That should be Pickens' role in this offense. I'm not sure Canada has the brains to figure that out.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Again, I am in no way defending DJ and I'm advocating for him to eventually be transitioned out if he doesn't start showing up. What I'm saying is that KP's development will be hindered if they keep the WR group in flux. DJ being on this roster is for KP's sake and that's it.

And for what it's worth, DJ should not be the "deep guy". That should be Pickens' role in this offense. I'm not sure Canada has the brains to figure that out.

I don’t know if losing a flanker who avg 10 YPC over his career will have a great impact on any QB, but it’s a moot point because of the cap issue.

I was a big DJ supporter after he was taken and during his first couple yrs, but he’s shown us who he is and it’s not a #1 guy.

I just don’t feel like it’s much to ask that a guy with 137 trt gets a TD or two, has at least one or two hundred yard games, adds in a few explosive plays, and is reliable.

Not like I’m angry he isn’t a 1500 yrd, 12 TD guy.

Again, ppl keep ignoring this, but who is the last guy to lead his team in rcpts, and not post a single TD or 100 yard game?

Has it ever even happened?

I know it’s been since before 1950 a Steelers leader in receptions hasn’t caught a TD.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I don’t know if losing a flanker who avg 10 YPC over his career will have a great impact on any QB, but it’s a moot point because of the cap issue.

I was a big DJ supporter after he was taken and during his first couple yrs, but he’s shown us who he is and it’s not a #1 guy.

I just don’t feel like it’s much to ask that a guy with 137 trt gets a TD or two, has at least one or two hundred yard games, adds in a few explosive plays, and is reliable.

Not like I’m angry he isn’t a 1500 yrd, 12 TD guy.

Again, ppl keep ignoring this, but who is the last guy to lead his team in rcpts, and not post a single TD or 100 yard game?

Has it ever even happened?

I know it’s been since before 1950 a Steelers leader in receptions hasn’t caught a TD.

It's the "devil you know" debate. We disagree on the approach of KP's development and comfort and that's fine.

And again I do not care for DJ, but I'll use the word "transition" to describe what happened this year with the offense. New QB, new WR2, W3 traded away mid-season, new Center and new Guard. Starting RB hobbled too.

Anyone surprised about the struggles of the offense? This is not excuse making by any stretch. I do expect that the offense will take a step forward next year. Believe they were in the bottom 5 this season? I would expect with more continuity and KP gaining experience we should hit in the middle of the pack

 

[xlm34]

I don’t think characterizing DJ as a bad YAC guy is necessarily accurate. It’s for sure been the case this year but if you look at his career as a whole:

2019: 5.2 YAC/Reception which was 15th among receivers.

2020: 4.5 YAC/Reception which was 43rd among receivers.

2021: 4.9 YAC/Reception which was 21st among receivers.

2022: 2.5 YAC/Reception which is 78th among receivers.

So he either forgot what to do once he gets the ball, the offensive coordinator is a moron and asking him to run routes that don’t lead to YAC opportunities, or he’s working with a rookie QB that’s adjusting to the NFL. Or some combination of the three.

I have no problem with attempting to upgrade DJ, but I think he’ll still be a useful guy to have around for at least the next year.

 

[The Old Master]

And for what it's worth, DJ should not be the "deep guy". That should be Pickens' role in this offense. I'm not sure Canada has the brains to figure that out.

not so sure a guy who has trouble getting open should be the deep guy. the farther you need to through the ball the more the guy needs to be open in general. when he's not, the pass needs to be right on, d-backs can close a lot of ground in very little time

 

[Flying Dego]

It's the "devil you know" debate. We disagree on the approach of KP's development and comfort and that's fine.

And again I do not care for DJ, but I'll use the word "transition" to describe what happened this year with the offense. New QB, new WR2, W3 traded away mid-season, new Center and new Guard. Starting RB hobbled too.

Anyone surprised about the struggles of the offense? This is not excuse making by any stretch. I do expect that the offense will take a step forward next year. Believe they were in the bottom 5 this season? I would expect with more continuity and KP gaining experience we should hit in the middle of the pack

Got the solution. Move DJ to the slot next season. Draft Johnston or Enjigba to be our X wr across from Pickens...every fan is happy!

DJ can continue being shifty sub 10yds while we get actual outside playmakers.

 

[Pens1566]

Got the solution. Move DJ to the slot next season. Draft Johnston or Enjigba to be our X wr across from Pickens...every fan is happy!

DJ can continue being shifty sub 10yds while we get actual outside playmakers.

Draft Addison to remove the "we need KP to build rapport" argument.

TBH, I'd expect either him or Njigba to produce at least similar #s to DJ.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It's the "devil you know" debate. We disagree on the approach of KP's development and comfort and that's fine.

And again I do not care for DJ, but I'll use the word "transition" to describe what happened this year with the offense. New QB, new WR2, W3 traded away mid-season, new Center and new Guard. Starting RB hobbled too.

Anyone surprised about the struggles of the offense? This is not excuse making by any stretch. I do expect that the offense will take a step forward next year. Believe they were in the bottom 5 this season? I would expect with more continuity and KP gaining experience we should hit in the middle of the pack

I’m mostly arguing for what Pens56 wrote and that people suggesting he’s crazy for wanting to trade DJ is eye roll worthy.

I know the reality of the cap makes what he wrote impossible, however.

I definitely disagree that DJ is any kind of key for KP’s continued development. Many are arguing that continuity is why Canada should be kept around as well, and that is uh, not something I agree with either.

DJ over his four years has shown us he’s not a reliable receiver and rarely makes any clutch plays - I’m not sure how that doesn’t concern ppl moving fwd.

Maybe he will finally make some clutch plays when they need it the most Sunday, but he’s shown again and again he comes up small in the big moments.

 

[MrBrightside]

I’m mostly arguing for what Pens56 wrote and that people suggesting he’s crazy for wanting to trade DJ is eye roll worthy.

I know the reality of the cap makes what he wrote impossible, however.

I definitely disagree that DJ is any kind of key for KP’s continued development. Many are arguing that continuity is why Canada should be kept around as well, and that is uh, not something I agree with either.

DJ over his four years has shown us he’s not a reliable receiver and rarely makes any clutch plays - I’m not sure how that doesn’t concern ppl moving fwd.

You continue to ignore the simple issue that there's not an alternative. It's not like they can decide, yeah, Amari Cooper makes similar money - we will take him instead. There are no UFA FA WR worth having and the market will be absurd for those who are out there and you can't just go with all rookies at this position. Continuing to just say he's overpaid for what he is misses the point.

 

[Flying Dego]

You continue to ignore the simple issue that there's not an alternative. It's not like they can decide, yeah, Amari Cooper makes similar money - we will take him instead. There are no UFA FA WR worth having and the market will be absurd for those who are out there and you can't just go with all rookies at this position. Continuing to just say he's overpaid for what he is misses the point.

We fixed it my guy. Draft one of Addison, Johnston, or Njigba 1st round. They play across from Pickens.

DJ goes in the slot where he can be shifty. So him and Friar continue to be security blankets while we get real threats outside.

Seems completely fair to me and a massive improvement on the offense.

 

[MrBrightside]

We fixed it my guy. Draft one of Addison, Johnston, or Njigba 1st round. They play across from Pickens.

DJ goes in the slot where he can be shifty. So him and Friar continue to be security blankets while we get real threats outside.

Seems completely fair to me and a massive improvement on the offense.

No one is opposed to adding another WR. They need to do that. The ongoing debate is whether to move on from Johnson, not move him to the slot.

 

[Flying Dego]

No one is opposed to adding another WR. They need to do that. The ongoing debate is whether to move on from Johnson, not move him to the slot.

If people are worried to offload him next season he makes the most sense in the slot. Then move on the following year.

His ego won't like it. I mean he's been quite vocal when he's not getting 10 targets a game.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You continue to ignore the simple issue that there's not an alternative. It's not like they can decide, yeah, Amari Cooper makes similar money - we will take him instead. There are no UFA FA WR worth having and the market will be absurd for those who are out there and you can't just go with all rookies at this position. Continuing to just say he's overpaid for what he is misses the point.

How did you just read my post then write this?

I flat out said the cap makes it impossible to move on from DJ right there in the second sentence.

That doesn’t change the fact that Pens56 is right and DJ is just a body in the way Edwards was.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

We fixed it my guy. Draft one of Addison, Johnston, or Njigba 1st round. They play across from Pickens.

DJ goes in the slot where he can be shifty. So him and Friar continue to be security blankets while we get real threats outside.

Seems completely fair to me and a massive improvement on the offense.

We're going to spend a 1st on a WR when the OLine and Dline are in shambles? No thanks...

I’m mostly arguing for what Pens56 wrote and that people suggesting he’s crazy for wanting to trade DJ is eye roll worthy.

I know the reality of the cap makes what he wrote impossible, however.

I definitely disagree that DJ is any kind of key for KP’s continued development. Many are arguing that continuity is why Canada should be kept around as well, and that is uh, not something I agree with either.

DJ over his four years has shown us he’s not a reliable receiver and rarely makes any clutch plays - I’m not sure how that doesn’t concern ppl moving fwd.

Maybe he will finally make some clutch plays when they need it the most Sunday, but he’s shown again and again he comes up small in the big moments.

As someone else just said, who do you replace DJ with?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

How did you just read my post then write this?

I flat out said the cap makes it impossible to move on from DJ right there in the second sentence.

That doesn’t change the fact that Pens56 is right and DJ is just a body in the way Edwards was.

Is anyone arguing that in a vacuume that DJ is a top guy or that in a vacuume he shouldnt/cant be moved on from?

Its the context that matters here.

Salary cap
Bigger priorities
Pickens being your most proven WR
Continuity for Pickett (especially if they make other changes like firing Canada)

I mean im one of the people thats highest on DJ and i dont think hes either anything special or irreplaceable. Just that moving on for the sake of moving on or asset mgmt doesnt make sense.

With the Caveat that if a truely special WR drop to where they cant pass it up and moving DJ is necessary to accomplish that. But i dont even know if that player is in the draft this year.

 

[Flying Dego]

We're going to spend a 1st on a WR when the OLine and Dline are in shambles? No thanks...

Can't draft everything but we've got some picks.

WR #16
OT/DL #32
OT/DL #47

Also can look at FA for help in the trenches. Really our Oline looks good enough at the moment sans replacing Moore. That is necessary.

Getting a guy who can be our version of Chase is worth the risk to me but I'm a riverboat gambler...lucky for you I think our team plays it real safe.

Then again maybe the go back to Steeler football and draft an OLB #1

Is anyone arguing that in a vacuume that DJ is a top guy or that in a vacuume he shouldnt/cant be moved on from?

Its the context that matters here.

Salary cap
Bigger priorities
Pickens being your most proven WR
Continuity for Pickett (especially if they make other changes like firing Canada)

I mean im one of the people thats highest on DJ and i dont think hes either anything special or irreplaceable. Just that moving on for the sake of moving on or asset mgmt doesnt make sense.

With the Caveat that if a truely special WR drop to where they cant pass it up and moving DJ is necessary to accomplish that. But i dont even know if that player is in the draft this year.

Honestly all of Johnston, Addison, Njigba would be a nice playmaker upgrade IMO. All range around mid 1sts it seems.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We're going to spend a 1st on a WR when the OLine and Dline are in shambles? No thanks...



As someone else just said, who do you replace DJ with?

That’s like the Tomlin argument.

“Hey this guy is doing avg at his job, who else ya gonna get to replace that?”

Finding a guy to replace his avg production and 10 YPC isn’t the issue.

Moving on from him AND having his dead cap hit is the real issue.

That doesn’t change the fact Pens56 is right and he can’t be their #1 guy going fwd if this offense wants to go next level.

Is anyone arguing that in a vacuume that DJ is a top guy or that in a vacuume he shouldnt/cant be moved on from?

Its the context that matters here.

Salary cap
Bigger priorities
Pickens being your most proven WR
Continuity for Pickett (especially if they make other changes like firing Canada)

I mean im one of the people thats highest on DJ and i dont think hes either anything special or irreplaceable. Just that moving on for the sake of moving on or asset mgmt doesnt make sense.

With the Caveat that if a truely special WR drop to where they cant pass it up and moving DJ is necessary to accomplish that. But i dont even know if that player is in the draft this year.

Well ya… I think almost all of us are saying he can’t be moved on from because of his new deal, unless I’m missing something about the structure of his deal.

If a guy after four years keeps showing you he’s an avg receiver that’s mistake prone, that’s pretty much who he is.

The Steelers can’t fool themselves into thinking DJ is their current and future #1.

If a good WR falls to the Bears pick, I hope they aren’t foolish enough to pass on him because they have DJ.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I'm curious what people think Pickens has to learn from DJ? Running backwards? He already has better hands and route running ability. He's a generational talent that hopefully doesn't go to waste here in a stupid offensive system.

I think in the draft they have to go OL or DL in the first. Grab Addison with the Bears pick if he's there (he probably will be, IMO) if you really want to go WR.

 

[Power Surge]

Who you gonna get to replace Limas Sweed??

 

[DanielPlainview]

Sammie Coates

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

We’ll see about GP next year. His route running will have to improve dramatically, but that’s what the off-season is for.

If DJ is pushing 100 catches again and getting the bulk of the touches, this offense will still be ass IMHO.

Maybe it isn't what you mean, but to me this reads like "Pickens is good but isn't all there yet and has some growing to do so we should definitely move on from the only other receiver on the roster who's done anything in the league."

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Can't draft everything but we've got some picks.

WR #16
OT/DL #32
OT/DL #47

Also can look at FA for help in the trenches. Really our Oline looks good enough at the moment sans replacing Moore. That is necessary.

Getting a guy who can be our version of Chase is worth the risk to me but I'm a riverboat gambler...lucky for you I think our team plays it real safe.

Then again maybe the go back to Steeler football and draft an OLB #1


Honestly all of Johnston, Addison, Njigba would be a nice playmaker upgrade IMO. All range around mid 1sts it seems.

The issue is that there isn't a Chase in this draft. This year's WR class is weak. Johnston, Addison and especially JSN have question marks.

If a good WR falls to the Bears pick, I hope they aren’t foolish enough to pass on him because they have DJ.

Agreed. And the reason for that is two fold. To have another receiver in addition to Pickens and DJ, but to also have one in line if they want to let DJ go after this next season if he doesn't perform. Or Pickens doesn't perform.

I'm curious what people think Pickens has to learn from DJ? Running backwards? He already has better hands and route running ability. He's a generational talent that hopefully doesn't go to waste here in a stupid offensive system.

I think in the draft they have to go OL or DL in the first. Grab Addison with the Bears pick if he's there (he probably will be, IMO) if you really want to go WR.

He does not have better route running ability. I have seen him make amazing catches but he has not impressed me that much to say he is generational. When I think of generational, I think of Moss or Calvin Johnson. Guys that showed from day one they couldn't be covered. Or AB in his prime, though I wouldn't say he was generational.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Can't draft everything but we've got some picks.

WR #16
OT/DL #32
OT/DL #47

Also can look at FA for help in the trenches. Really our Oline looks good enough at the moment sans replacing Moore. That is necessary.

Getting a guy who can be our version of Chase is worth the risk to me but I'm a riverboat gambler...lucky for you I think our team plays it real safe.

Then again maybe the go back to Steeler football and draft an OLB #1


Honestly all of Johnston, Addison, Njigba would be a nice playmaker upgrade IMO. All range around mid 1sts it seems.

They might be, there are also waaay bigger needs

 

[xlm34]

The mentions of Limas Sweed and Sammie Coates are why there some people in favor of keeping DJ around.

Maybe you trade DJ and knock it out of the park with the draft pick. Or maybe you roll into next season with receiving group of Pickens, Coates, And Calvin Austin.

And all that for a couple extra million in cap space for a team that’s not strapped for cash? Just not worth the risk.

I’m definitely in favor of adding a receiver to the room though.