Yeah genius, tell that to Vegas that won the cup last year and are top of the league this year....get with the times, it's not like it used to be at all. You need more than just drafting high and I gave you 2 good examples and there are more...Edmonton says hi. You tankers are limited in your hockey knowledge and you sound like a bad imitation of "Bill and Ted"...hey bro, we need to tank bro...but duuuude, that high pick dude. Talk about a one track unimaginative mind lmao. That's all you guys have.
HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread
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The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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It sure as shit helps Vegas when a top 10 dman in the league signs with them, the best 2way winger in the league only wants to play for them, and a star center essentially forces his way there. Yes high picks aren't everything and good drafting is more important, but the vast majority of cup winners have at least one key player who was a top 5 pick who they drafted.
- Jan 18, 2022
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Did Vegas have good players when it won the Cup?
Does Montreal have similarly capable players? Where, when, how can Montreal acquire some such players.
Vegas is my favourite team-building model. I don't see Kent Hughes operating like a wheeler-and-dealer, do you?
Pietrangelo sure, but I don't think that was luck: Vegas offered the big bucks.
Stone was traded there because Vegas offered the biggest bounty.
Eichel was ready to go anywhere, Vegas made the winning bid.
I know what you mean in that it's an attractive franchise but it isn't uniquely attractive.
HuGort
Registered User
If wouldn't have lost Dach Habs be holding a playoff position. Despite all the scoring slumps and young defense
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
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-How do you know other teams didn't offer the big bucks either? St Louis offered him 800k less for an extra year. I remember when the Sharks offered 13 million for Tavares and he declined, he didn't even answer our calls to see what we would offer.
-They didn't though, Dorion waited too long and turned down bigger offers, which was well documented. Teams were hesitant because he wasn't guaranteed an extension.
-Sabres made it clear they weren't trading him within the conference and only a couple teams were able to take on such a contract and I believe only Vegas and Calgary had the assets as well.
It really is uniquely attractive though. Everyone wants to play there and is signing for less to stick around. The tax advantage is almost unfair.
And who's that top 5 pick they drafted? You guys are making my point for me, they didn't tank and traded for pretty much everyone, hence its not only about drafting.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
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You could have just said you're too lazy to read my entire post. They signed a top 10 dman who wanted to be with them, got a star player for some coupons, and were the only fit for a star center who wanted out. If this happens to us then sure we don't need any top 5 picks. You'd have to go back to 2011 to see a team that won a cup without drafting a core player with a top 5 pick, and even then they signed the best free agent in NHL history. It's significantly more common to win cups with at least one of your core players being drafted top 5, you aren't making any valid points when you keep ignoring this. Nobody said it's only top picks, but they are arguably the most important asset to have to win cups.
Did read your stupid post. Your just not smart enough to understand the point that it takes more than drafting which you keep making my point. I can say it in French if you like. I wouldn't of made this snide comment if you were mature enough to not call me names and have a conversation.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
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When you blatantly disregard how acquiring Pietrangelo/Eichel/Stone for little to no value so quickly is unprecedented and makes up for the lack of top 5 picks, you didn't read my post properly as you completely missed the point. You asked "Who's the top 5 pick they drafted" when I made it very clear how their situation is unique given how they acquired Pietrangelo/Eichel/Stone. We haven't been able to add one player even remotely close to those guys in forever yet Vegas added 3 of them in 2 years. Even if you think this tactic is feasible, you should voice your displeasure for HuGO not making these kinds of moves to put us into that cup-contending position like Vegas has.
Also if you're going to say I'm not a smart person, the least you can do is use the proper form of your/you're.
DAChampion
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- May 28, 2011
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Las Vegas has continuously and gradually accumulated good assets. They were actually in a position to take on Pietrangelo, Eichel, and Stone and their cap hits.
You can argue that Hughes is getting there, bit it remains to be seen how he'll leverage his wealth of third line forwards and second pairing dmen. It's not easy to flip four bars of silver for one bar of gold, but at least he'll have four bars of silver.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
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Yes I'm deflecting on a type which is why I wrote that paragraph beforehandYes, deflect on a typo
salbutera
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- Sep 10, 2019
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Vegas not only has tax advantage but low cost luxury lifestyle. Mansions in brand new state of the art developments like Henderson cost a pittance and have top notch education & healthcare systems for players w families
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
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DAChampion
Registered User
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It seems like in Montreal or Toronto you need over a million dollars for a mediocre house. Even median hockey players will find that prohibitive.
salbutera
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the valiant effort
settle down, bud
- Apr 17, 2017
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I wonder if there’s something about Vegas’s history since 2017 that differentiates them from the rest of the league.
Twisted Sinister
Living in Your Head Rent Free
- Oct 8, 2014
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Jack Eichel is a joke to you?
You didn't even read what I said. That, or you're limited in your reading comprehension, which appears to be 3rd grade level (Sorry to any 3rd graders I may have insulted with that comment). I said elite talent is the primary predictor of long-term success, not the only one. Feel free to do the eyeball version of taking the wax out of your ears rather than continuing to play your stupid tape recording. "Oh yeah, Edmonton, don't forget Edmonton!"
Elite talent + Competent management win cups. Without one or the other, it's almost impossible to win a cup. Boston and St Louis are the only ones to do it without elite firepower (I mean, Chara was a thing, but still). But continue to enjoy your short term dopamine hit wins that will have you end up as a Mid team competing with dozens of teams that have elite talent. I'm sure it'll work out as it always does for us.
And Bill and Ted is awesome.
And feel free to get the f*** out of the tank thread.
Twisted Sinister
Living in Your Head Rent Free
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Logic won't work on this guy. Some people just don't understand short term pain for long term gains. Also, the stupidest people are often the ones that imply others are stupid or don't understand things. He represents many Hab fans that can't see past the hand in front of their face.
Those fans are the enablers of our mediocrity. They are the enemies of our success. And they will deserve what they get when we're mediocre again.
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Kobe Armstrong
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- Jul 26, 2011
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Why are you so confident that Gorton is the guy to turn it around then, when the only reason New York is a contender now is because Panarin and Fox both forced their way to NYC? Slaf + Reinbacher is looking like a Lafreniere + Kakko esque haul and we couldn't even bring PLD home, there won't be another young star who wants to come to Montreal anytime soon it seems
Maybe another recipe for success is playing for a desirable market, and that's why Canadian teams never win anymore. Perhaps Montreal should lean into the night life angle a little bit harder, and let Russians back on the team.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
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I never said that I was confident and PLD is nowhere the caliber of the trio the Knights got.
Ok so if you’re against the tank you should be advocating to go all in and try to get players of that caliber.
Considering that's like 300K in US money
, Idon't think it's that prohibitive...If you're against the tank, it doesn't mean that there is no actual rebuild. Rebuild does not personify 'Tank' at all.
I'm not for aggressively tanking à la CHI because it can take a long time to rebuild that way and it is far from certain that they can land a future DeBrincat, or Dach, with future draft picks.
One player -- Bedard, in this case -- does not a team make.
IMO, Hughes, even with so-called 3rd line forwards and 2nd pairing Ds, given the quality picks he is accumulating for 2025, can package a deal to land a youngish, bluechip, impact forward in the 2025 offseason.
Apart from a cheap Matheson as a veteran player to flip in some trade scenario, there admittedly isn't enough established, veteran assets with the required impact to land a youngish, bluechip, impact forward from a team competing NOW for a Cup.
To make a deal à la Nieuwendyk for Iginla, you need a Nieuwendyk in the first place, but, as shown when Hughes traded Romanov for the piece he didn't have that was required to land Dach, he can acquire the Nieuwendyk from a third party before flipping it, along with Matheson, for an Iginla type player.
Stockpiled first round and second round draft picks, along with quality prospects can serve to pry a Nieuwendyk type player belonging to a team that is transitioning from a closing Cup window to an outright rebuild.
Hughes will also have the Cap space to taken a bad contract in the trade for an Iginla type in order to enable the team to fit our Nieuwendyk trade value under their Cap shorter term as they continue to drop dead weight contracts for the medium and long term.
We can look beyond what Montreal currently has as players to trade since those players can be acquired from another team in a 3-way trade scenario.
Our lack of imagination shouldn't limit the possibilities open to Hughes who actually has a reputation as a shark..
Hughes refused to pony up what present players and futures were needed to land PLD. That does not make it being unable to even bring PLD home.
Kobe Armstrong
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- Jul 26, 2011
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I just think any argument like "every cup winner since X year has had at least X # of players drafted in the top-X" is borderline ignoramus
How many teams don't have a player drafted in the top-5 or 10? Most teams have at least 1 top 10 pick within the past 10 years. Of course one of these teams wins the cups every year because every team fits the criteria, meanwhile we ignore the other 30 teams that fit the criteria and don't win the cup
How many teams don't have a player drafted in the top-5 or 10? Most teams have at least 1 top 10 pick within the past 10 years. Of course one of these teams wins the cups every year because every team fits the criteria, meanwhile we ignore the other 30 teams that fit the criteria and don't win the cup
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