OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Whose your top 5 or even 10?

I’m going with anyone who has won a playoff game the last five, soon to be six years.

Or is this like top five cliche makers?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I’m going with anyone who has won a playoff game the last five, soon to be six years.

Or is this like top five cliche makers?

So all he has to do is win a playoff game and he will be a top 6 coach?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So all he has to do is win a playoff game and he will be a top 6 coach?

No, just win a playoff game and you are more successful than Tomlin the last six years.

If the standard for being some HOF coach is winning a SB (thanks to the former guys team/staff) then following that up by winning three playoff games in 12 years, the standards have dipped dramatically.

If guys like Reeves and Shanahan are being snubbed, Tomlin better never sniff the Hall, because he’s not even in their universe as a coach.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I don't think being slower makes you a more efficient passer, I think there are dramatically less men who can run a 4.4 and play qb at an NFL level than people who are of average speed.

And, if you have that kind of speed, odds are you are going to be playing a skill position in college.

It is such a bizarre thing to complain about.

There are far fewer people who can throw a football with strength and accuracy than can run a decent 40 time - though whether a 4.6-4.7 is decent is up for debate (for example, I ran a 4.8 when I was a freshman in HS).

What we typically see at youth and HS levels are kids selected for arm skill first, and what you end up with are two types of kids: the ones who are one of the faster players on the field (at least through HS) who run too much, and those who aren't and develop their passing skills more effectively. Coaching plays a big role here.

It's not that complicated to understand and it's worth discussing.

 

[JTG]

Whose your top 5 or even 10?

Right now -

Reid, McVay, McDaniel, Sirianni, Shanahan, Belichick. McDermott and Lefleur are on the same level. Harbaugh has a lower win percentage overall but a much higher win percentage in the playoffs, and has been to more playoff games. Kevin O'Connell is looking pretty good.

He's not a good coach man. He stepped into an amazing situation with a top 10 ranked offense and defense, and a defensive genius as a coordinator and a legit franchise/generational QB entering his prime. Since 2018 he's 41-31-2. We haven't won a playoff game. Coaches have been fired for better.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

McDaniel is a better coach? Like Josh McDaniel? Just no way, that is taking the piss with that suggestion.

Edit: Now that I look up head coaches, it appears you are suggesting Mike McDaniel of the Dolphins. And I'm just gonna disagree that he is on the same level as Andy Reid.

Edit2: The way I look at it, these are the coaches, that without even thinking about it that I would take over Tomlin: McDermott, Reid, Belichick, Vrabel, McVay, Sirianni, Shanahan. I can't make a judgement on the rookie coaches until I have seen them coach for a few seasons.

I would have replaced Tomlin after the Jags playoff debacle. But we all know the Rooneys weren't going to do that and they aren't going to replace Tomlin for the next couple seasons. Tomlin has a contract thru 2024. Most of us want him gone, we want a new voice and are tired of Tomlinisms. But talking about it is just a waste of time until it actually happens. Spouting off about it on a internet message board isn't going to make it happen any faster.

 

[xlm34]

Right now -

Reid, McVay, McDaniel, Sirianni, Shanahan, Belichick. McDermott and Lefleur are on the same level. Harbaugh has a lower win percentage overall but a much higher win percentage in the playoffs, and has been to more playoff games. Kevin O'Connell is looking pretty good.

He's not a good coach man. He stepped into an amazing situation with a top 10 ranked offense and defense, and a defensive genius as a coordinator and a legit franchise/generational QB entering his prime. Since 2018 he's 41-31-2. We haven't won a playoff game. Coaches have been fired for better.

Harbaugh has two playoff wins in the last ten years. He and Tomlin are at the same level.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Harbaugh has two playoff wins in the last ten years. He and Tomlin are at the same level.

This is pretty disingenuous.

If we go to 2011, when Tomlin started his horrid playoff runs with the Tebow Debacle, he has 3 playoff wins, No SBs. No playoff wins in likely six seasons.

In that time Harbaugh has a SB win and seven playoff wins. He’s done that with Joe Flacco, then drafted and developed LJ.

So it’s not really even close who has been more successful in that time.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Harbaugh has two playoff wins in the last ten years. He and Tomlin are at the same level.

Harbaugh has also won a SB more recently than Tomlin

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Harbaugh has also won a SB more recently than Tomlin

He did it with f***ing Joe Flacco to.

He also revamped his entire offense for LJ and has developed him into a dynamic Pro Bowl QB. Which he deserves mad props for because I was 99% sure LJ was going to bust out.

Tomlin…. ?…. ?

 

[xlm34]

Harbaugh has also won a SB more recently than Tomlin

I don’t really care about people’s opinions on Tomlin at this point, but there’s just a massive double standard when talking about him and guys like Harbaugh.

Harbaugh won a Super Bowl 10 years ago. Since then he’s won two playoff games. Its the same shit people get on Tomlin for.

In their careers:

Super Bowl Wins: Same
Super Bowl Appearances: Advantage Tomlin
Conference Championship Appearances: Same

Am I supposed to be super impressed that Harbaugh won a couple more wild card games? Would people’s opinion on Tomlin really be different if he won a few more wild card games? Not likely.

 

[DanielPlainview]

1. Belichick
2. Ried
3. McDermott
4. Carroll
5. McVay
6. Rivera
7. Vrabel
8. LaFleur
9. Stranahan
10. Taylor
11. McCarthy
12. Harbaugh
13. Stephanski
14. Tomlin
15. Pederson
16. Bowles
17. Kingsbury
18. L. Smith
19. McDaniels

TBD:
Allen
Campbell
Daboll
Eberflus
Hackett
McDaniel
O'Connell
Saleh
Saturday
Sirianni
A. Smith
Staley
Wilks

 

[Night Shift]

Tomlin is not on the same level as Reid. Not even close. I've argued that for years. Ju Ju Shuster confirmed it. People still dont listen.

Tomlin is like more Rich Kotite

 

[Night Shift]

I don’t really care about people’s opinions on Tomlin at this point, but there’s just a massive double standard when talking about him and guys like Harbaugh.

Harbaugh won a Super Bowl 10 years ago. Since then he’s won two playoff games. Its the same shit people get on Tomlin for.

In their careers:

Super Bowl Wins: Same
Super Bowl Appearances: Advantage Tomlin
Conference Championship Appearances: Same

Am I supposed to be super impressed that Harbaugh won a couple more wild card games? Would people’s opinion on Tomlin really be different if he won a few more wild card games? Not likely.

Never mind that Harbaugh consistenly outcoaches Tomlin head to head.. Harbaugh adapts a adjusts scheme to fit the type of personnel they have (I.e. Lamar)

What has Tomlin ever done?

 

[xlm34]

Never mind that Harbaugh consistenly outcoaches Tomlin head to head.. Harbaugh adapts a adjusts scheme to fit the type of personnel they have (I.e. Lamar)

What has Tomlin ever done?

This just straight up isn’t true though. Tomlin has a 16-14 record against Harbaugh. That includes going 2-1 against him in the playoffs.

And Harbaugh deserves credit for adapting to Jackson. But he’s also severely limiting his development as a passer by keeping Greg Roman as the OC. And what exactly has Harbaugh won with Jackson? He better hope he can do something this year before having to pay him 50 million.

 

[Night Shift]

This just straight up isn’t true though. Tomlin has a 16-14 record against Harbaugh. That includes going 2-1 against him in the playoffs.

And Harbaugh deserves credit for adapting to Jackson. But he’s also severely limiting his development as a passer but keeping Greg Roman as the OC. And what exactly has Harbaugh won with Jackson? He better hope he can do something this year before having to pay him 50 million.

Most of Tomlin's wins vs Harbaugh were early on and I will give you Tomlin had success recently, but It's been all Harbaugh through the middle years.

Harbaugh also isn't afraid to fire his OC. Did it the year they won.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Most of Tomlin's wins vs Harbaugh were early on and I will give you Tomlin had success recently, but It's been all Harbaugh through the middle years.

Harbaugh also isn't afraid to fire his OC. Did it the year they won.

The last 4 matchups were won by Tomlin. You have to go back 2019 to see the ravens beat the Steelers

 

[Night Shift]

The last 4 matchups were won by Tomlin. You have to go back 2019 to see the ravens beat the Steelers

That's what I said. Harbaugh had mostly dominated Tomlin from 2011-2019. Tomlin had a few wins here and there.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Rivera might be fired if Washington misses the playoffs.
Carrol has multiple losing seasons with Wilson
McDermott and Reid have the best 2Qbs in the league

 

[Night Shift]

Rivera might be fired if Washington misses the playoffs.
Carrol has multiple losing seasons with Wilson
McDermott and Reid have the best 2Qbs in the league

Carol is the modern day Marv Levy. Lol

 

[xlm34]

This is pretty disingenuous.

If we go to 2011, when Tomlin started his horrid playoff runs with the Tebow Debacle, he has 3 playoff wins, No SBs. No playoff wins in likely six seasons.

In that time Harbaugh has a SB win and seven playoff wins. He’s done that with Joe Flacco, then drafted and developed LJ.

So it’s not really even close who has been more successful in that time.

To be fair they don’t win their Super Bowl without Flacco. He was shockingly good during that run. 1100 yards, 11 TDs, no picks while outplaying Luck, Manning, and Brady.

 

[Night Shift]

Rivera was the best candidate in 07 that interviewed and didn't get the job. They gave it to Clown shoes instead.

You guys asked who out there was better? There you go.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

To be fair they don’t win their Super Bowl without Flacco. He was shockingly good during that run. 1100 yards, 11 TDs, no picks while outplaying Luck, Manning, and Brady.

Flacco isn’t even close to going to the HOF though. He’s just a dude people in 20 years will say “he won a SB… really?”

Harbaugh has also developed another pro bowl QB in that time, while having over double the playoff wins.

He also has a winning playoff record, while Tomlin has a losing one.

Again, it’s just disingenuous to say they are the same when Harbaugh has clearly done more with less, has significantly more playoff wins since 2011, a winning playoff record, and had a massive hand in drafting and developing a unique QB talent.

Tomlin is now known for wasting some all time Steelers rosters, getting blown out every playoffs, and setting historical franchise records of ineptness.

 

[xlm34]

Flacco isn’t even close to going to the HOF though. He’s just a dude people in 20 years will say “he won a SB… really?”

Harbaugh has also developed another pro bowl QB in that time, while having over double the playoff wins.

He also has a winning playoff record, while Tomlin has a losing one.

Again, it’s just disingenuous to say they are the same when Harbaugh has clearly done more with less, has significantly more playoff wins since 2011, a winning playoff record, and had a massive hand in drafting and developing a unique QB talent.

It’s not disingenuous. You just don’t agree with it which is fine. There’s a difference though.

And like I said to someone else, kudos for developing another QB but let me know when he actually wins something with him. That’s ultimately going to be what matters.

 

[Pens x]

It’s wild that people still defend Tomlin.

Seriously, what would it take for the kool aid gang to finally admit that they were wrong about him?