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Blue Jays Discussion: The official Davis Schneider Appreciation Society

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jetsforever

jetsforever

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Dec 14, 2013
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I think these would be my ideal (realistic) final standings:

mJTRrmp.png
 
Canada4Gold

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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Lets assume worst case with Manoah and this whole hissy fit is true and continues for the foreseeable future. What's the end to this story? They Jays let him pout either until he's gotten over it and tries to be a baseball player again or until his 2 years of options runs out. If it's the latter then what? You can't let a pitcher who hasn't even tried to pitch in 2 years be on your MLB roster so you DFA him. Nobody else can do it either so he clears. You outright him to the minors where he continues to pout until he can become a milb free agent in what 4 or 5 years?

Realistically if he ever wants to see a MLB roster again he has to suck it up and try to figure it out in the minors. I would assume by the time next February comes that realization will come to him and he'll be in Spring Training trying to earn a job. I don't think he has any real trade value at this point. It's minimal at best. For what you'd get back I don't think you can let him "win" and move on. He's gotta learn the lesson here I think.
 
jetsforever

jetsforever

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Dec 14, 2013
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Canada4Gold said:
Lets assume worst case with Manoah and this whole hissy fit is true and continues for the foreseeable future. What's the end to this story? They Jays let him pout either until he's gotten over it and tries to be a baseball player again or until his 2 years of options runs out. If it's the latter then what? You can't let a pitcher who hasn't even tried to pitch in 2 years be on your MLB roster so you DFA him. Nobody else can do it either so he clears. You outright him to the minors where he continues to pout until he can become a milb free agent in what 4 or 5 years?

Realistically if he ever wants to see a MLB roster again he has to suck it up and try to figure it out in the minors. I would assume by the time next February comes that realization will come to him and he'll be in Spring Training trying to earn a job. I don't think he has any real trade value at this point. It's minimal at best. For what you'd get back I don't think you can let him "win" and move on. He's gotta learn the lesson here I think.
Click to expand...

Has anyone tried telling him that he can pitch in the majors if he just does what he did last year?
 
metafour

metafour

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Apr 6, 2008
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Kurtz said:
Griffey hit well north of .900 OPS at ages 33 and 35 and was an all-star at 34 and 37.

Moving Springer to a corner position did wonders for his durability - doing the same for Trout may pay dividends as well.
Click to expand...

Griffey was a negative fWAR player every season post-2004 except for 2005. His "All Star" appearances were a joke - he hit for a 116 wRC+ with comically negative defense at 37. He made it in due to popularity, not because he was actually still one of the best players in the league. Even if you want to completely ignore his defensive collapse which killed his fWAR, he had just one season of hitting over 120 wRC+ in his last 7 seasons as a player. In his final 5 seasons he had just one season of over 100 wRC+ hitting.

I'm not suggesting that Trout will collapse as hard as Griffey did, but you need to properly understand that his yearly salary demands that he play at a truly ELITE level to make it worth it - and missing significant portions of the season makes that impossible. Trout is owed $35 mill per year up until 2030 and he has actually already failed to play up to that dollar value in 3 of the past 4 seasons, due to injury. You are talking about a massive risk, because if he is already struggling to break even at $35 mill per season, why would I project that he's actually going to be more healthy as he gets even older?

The Springer example is funny because he is "healthier", and yet his play has actually collapsed regardless. So you aren't really selling anything if Springer is your example lol. Springer already looks like a bad contract.
 
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ShaneFalco

ShaneFalco

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metafour said:
Griffey was a negative fWAR player every season post-2004 except for 2005. His "All Star" appearances were a joke - he hit for a 116 wRC+ with comically negative defense at 37. He made it in due to popularity, not because he was actually still one of the best players in the league. Even if you want to completely ignore his defensive collapse which killed his fWAR, he had just one season of hitting over 120 wRC+ in his last 7 seasons as a player. In his final 5 seasons he had just one season of over 100 wRC+ hitting.

I'm not suggesting that Trout will collapse as hard as Griffey did, but you need to properly understand that his yearly salary demands that he play at a truly ELITE level to make it worth it - and missing significant portions of the season makes that impossible. Trout is owed $35 mill per year up until 2030 and he has actually already failed to play up to that dollar value in 3 of the past 4 seasons, due to injury. You are talking about a massive risk, because if he is already struggling to break even at $35 mill per season, why would I project that he's actually going to be more healthy as he gets even older?

The Springer example is funny because he is "healthier", and yet his play has actually collapsed regardless. So you aren't really selling anything if Springer is your example lol. Springer already looks like a bad contract.
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But Trout would be so nice here.....for the 15 games he'd play :)
 

TheTotalPackage

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Sep 14, 2006
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Seath The Scaleless said:
I thought for sure the game was going to end after the Mariners loaded the bases with no outs in the 9th

Angels can still pull through here!
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Me too. Unbelievable they couldn't push a run across.

And I was also reminded that Loup still is pitching in the league. Totally forgot about him. Great job by him to get out of that jam.

Julio Rodriguez is blossoming into a superstar right before our eyes.
 
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Bjindaho

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Jun 12, 2006
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If Toronto was willling to eat the entire Trout contract, they could ask for something like Rada, Kochanowicz and Ward with almost certainty that LAA would say yes.
 
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Hoverhand

Hoverhand

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Dec 6, 2015
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Bjindaho said:
If Toronto was willling to eat the entire Trout contract, they could ask for something like Rada, Kochanowicz and Ward with almost certainty that LAA would say yes.
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Lol, that trade would create more Dodger fans than Fernando Valenzuela did.
 
Kurtz

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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metafour said:
Griffey was a negative fWAR player every season post-2004 except for 2005. His "All Star" appearances were a joke - he hit for a 116 wRC+ with comically negative defense at 37. He made it in due to popularity, not because he was actually still one of the best players in the league. Even if you want to completely ignore his defensive collapse which killed his fWAR, he had just one season of hitting over 120 wRC+ in his last 7 seasons as a player. In his final 5 seasons he had just one season of over 100 wRC+ hitting.

I'm not suggesting that Trout will collapse as hard as Griffey did, but you need to properly understand that his yearly salary demands that he play at a truly ELITE level to make it worth it - and missing significant portions of the season makes that impossible. Trout is owed $35 mill per year up until 2030 and he has actually already failed to play up to that dollar value in 3 of the past 4 seasons, due to injury. You are talking about a massive risk, because if he is already struggling to break even at $35 mill per season, why would I project that he's actually going to be more healthy as he gets even older?

The Springer example is funny because he is "healthier", and yet his play has actually collapsed regardless. So you aren't really selling anything if Springer is your example lol. Springer already looks like a bad contract.
Click to expand...

Let's take defense out of it, because as mentioned, Trout would play LF/RF/DH here, and whatever his future range limitations would be, would be more than made up for with Varsho at CF.

Griffey's OPS after his age 32 season:

33: .936
34: .864
35: .946
36: .802
37: 869
38: .778
39: .735
40: .454

Now you may conjecture that he was a multiple all-star during this time only due to his popularity, which may be partially true, but I do see a couple of seasons in there that are very much worthy of all-star selection for any player.

The Springer example is merely a demonstration of how much one's durability could be improved by moving to a less stressful position. I don't love using 1-player samples mind you, and I don't know if we have data that conclusively links moving off CF to a corner as tangibly improving one's durability...but intuitively it makes sense.

And I think that it's a given in any Trout trade that the Angels would be retaining some money.
 
TheMadHatTrick

TheMadHatTrick

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Nov 2, 2008
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For the lovers of using small, arbitrary sample sizes, isolated metrics, and DRS to measure player value, Kirk has a 127 WRC+ and .812 OPS in the second half of the year to go along with 16 DRS for the season. Forget the rest of the year and he's been an All Star in 2023!
 
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Eyedea

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
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TheMadHatTrick said:
For the lovers of using small, arbitrary sample sizes, isolated metrics, and DRS to measure player value, Kirk has a 127 WRC+ and .812 OPS in the second half of the year to go along with 16 DRS for the season. Forget the rest of the year and he's been an All Star in 2023!
Click to expand...

Isn't that what you did to try and prove that Moreno is better than Varsho and all of our catchers?
 
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Seath The Scaleless

Seath The Scaleless

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Oct 15, 2014
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Also, we need to find out what Trea Turner did on the night of Aug 4 when he was sitting at 10 HR and .656 OPS, and have our stars do the same thing.

16 HR since, including 11 in his last 13 games. Insane run.
 
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