The one move that likely gets Dubas fired

[Gallagbi]

He acquired all those players but then let them go. So it’s not a false narrative. He ultimately decided his teams would be better off without those players

Some are still here, some signed as recently as this summer. Id argue we need character more than grit

 

[diceman934]

Thats part of being a professional athlete. I do agree with you but it is his 7th NHL season plus a few more in London, he should be used to it by now. also, any players can always say No comment or I had a bad game and need to be better next game.


Nailed it.


Don't you need to see the returns of the any trades to determine being the worse trade in NHL history. Or do you mean the worse trade in NHL history for the other team, lol.

I meant it as it reads. The return would not come close to his value. He is one of the best players in the NHL and has not yet reached his prime. The team who gets te best player In a rrade wins the trade. We are not getting Connor for him or Mathews so we lose the trade big time

 

[Leafs98]

I am predicting it is still to come. Leafs will be on the fence buyers or sellers at the deadline (like 4 pts out if 8th)...what will he do

 

[GoonieFace]

I am predicting it is still to come. Leafs will be on the fence buyers or sellers at the deadline (like 4 pts out if 8th)...what will he do

As much as I want this team to fail, they are still a playoff team, a playoff failure team, but a playoff team. That’s not good enough, but for some it is unfortunately

 

[Clyde Brewer]

It would be moronic to trade Marner now, but wise to demand more.

It would be moronic to pay Marner 11+ in his 30s if he doesn't meet demands.


I don't think anyone lets Marner go in his prime unless it is a kings ransom back. We have to sink or swim with him. But during times of sinking, and it's been much more sinking, he must shoulder a lot of the blame and most is deserved.

What is Marner's worth in a trade?

I don't think Florida would give up Matthew Tkachuk, and I doubt Ottawa would give up Brady Tkachuk for Marner.

I think that's what we are missing, big time. I'd take Brady for Marner, straight up. I might even consider sweetening the pot.

Do you think Ottawa would make this deal? I think they'd laugh at us.

 

[alliuk12]

I said it before but it's the Marner contract. It was just a terrible deal and there was no comparable too it. He's also been the worst playoff performer in the playoffs from the core. It's kind of disgusting people go on after Nylander, but Marner's mistakes are a lot worse however because "he works hard" so he doesn't get criticized as much.

He also went after the fans. Just a disgrace to the jersey and his dad too

that is a load of crap Nylander Matthews have both been soft as pudding when they played in the playoffs sure they are good players in the regular season when there is no pressure on them but you put them in pressure games and neither one of them showes up it`s the same year after year

 

[Leafsfan74]

I said it before but it's the Marner contract. It was just a terrible deal and there was no comparable too it. He's also been the worst playoff performer in the playoffs from the core. It's kind of disgusting people go on after Nylander, but Marner's mistakes are a lot worse however because "he works hard" so he doesn't get criticized as much.

He also went after the fans. Just a disgrace to the jersey and his dad too

The early large contracts for sure set the ship a sail, and I was willing to part with Marner more than once to take a run at a stud D-man, but it might end up being him rolling the dice with Murray after he got rid of the Mrazek gamble. Regardless of where blame is laid, the 3rd stringer is 0-3.

In a year where his contract is up, I find it a dangerous game to go with another injured goalie. His injury could spell the end for many.

 

[Gabriel426]

I meant it as it reads. The return would not come close to his value. He is one of the best players in the NHL and has not yet reached his prime. The team who gets te best player In a rrade wins the trade. We are not getting Connor for him or Mathews so we lose the trade big time

Don’t know about that bc the Flames seem to be the winner in the Tkachuk trade. Beside, the goal is the win the Cup and not to win the trade.

 

[DarkKnight]

 

[phillipmike]

Dubas is responsible for the roster, but Marner shouldn't act like a spoiled brat under any slight criticism. Should Marner not be held accountable?


Another false narrative that Dubas doesn't like grit

That’s a terrible list. That’s 14 players across 5 seasons for on average of less than 3 “gritty” players a season. And only 7-8 of them actually played a full season or close to it, that’s 1-2 gritty players a year on the team.

Here are the games played for the “gritty” players Dubas brought in;
Hyman: 345 (allowed to walk)
Muzzin: 187 (may never play again)
Simmonds: 113 (scratched more often than playing and Dubas was actively looking to trade him)
Ceci: 56 (allowed to walk)
Bogosian: 45 (not on the team)
Clifford: 41 (scratched more often than playing)
Ritchie: 33 (had to give up assets to get rid of him)
Lyubushkin: 31 (allowed to walk)
Foligno: 7 (allowed to walk)
ZAR: 8
NAK: 6
Marchment: 4 (traded)
Nash: 0 regular season games (allowed to walk)
Benn: 0
Harpur: 0 (allowed to walk)

Only 4 of those guys played a full season with meaningful minutes; Hyman, Muzzin, Bogosian and maybe Simmonds.

It’s one thing to acquire them, it’s another to keep and play them. There are more players to play less than half a season on this list than players who played regular time.

And at the moment only 2 of them are currently in the line in ZAR and NAK and they have 0 points in 14 games. They aren’t contributing. Muzzin, ZAR and NAK rank 2nd, 12th and 13th on that list and Muzzin isn’t even playing.

Those players may be the ones he brought in but he is also responsible for letting these gritty players go too;

Kadri
Hyman
Marchment
Komarov
Martin
Polak
Borgman
Zaitsev
Kapenan

And even other guys who hit like Gauthier, Hainsey, Timashov, Moore, Dermott etc. not to mention the other players above he let go; Ceci, Bogosian, Ritchie, Bush, Foligno, Nash, and Harpur.

So he let more go than brought them in.

Leafs Hits Ranking by GM:
Lou: 12th (5,687 hits in 246 games)
Dubas: 30th (5,595 hits in 300 games)

Dubas only ahead of Buffalo (barely) and Seattle and they have only been in the league 1 full season.

 

[LeafEgo]

What is Marner's worth in a trade?

I don't think Florida would give up Matthew Tkachuk, and I doubt Ottawa would give up Brady Tkachuk for Marner.

I think that's what we are missing, big time. I'd take Brady for Marner, straight up. I might even consider sweetening the pot.

Do you think Ottawa would make this deal? I think they'd laugh at us.

It's an interesting question.

In a trade block scenario you have an overpaid winger with character flaws that is being cast out as the reason a top contender on paper keeps losing in embarrassing fashion. Many teams will sympathize and pass.

Probably some will believe they have the staff and culture that can turn his talents into a Patty Kane, and see opportunity to buy low with an Eichel type package - reduced to account for the baggage. The timing is poor (as usual).

If enough teams fall into the latter you may get closer to the haul some believe he is worth.

I doubt you will get a chucky. Brady is captain and part of a thoughtful rebuild. Ditto recently signed Matty on a good deal overlapping 8 years with Barkov and they are probably looking to distance themselves from the Leafs blueprint.

This discussion never goes anywhere though. It's 'moronic'. As if from the JT signing, to the MM contract, to our results isn't enough to allow for constructive conversation on the topic. Best to run it back but 'do better' around the edges with our ~$10M for the remaining 8/9 forwards because you don't trade elite players regardless of circumstances.

On Wednesday I'd rather dress Tuch.

 

[Clyde Brewer]

It's an interesting question.

In a trade block scenario you have an overpaid winger with character flaws that is being cast out as the reason a top contender on paper keeps losing in embarrassing fashion. Many teams will sympathize and pass.

Probably some will believe they have the staff and culture that can turn his talents into a Patty Kane, and see opportunity to buy low with an Eichel type package - reduced to account for the baggage. The timing is poor (as usual).

If enough teams fall into the latter you may get closer to the haul some believe he is worth.

I doubt you will get a chucky. Brady is captain and part of a thoughtful rebuild. Ditto recently signed Matty on a good deal overlapping 8 years with Barkov and they are probably looking to distance themselves from the Leafs blueprint.

This discussion never goes anywhere though. It's 'moronic'. As if from the JT signing, to the MM contract, to our results isn't enough to allow for constructive conversation on the topic. Best to run it back but 'do better' around the edges with our ~$10M for the remaining 8/9 forwards because you don't trade elite players regardless of circumstances.

On Wednesday I'd rather dress Tuch.

Thanks for the response.

I agree that we would not get a Tkachuk brother for Marner, despite both making less money.


I would also trade for the following other players (who all make less than Marner):

Heiskanen
Aho
Kaprizov
Draisaitl
Makar
Fox
McAvoy

 

[darrylsittler27]

I disagree, the right GM can begin healing this mess and maybe salvage the build. New coach, a big trade and a new vision. But yeah, it has to be soon.

I don't think it is Dubas neck on the line. It is Keefe.
Changing GMs mid season = nothing.

Maybe coach Q is ready for another run...

It's an interesting question.

In a trade block scenario you have an overpaid winger with character flaws that is being cast out as the reason a top contender on paper keeps losing in embarrassing fashion. Many teams will sympathize and pass.

Probably some will believe they have the staff and culture that can turn his talents into a Patty Kane, and see opportunity to buy low with an Eichel type package - reduced to account for the baggage. The timing is poor (as usual).

If enough teams fall into the latter you may get closer to the haul some believe he is worth.

I doubt you will get a chucky. Brady is captain and part of a thoughtful rebuild. Ditto recently signed Matty on a good deal overlapping 8 years with Barkov and they are probably looking to distance themselves from the Leafs blueprint.

This discussion never goes anywhere though. It's 'moronic'. As if from the JT signing, to the MM contract, to our results isn't enough to allow for constructive conversation on the topic. Best to run it back but 'do better' around the edges with our ~$10M for the remaining 8/9 forwards because you don't trade elite players regardless of circumstances.

On Wednesday I'd rather dress Tuch.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Thanks for the response.

I agree that we would not get a Tkachuk brother for Marner, despite both making less money.


I would also trade for the following other players (who all make less than Marner):

Heiskanen
Aho
Kaprizov
Draisaitl
Makar
Fox
McAvoy

I think we have to eat salary just to catch fair value.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

I think Muzzin is one of those vets where they just take it easy during the season and when it gets closer to playoffs, their plays just get better and better.

you are hoping, because realistically he is done.

 

[francis246]

I think we have to eat salary just to catch fair value.

No we wouldn’t, Tkachuk just got moved for Huberdeau.. there are teams that would take Marner and his full cap hit and not even think twice about it

 

[4thline]

No we wouldn’t, Tkachuk just got moved for Huberdeau.. there are teams that would take Marner and his full cap hit and not even think twice about it

Depends what is meant by "eat". There would almost certainly be material money/cap coming back, but it's more likely that its part of the return than pure dumps

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

It won't get him fired now. Marner is worth that money right now in his prime. Next GM will look bad if Marner weak body breaks down in his 30s and his cap hit is 12 mil. Right now he's young and agile enough to keep spinning away from contact and putting up regular season points

 

[Puckstuff]

I think it's important to fire Dubas ASAP. Not only does he deserve it, but his lack of negotiating skill is now known around the league. GM's will bully their way with him now at the deadline. Also the new GM needs time to relationship build with Matthews so we can sign him. If we fire Dubas right before the Matthews contract talks it could sabotage the deal as the new GM won't have had a long time to know the Matthews camp and Auston will want to be on the same page with the new leadership group. The time is honestly within the next couple of weeks imo to do this sort of thing. The sooner the better imo.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Depends what is meant by "eat". There would almost certainly be material money/cap coming back, but it's more likely that its part of the return than pure dumps

Or we take 2 players or give 2. Marner plus Sandin may land a top 2 dman plus.

 

[Menzinger]

Depends what is meant by "eat". There would almost certainly be material money/cap coming back, but it's more likely that its part of the return than pure dumps

If the Leafs were to trade him, I doubt they'd want a pure futures orientated return anyway.

They'd likely want some establish talent coming back, which would mean they would be taking that salary.

 

[Knies iT]

That’s a terrible list. That’s 14 players across 5 seasons for on average of less than 3 “gritty” players a season. And only 7-8 of them actually played a full season or close to it, that’s 1-2 gritty players a year on the team.

Here are the games played for the “gritty” players Dubas brought in;
Hyman: 345 (allowed to walk)
Muzzin: 187 (may never play again)
Simmonds: 113 (scratched more often than playing and Dubas was actively looking to trade him)
Ceci: 56 (allowed to walk)
Bogosian: 45 (not on the team)
Clifford: 41 (scratched more often than playing)
Ritchie: 33 (had to give up assets to get rid of him)
Lyubushkin: 31 (allowed to walk)
Foligno: 7 (allowed to walk)
ZAR: 8
NAK: 6
Marchment: 4 (traded)
Nash: 0 regular season games (allowed to walk)
Benn: 0
Harpur: 0 (allowed to walk)

Only 4 of those guys played a full season with meaningful minutes; Hyman, Muzzin, Bogosian and maybe Simmonds.

It’s one thing to acquire them, it’s another to keep and play them. There are more players to play less than half a season on this list than players who played regular time.

And at the moment only 2 of them are currently in the line in ZAR and NAK and they have 0 points in 14 games. They aren’t contributing. Muzzin, ZAR and NAK rank 2nd, 12th and 13th on that list and Muzzin isn’t even playing.

Those players may be the ones he brought in but he is also responsible for letting these gritty players go too;

Kadri
Hyman
Marchment
Komarov
Martin
Polak
Borgman
Zaitsev
Kapenan

And even other guys who hit like Gauthier, Hainsey, Timashov, Moore, Dermott etc. not to mention the other players above he let go; Ceci, Bogosian, Ritchie, Bush, Foligno, Nash, and Harpur.

So he let more go than brought them in.

Leafs Hits Ranking by GM:
Lou: 12th (5,687 hits in 246 games)
Dubas: 30th (5,595 hits in 300 games)

Dubas only ahead of Buffalo (barely) and Seattle and they have only been in the league 1 full season.

You won't get a response to this. Just hit and run posts with "narrative" sprinkled in.

 

[namttebih]

People also have to realize they just played, media availability after a game is so stupid. You just physically exerted yourself for 60 minutes, maybe you win, maybe you lose, the odds of you saying something stupid or doesn’t make sense is at an all time high.

I can’t excuse what he said. Idk why they keep rolling him out there to speak after games.

Pre game media and after morning skate makes the most sense. It’s easy to get flustered post game when you’re still processing what happened.

Because he has the A on his sweater…for some reason

 

[PeteEakins]

Dear Kyle Dubas

 

[cupcrazyman2]

Should of paid him 7M a year until there is some playoff succes past the first 2 rounds.