Blue Jays Discussion: The official Davis Schneider Appreciation Society

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They needed a bat at the deadline and didn't come through. I don't hold Schneider blameless, but losing Manoah, Vladdy's power issues....and not just him, Kirk, Springer........Jansen and Chapman injuries (although Chapman wasn't do anything at the plate). Just feels there's something missing with this team

I thought so too but clearly it wouldnt have made a difference.

The best wRC+ in the league since the deadline? Davis Schneider.


So the Jays added the best hitter in the league since the deadline to their lineup and it had no material difference in the win column. One guy wouldnt have made a difference. The Jays have deep lineup concerns. Outside of Bichette, pretty much every core lineup piece has been average and even Bo has been bad since the deadline;

wRC+ since August 1st;
Schneider: 237
Belt: 182 - injured
Jansen: 144 - injured
Springer: 139
Biggio: 130
Kiermaier: 119
Guerrero Jr: 95
Varsho: 95
Espinal: 94
Kirk: 89
Chapman: 48
Merrifield: 46
Bichette: 31

Obviously injuries to Belt and Jansen suck. Missing Chapman and Bo for periods doesnt help either but all season Vladdy, Kirk, Chapman and Springer have gone from all stars to below average to slightly above average. Whit went from near all star to unplayable. When your 4 best hitters in wRC+ are 3 guys from Buffalo (Schneider, Clement and Horwitz) and Brandon Belt, you are doomed. Only guys who have been consistent all season have been Belt and Kiermaier.

That cannot happen. The offense may waste very good seasons from our pitching (though not recently) and defense.

Also here are the best bats to be traded at the deadline by wRC+;

Mark Canha: 134
Josh Bell: 119
Jake Burger: 118
Tommy Pham: 108
Jeimer Candelario: 108
Kike Hernandez: 104
Nicky Lopez: 90
Carlos Santana: 85
Ahmed Rosiaro: 71
Randal Grichuk: 66

None of these guys would have made a difference.
 
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I thought so too but clearly it wouldnt have made a difference.

The best wRC+ in the league since the deadline? Davis Schneider.


So the Jays added the best hitter in the league since the deadline to their lineup and it had no material difference in the win column. One guy wouldnt have made a difference. The Jays have deep lineup concerns. Outside of Bichette, pretty much every core lineup piece has been average and even Bo has been bad since the deadline;

wRC+ since August 1st;
Schneider: 237
Belt: 182 - injured
Jansen: 144 - injured
Springer: 139
Biggio: 130
Kiermaier: 119
Guerrero Jr: 95
Varsho: 95
Espinal: 94
Kirk: 89
Chapman: 48
Merrifield: 46
Bichette: 31

Obviously injuries to Belt and Jansen suck. Missing Chapman and Bo for periods doesnt help either but all season Vladdy, Kirk, Chapman and Springer have go from all stars to below average to slightly above average. Whit went from near all star to unplayable. When your 4 best hitters in wRC+ are 3 guys from Buffalo (Schneider, Clement and Horwitz) and Brandon Belt, you are doomed. Only guys who have been consistent all season have been Belt and Kiermaier.

That cannot happen. The offense may waste very good seasons from our pitching (though not recently) and defense.

Also here are the best bats to be traded at the deadline by wRC+;

Mark Canha: 134
Josh Bell: 119
Jake Burger: 118
Tommy Pham: 108
Jeimer Candelario: 108
Kike Hernandez: 104
Nicky Lopez: 90
Carlos Santana: 85
Ahmed Rosiaro: 71
Randal Grichuk: 66

None of these guys would have made a difference.
Good points!!
I wanted Grich too lol

I thought so too but clearly it wouldnt have made a difference.

The best wRC+ in the league since the deadline? Davis Schneider.


So the Jays added the best hitter in the league since the deadline to their lineup and it had no material difference in the win column. One guy wouldnt have made a difference. The Jays have deep lineup concerns. Outside of Bichette, pretty much every core lineup piece has been average and even Bo has been bad since the deadline;

wRC+ since August 1st;
Schneider: 237
Belt: 182 - injured
Jansen: 144 - injured
Springer: 139
Biggio: 130
Kiermaier: 119
Guerrero Jr: 95
Varsho: 95
Espinal: 94
Kirk: 89
Chapman: 48
Merrifield: 46
Bichette: 31

Obviously injuries to Belt and Jansen suck. Missing Chapman and Bo for periods doesnt help either but all season Vladdy, Kirk, Chapman and Springer have go from all stars to below average to slightly above average. Whit went from near all star to unplayable. When your 4 best hitters in wRC+ are 3 guys from Buffalo (Schneider, Clement and Horwitz) and Brandon Belt, you are doomed. Only guys who have been consistent all season have been Belt and Kiermaier.

That cannot happen. The offense may waste very good seasons from our pitching (though not recently) and defense.

Also here are the best bats to be traded at the deadline by wRC+;

Mark Canha: 134
Josh Bell: 119
Jake Burger: 118
Tommy Pham: 108
Jeimer Candelario: 108
Kike Hernandez: 104
Nicky Lopez: 90
Carlos Santana: 85
Ahmed Rosiaro: 71
Randal Grichuk: 66

None of these guys would have made a difference.
Geez those jays stats are brutal
 
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If Vladdy could ever get his fitness is line with the wear and tear of being a 3B, it would open up so many possibilities.. think the way they accepted his move to 1st so early in his career may have been a negative. Vlad's best year seemed to be the year he was isolated from outside influence. Look at guys like Freeman and Olson, no coincidence the 2 best teams in baseball have the best 1B. You need production and a guy who can pick a ball from the dirt consistently. Sign Vlad Sr. as the hitting coach and bring Donte back as an advisor.

Schneider has earned his spot for next year, he is every ounce and every ounce again of what many of our depth guys should have been.
You really want Vlad Sr. teaching guys how to hit balls 6 inches off the plate?? lol
 
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Listening to the radio on the way home and they were talking a lot of jays and kind of the fall of Vladdy. All that to say they were looking at projected zips which are out for next year. Vladdy has a projected war of 2.9 for next season. Down a full point from this years projections. That’s brutal. What’s crazy is zips projects Schneider to be a 3 war player. Better overall than Vladdy. That’s insanity. Vladdy is getting close to costing more than his value which is also an issue

I’m also wondering. Do you guys think they qualify Espinal this off season? I think they’ll try and trade him for anything but I have a feeling he’s just released. Shockingly I think Biggio has taken his spot.
 
Not too beat a dead horse BUT I think our GM Russ needs to explain to the fans why these hitting coaches and the strategy hitting coach were not replaced months ago. Dumbfounding.
 
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Orelvis Grand Slam, and Barger hit a HR tonight too. Martinez has been on fire recently. He's slashing .326/.392/.652/1.044 in September with 4 BB and 2 K in his last 4 games.
 
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Listening to the radio on the way home and they were talking a lot of jays and kind of the fall of Vladdy. All that to say they were looking at projected zips which are out for next year. Vladdy has a projected war of 2.9 for next season. Down a full point from this years projections. That’s brutal. What’s crazy is zips projects Schneider to be a 3 war player. Better overall than Vladdy. That’s insanity. Vladdy is getting close to costing more than his value which is also an issue

I’m also wondering. Do you guys think they qualify Espinal this off season? I think they’ll try and trade him for anything but I have a feeling he’s just released. Shockingly I think Biggio has taken his spot.
Between Espy, Biggio, Whit......someone needs to go
 
Between Espy, Biggio, Whit......someone needs to go

Espinal is replaceable with Clement and Schneider both clearly capable of being fulltime middle infielders, IMO.

Right now the most glaring issue is behind home plate - Kirk is horrendous back there, and it's even more apparent now that Jansen's done for the season.

He's hit into more double plays than I can count, primarily because he's just so damn slow on the basepaths.

Jays traded the wrong catcher to Arizona.
 
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Jays traded the wrong catcher to Arizona.
If the Jays started Moreno this year, 80% of these Jays threads would be filled with complaints about how Berrios, Kikuchi, and Bassitt are struggling half the time and furthermore every goddamn flyball that Varsho has tracked down in LF has sailed over Gurriel's head.

Kirk has completely forgotten how to hit the ball in the air but all of Prospectus' framing metrics say he is infinitely better at framing to the point where he's a substantially more valuable player.
 
If the Jays started Moreno this year, 80% of these Jays threads would be filled with complaints about how Berrios, Kikuchi, and Bassitt are struggling half the time and furthermore every goddamn flyball that Varsho has tracked down in LF has sailed over Gurriel's head.

Kirk has completely forgotten how to hit the ball in the air but all of Prospectus' framing metrics say he is infinitely better at framing to the point where he's a substantially more valuable player.

Yeah I saw the same report on Kirk's positive defense/framing numbers, but I still feel like the Jays should've moved him out when his value peaked after last season.

And to his credit his bat still has some pop in it, he can even leg out some doubles on occasion but once he's on base it's a gamble, one the Jays have lost plenty of times. Especially when a certain coach decides he doesn't want to take him out for a pinch runner.
 
Yeah saying Kirk is horrendous behind the plate is incredibly misleading. He's one of the best defensive catchers in all of baseball. Offence has taken a step back but Moreno isn't much better (in fact he's hit into the 4th most double plays this year).

And if baserunning is the biggest gripe, Moreno also has one of the lowest baserunning run values in the league.
 
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Moreno: 98 wRC+
Kirk: 95 wRC+

Yeah, that's the big reason why this team is a complete shit-show offensively.

What's funny is that even though Moreno is a plus athlete, he's actually graded as -6.1 basertunning this year. That isn't much better than Kirk. He also hits into a ton a double plays.

This FO needs to answer to why/what is the cause of seemingly everyone on offense regressing significantly at the exact same time. Not these miniscule decisions that wouldn't have made any ounce of difference. Vladimir Guerrero batting 3rd all year long and hitting like a replacement-level player all season is probably 25x a bigger "issue" this season than trading the wrong catcher.
 
You really want Vlad Sr. teaching guys how to hit balls 6 inches off the plate?? lol
I don't think Vlad Sr would be a good coach based on his personality but he was a lot more than just a guy who was hitting bad pitches. He was super aggressive and very hard to strikeout. He was a guy hitting around 34HR on average and he had only 74 strikeouts on average every 162 games. In his prime he often had more BB than SO. He was pretty good at hitting doubles too and his OBP was often over 400. Also had pretty good speed on base before his back problems in the mid 2k.
 
Moreno: 98 wRC+
Kirk: 95 wRC+
Yeah, that's the big reason why this team is a complete shit-show offensively.
What's funny is that even though Moreno is a plus athlete, he's actually graded as -6.1 basertunning this year. That isn't much better than Kirk. He also hits into a ton a double plays.
This FO needs to answer to why/what is the cause of seemingly everyone on offense regressing significantly at the exact same time. Not these miniscule decisions that wouldn't have made any ounce of difference. Vladimir Guerrero batting 3rd all year long and hitting like a replacement-level player all season is probably 25x a bigger "issue" this season than trading the wrong catcher.
It's Moreno 1st complete season. Kirk is a years and some months older and it's his 2nd complete season. For this year it doesn't make a difference but i'd be more comfortable with Moreno moving forward. Kirk has a lot of big flaws in his game. He is one of the slowest runner without power i've ever seen and anyone who think this is not a major issue is out for launch imo.
 
It's Moreno 1st complete season. Kirk is a years and some months older and it's his 2nd complete season. For this year it doesn't make a difference but i'd be more comfortable with Moreno moving forward. Kirk has a lot of big flaws in his game. He is one of the slowest runner without power i've ever seen and anyone who think this is not a major issue is out for launch imo.

We're talking about moves that were made or not made as it relate to the team's problems THIS SEASON, and now you're floating off into some pointless future debate. Replacing Kirk with Moreno changes nothing for this team right now.

By the way, Moreno also doesn't hit for much power, and in fact Kirk's career ISO (.132) is actually right in line with Moreno's ISO this season (.131). So once again I'll repeat: the question for the FO is what was the cause of Kirk's massive regression this year. He was a fat, slow tub of lard in 2022 and 2021 as well - and he was a 129 wRC+ hitter last season.

Kirk: grounded into 20 double plays (in 374 plate appearances)
Moreno: grounded into 14 double plays (in 326 plate appearances)

Even the double plays aren't some massive swing. Scale Moreno up into 375 plate appearances and he's likely up to ~16 double plays. Just 4 fewer than Kirk.
 
It's Moreno 1st complete season. Kirk is a years and some months older and it's his 2nd complete season. For this year it doesn't make a difference but i'd be more comfortable with Moreno moving forward. Kirk has a lot of big flaws in his game. He is one of the slowest runner without power i've ever seen and anyone who think this is not a major issue is out for launch imo.

Moreno in his first full year in the majors has only amplified the concerns that were brought up last year in the system. He has even worse launch angle issues than Kirk which greatly limits his power, he doesn't have great plate discipline, he's been a poor pitch framer, and he's only hitting lefties well. Plus he's dealt with a (non-throwing arm) shoulder injury this year. I want to say this is three years in a row now that he's hit the IL with something.
 
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It's Moreno 1st complete season. Kirk is a years and some months older and it's his 2nd complete season. For this year it doesn't make a difference but i'd be more comfortable with Moreno moving forward. Kirk has a lot of big flaws in his game. He is one of the slowest runner without power i've ever seen and anyone who think this is not a major issue is out for launch imo.
You are missing the part where the two players had different trade values. You can't simply say that we should have traded the other one for the same package when there's no reason to believe that Kirk would have brought back a decent outfielder.
 
Between Espy, Biggio, Whit......someone needs to go
Whit is a free agent so I think he's likely gone either way. But even with him out I wonder if they move off of Espy. I think Biggio can of took the reigns. I don't see us bringing Chapman back either so we will need a whole new infield for next season.
 
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