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Blue Jays Discussion: The official Davis Schneider Appreciation Society

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Seattle has the O's this next series and a tough divisional TEX/HOU/TEX stretch for the last 10 games of the season. Houston's got SEA/BOS/DET/BOS at the end of this month. Tampa just lost 2/3 to STL and they have a tough stretch in September. I see a lot of opportunity for the Jays to move up despite people wanting to relinquish their playoff position because they aren't "good enough".
 
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canucksfan said:
They did but other than Francis they didn't have much of a choice.
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Zack Thompson had a 2.22 ERA in 10 starts in July-August in AAA. And yeah, Francis looked like a reasonable option.

Manoah is so important long-term that to me being patient and going through the right process to get him sorted was much more important than rushing it because you hope that maybe he can be slightly better than Thompson/Francis.
 
MS said:
Zack Thompson had a 2.22 ERA in 10 starts in July-August in AAA. And yeah, Francis looked like a reasonable option.

Manoah is so important long-term that to me being patient and going through the right process to get him sorted was much more important than rushing it because you hope that maybe he can be slightly better than Thompson/Francis.
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Thompson wasn't an option. When Manoah got sent down Thompson was pitching poorly. In those months you stated his FIP is 4.76. He's been lucky recently.

Francis was the only option.
 
canucksfan said:
Thompson wasn't an option. When Manoah got sent down Thompson was pitching poorly. In those months you stated his FIP is 4.76. He's been lucky recently.

Francis was the only option.
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Manoah came back on July 7 and Thompson had a 1.84 ERA in his previous 6 starts at that point. He had already righted his season for over a month.

And I'm not saying he or Francis would have been world-beaters, but using an opener and then getting 4-5 innings out of them as a bulk guy probably gives us better results, while we actually do the right, patient thing with Manoah.
 
About time. Manoah should just stay there no more call ups until he figures his shit out and loses at least 20 pounds. Next year is a big year for him.
 
Zirakzigil said:
Makes sense with the 3 off days coming up. Having 6 starters mixed in with that is too many off days.
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True but it wouldn’t make sense to bring up him back up anyway, clearly he’s messed up mechanically and his weight is an issue as well. He went from trying to gain muscle mass to becoming a giant blueberry. He’s gotta get his weight down so maybe his mechanics can get figured out. Seems he’s not able to finish his pitches off as well as he did last year
 
TheMadHatTrick said:
Who's this era's version of Mel Queen? Send Manoah to him. RIP MQ.
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Manoah needs a head guy for sure. Too many people telling him how powerful he was. His chest got sore beating it. Strange in baseball how a guy 165lbs can throw as fast and maybe quicker than a guy 235.
I get the sense the elevator does not reach the top floor.
 
Unless he absolutely blew the doors off Manoah was always going to be the guy demoted when this stretch without off days came to an end. They couldn't send anyone else from the rotation down and they weren't going to do something silly like sending Kikuchi to the pen when he's got a league best ERA the past month of so. The only other reasonable option would have been to just cut bait on Ryu if he struggled as he's not under contract for next year but that hasn't been the case either. This day was always coming
 
Canada4Gold said:
Unless he absolutely blew the doors off Manoah was always going to be the guy demoted when this stretch without off days came to an end. They couldn't send anyone else from the rotation down and they weren't going to do something silly like sending Kikuchi to the pen when he's got a league best ERA the past month of so. The only other reasonable option would have been to just cut bait on Ryu if he struggled as he's not under contract for next year but that hasn't been the case either. This day was always coming
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If Manoah looked great and Ryu struggled I think maybe they would have used Ryu as a Trent Thornton/Mitch White bulk/long relief/blowouts guy but the reverse of that has happened so yeah, this is really all they can do.
 
MS said:
Manoah came back on July 7 and Thompson had a 1.84 ERA in his previous 6 starts at that point. He had already righted his season for over a month.

And I'm not saying he or Francis would have been world-beaters, but using an opener and then getting 4-5 innings out of them as a bulk guy probably gives us better results, while we actually do the right, patient thing with Manoah.
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As I said, his underlying numbers weren't as good. He likely gets called up and gets shelled. Francis would have made the most sense, but they weren't keen on trying him out as a starter for whatever reason.

I don't think what they did was incorrect. Alek definitely showed improvement. He did well in some starts but needs to work on his control.
 
canucksfan said:
As I said, his underlying numbers weren't as good. He likely gets called up and gets shelled. Francis would have made the most sense, but they weren't keen on trying him out as a starter for whatever reason.

I don't think what they did was incorrect. Alek definitely showed improvement. He did well in some starts but needs to work on his control.
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I doubt he gets shelled much worse than Manoah. And again, the priority here should have been taking their time to fix Manoah correctly, not getting marginal upgrades at the #5 starter spot. They called him up like a week after rookie-ball players were teeing off on him which seemed ridiculously premature ... and it turned out that it was premature because now they're having to do it again.

And did he actually show improvement? I mean, he was better than that one disaster start at the start of June but his April-May ERA was 5.46 and his July-August ERA is 4.92. It all looked much the same to me. Same control issues, same sort of battling to get through 4 or 5 innings with an inflated pitch count.
 
MS said:
I doubt he gets shelled much worse than Manoah. And again, the priority here should have been taking their time to fix Manoah correctly, not getting marginal upgrades at the #5 starter spot. They called him up like a week after rookie-ball players were teeing off on him which seemed ridiculously premature ... and it turned out that it was premature because now they're having to do it again.

And did he actually show improvement? I mean, he was better than that one disaster start at the start of June but his April-May ERA was 5.46 and his July-August ERA is 4.92. It all looked much the same to me. Same control issues, same sort of battling to get through 4 or 5 innings with an inflated pitch count.
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Last six starts before getting sent down he had an ERA of 9.14 and a FIP of 8.34

The six starts since being called up, ERA of 4.91 and FIP of 5.07. That's quite an improvement.

Thompson's FIP since June 23rd 4.51 and that's in AAA. He would do a lot worse than what Manoah did.
 
canucksfan said:
Last six starts before getting sent down he had an ERA of 9.14 and a FIP of 8.34

The six starts since being called up, ERA of 4.91 and FIP of 5.07. That's quite an improvement.

Thompson's FIP since June 23rd 4.51 and that's in AAA. He would do a lot worse than what Manoah did.
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That one start in June really skewed the numbers though, and the rest of his starts were nowhere near that bad. Likewise, his first start after his return the numbers were excellent, and they've been worse since.

I don't think his last 5 starts really look much different than a 5-start snapsnot at any point in April-May. Maybe it's a little better, but all the same problems are still basically there.

I don't like doing deep dives into AAA statistics. Getting decent results right now in AAA Thompson would probably have been the same sort of 5 innings, 5.00 ERA guy he was last year. And that's basically what they got from Manoah. Francis probably does better than that, especially if they use an opener.
 
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