OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Night Shift]

It’s not disingenuous. You just don’t agree with it which is fine. There’s a difference though.

And like I said to someone else, kudos for developing another QB but let me know when he actually wins something with him. That’s ultimately going to be what matters.

I'm inclined to think he will. Harbaugh at least has proven he's capable of adapting and Lamar is still young.

 

[xlm34]

I'm inclined to think he will. Harbaugh at least has proven he's capable of adapting and Lamar is still young.

It’s definitely possible. If Lamar played for anyone but the Ravens I’d be rooting hard for him. Seems like a super likeable guy and is fun as hell to watch.

 

[Night Shift]

It’s wild that people still defend Tomlin.

Seriously, what would it take for the kool aid gang to finally admit that they were wrong about him?

Itll never end. I'd rather have Joe Pa from the grave, Weekend at Bernies like, coach this team.

 

[Night Shift]

It’s definitely possible. If Lamar played for anyone but the Ravens I’d be rooting hard for him. Seems like a super likeable guy and is fun as hell to watch.

It was rumored he wanted to come back to his home state Florida. Miami in particular but I don't see it with Tua's resurgence. Tampa needs a QB next year but has to move over 40 mill in cap space in the offseason. So he will probably stay with the Ravens.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It’s not disingenuous. You just don’t agree with it which is fine. There’s a difference though.

And like I said to someone else, kudos for developing another QB but let me know when he actually wins something with him. That’s ultimately going to be what matters.

It’s disingenuous to suggest they have had the same success the last decade+ when facts can easily show that’s not reality.

It’s not like it’s even really close where I can see your point.

I agree LJ has to start showing he’s more than a regular season sensation and I have harped on that many times before.

If Tomlin can develop and win with KP, then we can have this discussion again and I’ll have no problem giving him his dues.

However as it stands today it’s not really an opinion that Harbaugh has had way more success the last 11 years, it’s a simple fact.

 

[xlm34]

It’s disingenuous to suggest they have had the same success the last decade+ when facts can easily show that’s not reality.

It’s not like it’s even really close where I can see your point.

I agree LJ has to start showing he’s more than a regular season sensation and I have harped on that many times before.

If Tomlin can develop and win with KP, then we can have this discussion again and I’ll have no problem giving him his dues.

However as it stands today it’s not really an opinion that Harbaugh has had way more success the last 11 years, it’s a simple fact.

I pretty much just said they had the same success over the last 10 years and that’s also a simple fact. 3 wins for Tomlin. 2 for Harbaugh. If one is going to get deserved criticism for lack of recent playoff success, so should the other.

We can go back and evaluate their entire careers, but the difference is basically going to be that Tomlin has one more Super Bowl appearance and Harbaugh has a few more wild card wins.

 

[Night Shift]

It’s disingenuous to suggest they have had the same success the last decade+ when facts can easily show that’s not reality.

It’s not like it’s even really close where I can see your point.

I agree LJ has to start showing he’s more than a regular season sensation and I have harped on that many times before.

If Tomlin can develop and win with KP, then we can have this discussion again and I’ll have no problem giving him his dues.

However as it stands today it’s not really an opinion that Harbaugh has had way more success the last 11 years, it’s a simple fact.

I've seemed noticed Tomlin fans like forget the same points we put out over and over and will bring their same tired argument 3-6 months later. It's like clockwork.

You have slightly more faith in him working things out than I do. I know not by much. I think he's a buffoon incapable of more than he is.

Tomlin's doesn't have a plan. Or any ideas. Never a plan or an idea. He's in over his head. But his immunity to criticism makes it bearable for him to continue on.

I pretty much just said they had the same success over the last 10 years and that’s also a simple fact. 3 wins for Tomlin. 2 for Harbaugh. If one is going to get deserved criticism for lack of recent playoff success, so should the other.

We can go back and evaluate their entire careers, but the difference is basically going to be that Tomlin has one more Super Bowl appearance and Harbaugh has a few more wild card wins.

If both Switched places (organizations) from day 1.. Harbaugh all day. I'd argue he'd run away with it lol.

 

[Night Shift]

disagree with @KesselMania about putting Tomlin over Bowles. Bowles knows how to scheme defense (still does it well as HC) and is a Superbowl winning DC.

Tomlin was a garbage DC in Minnesota. He may as well be Jeff Saturday.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

That's what I said. Harbaugh had mostly dominated Tomlin from 2011-2019. Tomlin had a few wins here and there.

And yet Harris couldn’t watch tape with Tomlin lol

 

[Night Shift]

And yet Harris couldn’t watch tape with Tomlin lol

Nah it sounds like damage control after Pickett called them out. But Pickett is a rookie, what are they offering? The entire staff is incapable of coaching/developing. So Pickett has to do extra unnecessary work that he wouldn't have elsewhere.

If I was Pickett, I'd demand for a trade.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Nah it sounds like damage control after Pickett called them out.

I thought he called out his teamates and they dumped Claypool a few days after.
It’s interesting to see Daniels say he has to much stuff to worry about to know if you watch film but Doctson say they all talked and decided they will help if asked when he comes to watching film

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I pretty much just said they had the same success over the last 10 years and that’s also a simple fact. 3 wins for Tomlin. 2 for Harbaugh. If one is going to get deserved criticism for lack of recent playoff success, so should the other.

We can go back and evaluate their entire careers, but the difference is basically going to be that Tomlin has one more Super Bowl appearance and Harbaugh has a few more wild card wins.

10 years ago Harbaugh had just won a SB with the Jeff Hostetler of our time, so no clue where you are getting your numbers.

That still gives him a 6-3 edge in playoff wins, along with a SB and developing a pro bowl QB.

Tomlin has basically spent that time building a reputation as a coach that is known for one playoff debacle after another, and becoming the first Steelers coach in 50 years to go 5 years without a playoff win (soon to be 6).

There really isn’t any legit way to twist this in Tomlin’s favor, hence the disingenuous comment.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I've seemed noticed Tomlin fans like forget the same points we put out over and over and will bring their same tired argument 3-6 months later. It's like clockwork.

You have slightly more faith in him working things out than I do. I know not by much. I think he's a buffoon incapable of more than he is.

Tomlin's doesn't have a plan. Or any ideas. Never a plan or an idea. He's in over his head. But his immunity to criticism makes it bearable for him to continue on.



If both Switched places (organizations) from day 1.. Harbaugh all day. I'd argue he'd run away with it lol.

I try to be fair to Tomlin, so it’s not faith as much as me being willing to give him credit when he actually does stuff.

I believe that he will only achieve success again when he puts his massive ego aside and hires legit, talented coordinators who aren’t his cronies - either forced or of his own free will.

However, I suspect that will make a big difference when he’s no longer allowed to play the smartest guy in the room routine.

 

[xlm34]

10 years ago Harbaugh had just won a SB with the Jeff Hostetler of our time, so no clue where you are getting your numbers.

That still gives him a 6-3 edge in playoff wins, along with a SB and developing a pro bowl QB.

Tomlin has basically spent that time building a reputation as a coach that is known for one playoff debacle after another, and becoming the first Steelers coach in 50 years to go 5 years without a playoff win (soon to be 6).

There really isn’t any legit way to twist this in Tomlin’s favor, hence the disingenuous comment.

It’s not something we’re gonna agree on so really no point in discussing Tomlin/Harbaugh any further.

I don’t understand trying to undersell Joe Flacco’s contributions to that Super Bowl though. People’s perceptions of him really shouldn’t matter. He legitimately had one of the best playoff runs ever by a QB. That’s not an exaggeration at all. Harbaugh doesn’t have a Super Bowl win without him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It’s not something we’re gonna agree on so really no point in discussing Tomlin/Harbaugh any further.

I don’t understand trying to undersell Joe Flacco’s contributions to that Super Bowl though. People’s perceptions of him really shouldn’t matter. He legitimately had one of the best playoff runs ever by a QB. That’s not an exaggeration at all. Harbaugh doesn’t have a Super Bowl win without him.

When did I write that he didn’t contribute to that SB win?

That doesn’t change that he’s just a guy most fans will remember for having an unremarkable career.

He never made a Pro Bowl, put up decent, but not eye popping numbers, and more or less wasn’t well thought of in Baltimore save one magical run.

Harbaugh never had the luxury of riding on the coattails of a HOF QB, yet he’s the one with the winning playoff record.

Like you said, we will never agree because some of you can’t take off the B&G sunglasses and give Harbaugh his just dues (I despise the guy, so not like I want to sing his praises).

 

[bigdaddyk88]

When did I write that he didn’t contribute to that SB win?

That doesn’t change that he’s just a guy most fans will remember for having an unremarkable career.

He never made a Pro Bowl, put up decent, but not eye popping numbers, and more or less wasn’t well thought of in Baltimore save one magical run.

Harbaugh never had the luxury of riding on the coattails of a HOF QB, yet he’s the one with the winning playoff record.

Like you said, we will never agree because some of you can’t take off the B&G sunglasses and give Harbaugh his just dues (I despise the guy, so not like I want to sing his praises).

And Tomlin HOF Qb never had a playoff stretch like Flacco. The only real stretch was 05 and he didn’t get to 11 tds.
He has 2 wins since 2012 with Flacco and that’s with a league mvp

When did I write that he didn’t contribute to that SB win?

That doesn’t change that he’s just a guy most fans will remember for having an unremarkable career.

He never made a Pro Bowl, put up decent, but not eye popping numbers, and more or less wasn’t well thought of in Baltimore save one magical run.

Harbaugh never had the luxury of riding on the coattails of a HOF QB, yet he’s the one with the winning playoff record.

Like you said, we will never agree because some of you can’t take off the B&G sunglasses and give Harbaugh his just dues (I despise the guy, so not like I want to sing his praises).

When did I write that he didn’t contribute to that SB win?

That doesn’t change that he’s just a guy most fans will remember for having an unremarkable career.

He never made a Pro Bowl, put up decent, but not eye popping numbers, and more or less wasn’t well thought of in Baltimore save one magical run.

Harbaugh never had the luxury of riding on the coattails of a HOF QB, yet he’s the one with the winning playoff record.

Like you said, we will never agree because some of you can’t take off the B&G sunglasses and give Harbaugh his just dues (I despise the guy, so not like I want to sing his praises).

 

[JTG]

When did I write that he didn’t contribute to that SB win?

That doesn’t change that he’s just a guy most fans will remember for having an unremarkable career.

He never made a Pro Bowl, put up decent, but not eye popping numbers, and more or less wasn’t well thought of in Baltimore save one magical run.

Harbaugh never had the luxury of riding on the coattails of a HOF QB, yet he’s the one with the winning playoff record.

Like you said, we will never agree because some of you can’t take off the B&G sunglasses and give Harbaugh his just dues (I despise the guy, so not like I want to sing his praises).

The thing with Baltimore is that they can draft. I've never been a huge fan of any of the QBs they have had, but their front office is tops in the league, in my opinion.

 

[Pens1566]

Harbaugh is a better coach than MT. If you'd swapped them the last ~10yrs, we'd probably have another SB in there.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

People talk like Harbaugh led the Bad News Bears to the Super Bowl like he didn’t have an all-time defense with Pro Bowlers and generational players and were broadly bereft of talent.

Harbaugh is a very good coach with different strengths and weaknesses to Tomlin. But their results, which people want to chalk up to one guy, are pretty much identical.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

And Tomlin HOF Qb never had a playoff stretch like Flacco. The only real stretch was 05 and he didn’t get to 11 tds.
He has 2 wins since 2012 with Flacco and that’s with a league mvp

Again, people around here want to dance around facts with Harbaugh and Tomlin.

One guy has had a major advantage with a 2 time SB winning, future HOF QB, and the other didn’t.

The guy with the future HOF QB:

- has a losing playoff record and is about to enter year six without a playoff win, a modern franchise record of futility

- the first coach in history to score more than 40+ points at home and lose a playoff game

- is on a current run of giving up 35+ points in his last 4 playoff games, and 40+ given up in his last three.

- is 0-4 in his last four playoff games

The one without the massive advantage at QB and the skill positions:

- has the same amount of SB wins
- significantly more playoff wins
- winning record in the playoffs
- actually beat Hoodie and Brady in the playoffs
- is the all time leader in road playoff wins

It’s pretty embarrassing some around here can’t get past their hate for Harbaugh and give him his dues.

He’s had much more playoff success with less offensive talent than Tomlin, while sporting similarly talented defenses.

Thinking he and Tomlin are the same is pure homer shit TBTH.

 

[xlm34]

When did I write that he didn’t contribute to that SB win?

That doesn’t change that he’s just a guy most fans will remember for having an unremarkable career.

He never made a Pro Bowl, put up decent, but not eye popping numbers, and more or less wasn’t well thought of in Baltimore save one magical run.

Harbaugh never had the luxury of riding on the coattails of a HOF QB, yet he’s the one with the winning playoff record.

Like you said, we will never agree because some of you can’t take off the B&G sunglasses and give Harbaugh his just dues (I despise the guy, so not like I want to sing his praises).

It literally has nothing to do with black and gold glasses no matter what you want to believe. I never once said Harbaugh wasn’t a good coach.

There’s just a double standard when it comes to talking about coaches.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It literally has nothing to do with black and gold glasses no matter what you want to believe. I never once said Harbaugh wasn’t a good coach.

There’s just a double standard when it comes to talking about coaches.

Right, there is a double standard with you and other Steeler fans that don’t want to give Harbaugh his due because he’s ‘the enemy’.

Telling me a guy with a winning playoff record, who has more playoff wins, vs a guy with a losing playoff record and less playoff wins is the same, is homerism.

You can throw out the QB argument even though that would be BS, and the career playoff records speak for themselves.

Ya I agree Harbaugh has to start winning more in the playoffs with LJ, but that doesn’t change the fact he’s been a better coach.

Tomlin can’t even win a playoff game anymore so…

 

[xlm34]

Right, there is a double standard with you and other Steeler fans that don’t want to give Harbaugh his due because he’s ‘the enemy’.

Telling me a guy with a winning playoff record, who has more playoff wins, vs a guy with a losing playoff record and less playoff wins is the same, is homerism.

You can throw out the QB argument even though that would be BS, and the career playoff records speak for themselves.

Again I never ‘didn’t give Harbaugh his dues’ so it’s weird you’re just harping on that point.

If you think 3 more wins in the wild card round is significant, then cool I guess? I doubt your opinion on Tomlin would be different if he had a few more of those.

If you gave me the option of team A that would go 11-8 in the playoffs with one Super Bowl appearance and one win vs team B that would go 8-9 in the playoffs with 2 Super Bowl appearances and one win, I’ll take B and the extra Super Bowl run.

The double standard I’m talking about is things like five straight seasons of no playoff wins being a fireable offense for Tomlin but apparently being totally cool for Harbaugh? Unless you were adamant that Harbaugh should be fired after 2019? That’s fine to have that opinion but at least be consistent.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Again, people around here want to dance around facts with Harbaugh and Tomlin.

One guy has had a major advantage with a 2 time SB winning, future HOF QB, and the other didn’t.

The guy with the future HOF QB:

- has a losing playoff record and is about to enter year six without a playoff win, a modern franchise record of futility

- the first coach in history to score more than 40+ points at home and lose a playoff game

- is on a current run of giving up 35+ points in his last 4 playoff games, and 40+ given up in his last three.

- is 0-4 in his last four playoff games

The one without the massive advantage at QB and the skill positions:

- has the same amount of SB wins
- significantly more playoff wins
- winning record in the playoffs
- actually beat Hoodie and Brady in the playoffs
- is the all time leader in road playoff wins

It’s pretty embarrassing some around here can’t get past their hate for Harbaugh and give him his dues.

He’s had much more playoff success with less offensive talent than Tomlin, while sporting similarly talented defenses.

Thinking he and Tomlin are the same is pure homer shit TBTH.

So harbaugh is 1-3 in his last 4 playoff games with a league mvp. If you take out the 2012 Flacco run is 4-5 in the playoffs. Tomlin never coached a league mvp his HOF Qb played like garbage in the playoffs
He is 1-2 against Jodie in the playoffs his lone win came in 2012. Tomlin Ben in 2 SB Hairball hasn’t

Again, people around here want to dance around facts with Harbaugh and Tomlin.

One guy has had a major advantage with a 2 time SB winning, future HOF QB, and the other didn’t.

The guy with the future HOF QB:

- has a losing playoff record and is about to enter year six without a playoff win, a modern franchise record of futility

- the first coach in history to score more than 40+ points at home and lose a playoff game

- is on a current run of giving up 35+ points in his last 4 playoff games, and 40+ given up in his last three.

- is 0-4 in his last four playoff games

The one without the massive advantage at QB and the skill positions:

- has the same amount of SB wins
- significantly more playoff wins
- winning record in the playoffs
- actually beat Hoodie and Brady in the playoffs
- is the all time leader in road playoff wins

It’s pretty embarrassing some around here can’t get past their hate for Harbaugh and give him his dues.

He’s had much more playoff success with less offensive talent than Tomlin, while sporting similarly talented defenses.

Thinking he and Tomlin are the same is pure homer shit TBTH.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Again I never ‘didn’t give Harbaugh his dues’ so it’s weird you’re just harping on that point.

If you think 3 more wins in the wild card round is significant, then cool I guess? I doubt your opinion on Tomlin would be different if he had a few more of those.

If you gave me the option of team A that would go 11-8 in the playoffs with one Super Bowl appearance and one win vs team B that would go 8-9 in the playoffs with 2 Super Bowl appearances and one win, I’ll take B and the extra Super Bowl run.

The double standard I’m talking about is things like five straight seasons of no playoff wins being a fireable offense for Tomlin but apparently being totally cool for Harbaugh? Unless you were adamant that Harbaugh should be fired after 2019? That’s fine to have that opinion but at least be consistent.

If Tomlin and Harbaugh had their records flipped, I’d be giving Tomlin the credit, especially because I despise Harbaugh.

But believe what you want if it’s convenient for you.

Every single hard fact supports Harbaugh being the better coach, but apparently blowing off “a few more playoff wins” is your excuse because that’s such an easy accomplishment.

Harbaugh wasn’t the coach of the Steelers so why would I have cared if he should or should not have been fired at any point?

That’s not going to change what their playoff records are.