HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think we’ll see a repeat of last year and start tanking in December timeframe. Our D is bad and our offense is limited. At some point it’ll catch up to us.

 

[Ezpz]

scoring 50 goals while sucking for 55 mins out of 60 most nights will not help the team, know what I mean? You guys have to stop thinking Caufield is a franchise player. Caufield without suzuki would do nothing, its facts and most experts think the same. This team would be much better with a 35 goal scorer 6'3 center with 90 pts than a Caufield.


leafs wouldve won the cup in 2021 and 2022 if it wasnt of mtl and tampa and i hate them more than any team in the league. mtl had a very average team in 2021 playoffs, god price won the series against the leafs AND vegas

Analytically speaking the Habs dominated Vegas.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Caufield without suzuki would do nothing, its facts and most experts think the same.

It's crazy just how wrong you always are.

Do yourself a favor and go through the Habs scores since Feb 10th 2022 and you'll see Suzuki only assisted around 1/3 of Caufield's goals.

Again using appeal to authority, but this time its even worst as what you state isn't even a fact. Oh the experts agree on that, bwhahaha, what a friggin joke.

 

[BigM2]

Who would have thought that 10 games in, the line of Gally, Monahan & Pearson would have as many total goals so far (12) as the other 11 forwards combined (also 12)?

 

[The Real Timo]

So since the tank thread is alive does it mean we’re still tanking? I need a direction.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

So since the tank thread is alive does it mean we’re still tanking? I need a direction.

We will tank don't worry. When Allen and Monty goes back to normal we are going in hard.

 

[McGees]

So since the tank thread is alive does it mean we’re still tanking? I need a direction.

Probably 4 years of no man’s land tbh.

 

[SlafySZN]

Where did I write I'd take Caufield over Drai?

You said Caufield does nothing without Suzuki, yet Suzuki only assisted 21 of Caufield's 57 goals.

It's a shame the mods don't see you're trolling.

First you said "Caufield only scores on PP and 3vs3" = completely false.

Then it's "Caufield does nothing at 5vs5" = false again, as he's top 5 in G60

Then it's "Caufield does nothing without Suzuki" = false, Caufield scored 63% of his goals without Suzuki

Get this, there are more players who assisted on Caufield's goals (23) than Suzuki has assists on Caufield's goals. I know you're not too quick on the uptake, which is why you resort to your weak and pathetic appeals to authority, so I will explain it to you: this means Caufield can score with pretty much anyone you put him with. Even Drouin had assists playing with Caufield.

Second guy with most assists on Caufield goals is Dach with 7. That's also how many goals Cole has scored unassisted.

Also, interesting stats since this person wanna talk about Draisaitl: Caufield and Draisaitl got the same number of goals at 5 on 5 last season, 17. Caufield played 46 games, Draisaitl 80.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Also, interesting stats since this person wanna talk about Draisaitl: Caufield and Draisaitl got the same number of goals at 5 on 5 last season, 17. Caufield played 46 games, Draisaitl 80.

Thank you. So funny.

Guy says he's an expert and I have no valid arguments, yet he keeps writing falsehoods. He's like a knockoff of the Wish version of a hockey expert.

17 in 46 vs 17 in 80 is staggering.

And 23 players assisting on Caufield's 50 assisted goals is also staggering. It's actually crazy as a distribution. It's the sort of distribution you'll see on McDavid' assists over two seasons.

 

[Lshap]

leafs wouldve won the cup in 2021 and 2022 if it wasnt of mtl and tampa and i hate them more than any team in the league. mtl had a very average team in 2021 playoffs, god price won the series against the leafs AND vegas

Leafs 'would've won' if they were the better team than Tampa, Florida, Montreal, Columbus, Boston. They were the worse team, so they lost.

Toronto's sad playoff record is worth pouting over, but looking for cheap excuses for their gutless roster is the saddest thing of all. They deserved to lose because year after year after year they weren't good enough.

 

[salbutera]

Appeal to authority? you're one of the biggest joke here lmfao, you take caufield 45 goals before a guy like draisaitl with 40 goals 120 points? LMFAO! I am considered an expert in hockey and you are not, therefore you got no valid arguments to evaluate a player with precision. You should see the amount of messages that ive received saying im right about Caufield. Here is an example to help you out a little bit. Draisaitl-Draisaitl-Draisaitl VS Caufield-Caufield-Caufield. Which line has complete players, 1v1 battle players, vision players, size players, hockey IQ players?

Part of team building process is assembly of multiple elements to help a team eventually win - Caufield like Draisaitl is part of a winning roster puzzle piece.

The reason the Leafs have not achieved playoff success, is they have 4-big puzzle pieces at fwd but are missing complementary pieces to complete the puzzle.

Hockey always has and will remain the ultimate TEAM game - consisting of multiple parts that need to come together to win

 

[Jaynki]

Size plays a role.

For Caufield, size plays a role.

For Slaf, its a fool trap.

 

[angusyoung]

Tank thread right?

 

[sandviper]

We're not even 10 games in, Jaffy. Haven't you learned your lesson from previous years? They could still very much end-up bottom 5.

Remember that season where we were like 99% certain to make the playoffs, undefeated for like a dozen games going into November then Price goes down and that was it? Pretty sure that was the year also when Plekanec said we’re more than just Carey Price.

Expect the unexpected.

Though in fairness, I do think we are too good to be bottom-5 right now, when we start selling, we’ll be a shit show for sure.

 

[morhilane]

So since the tank thread is alive does it mean we’re still tanking? I need a direction.

The direction is .500 hockey (until more injuries). This is tanking, just tanking outside a top 10 pick.

 

[First Line]

Drafting poorly and burning through dubious prospects by rushing them won't make it end faster either.

We have very little to look toward -- not one prospect who has PPG upside.

A successful rebuild takes the same amount of time as a failed one. If you fail you simply have to decide if you do it again.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Remember that season where we were like 99% certain to make the playoffs, undefeated for like a dozen games going into November then Price goes down and that was it? Pretty sure that was the year also when Plekanec said we’re more than just Carey Price.

Expect the unexpected.

Though in fairness, I do think we are too good to be bottom-5 right now, when we start selling, we’ll be a shit show for sure.

That was [cue dramatic echoing voice] 'The Turning Point' season for Bergevin.

The flubbing trying to replace Price. Therrien smashing the lines, going back into shell mode hockey. Then the team crashes. Then followed the "It's on me" presser around January 20th 2016. Therrien stays, team keeps losing. Subban gets injured. Eller gets traded. Subban gets traded. Serge gets drafted. Radu gets signed. Therriens drunkenly blabs about Pac being the worst Cap in history. Therrien gets fired. Julien hired. The team stinks it up in the playoffs. Markov, Radu and Emelin play cards on the flight back home and then everything implodes.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I shat on the bobrov hire immediately and was told it was a development problem in new York. He is just the worst head scout in the league. The rangers would be a dynasty with a real head scout because all the free agents go there and top guys force their way there.

Taking a guy like Slaf first overall was a massive red flag. There's no way we're building a contender with these scouts. Hughes may be a great gm but this isn't a league you can trade and sign your way into a cup.

I'm naively crossing my fingers that the silver lining in all of this is Hughes's talent at persuasion, that he'll end-up snatching a big UFA fish, even maybe one of McDrai, which would compensate for Gorton's bad hires.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

[MOD] Caufield does nothing to create space, create plays and take away pucks.

Let's address your other ridiculous assertions.

Now, outside of Suzuki, Caufield has probably the toughest strenght of opposition of all other forwards on the team, through last season and the present season. He's second for averaged 5vs5 TOI.

Since the start of last season, among habs forwards (16) with 500 minutes of TOI or more, Caufield is 6th in fewest giveaways/60, 5th in most takeaways/60, 1st in rush attempts/60, 4th in rebounds created/60, his GF/GA differential/60 is the same as Dach, even though Caufield spent more time on the top line.

Caufield is also 4th for fewest hits taken/60, because he's elusive and agile.

 

[NORiculous]

Let's address your other ridiculous assertions.

Now, outside of Suzuki, Caufield has probably the toughest strenght of opposition of all other forwards on the team, through last season and the present season. He's second for averaged 5vs5 TOI.

Since the start of last season, among habs forwards (16) with 500 minutes of TOI or more, Caufield is 6th in fewest giveaways/60, 5th in most takeaways/60, 1st in rush attempts/60, 4th in rebounds created/60, his GF/GA differential/60 is the same as Dach, even though Caufield spent more time on the top line.

Caufield is also 4th for fewest hits taken/60, because he's elusive and agile.

I haven’t checked for this year but last year, RHP and Suzuki had tougher opposition. Caufield also had much much more OZ starts more than any other forward.

Having that many OZ starts, it’s normal to have higher GF/GA differential/60 and the likes.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I haven’t checked for this year but last year, RHP and Suzuki had tougher opposition. Caufield also had much much more OZ starts more than any other forward.

Having that many OZ starts, it’s normal to have higher GF/GA differential/60 and the likes.

I said outside of Suzuki, so i only missed RHP. Also, RHP barely breaks the 500 minutes minimum i applied, as he has 550.

It still invalidates what he wrote. I'm well aware CC is 60%+ in ozs, but the way the poster I responded to framed it, Caufield would be dead last in all those categories.

Also, OZS doesn't impact rush attempts per 60, which Caufield is 1st.

OZS also doesn't significantly impacts giveaways and takeaways, nor hits taken in Caufield's favor. It's actually the opposite, especially considering the difference in size between forwards and defensemen. He's more likely to get hit and pokechecked by being deep in the Oz, rather than high in the Dz

 

[NORiculous]

definitely agree that it's not "either/or"... but i think building a culture of excellence that both supports players playing to their potential and committing to putting the team results ahead of individual stats is a lot harder than many imagine.

we just endured a decade of a management group that treated it as an either/or proposition and wanted to stamp out all individual excellence in some misguided Karakter narrative... that approach sucks, to be sure. But i would hate to see the pendulum swing the other way and see us chase after star in the belief that any one individual player excelling is the recipe to building a winner. that approach also sucks.

they seem to be straddling the line pretty well thus far, creating an environment that embraces skill and individual ability while fostering buy in from the group to work towards a shared long term vision (one that they all know many of them won't see come to full fruition)... that's what gives me a lot of confidence in the approach and makes it easier to be patient as it unfolds

I see a lot of similarities between MB’s looking for character and Hughes looking for culture. It’s a new word but a lot of the same. Sometimes I wonder if Lapointe, who is a common part, has had some influence in this.

Obviously they choose to keep him. But remember the video that came out where Gorton said that character was ok but not to forget talent…

There are things you can teach and there are things you can’t teach. You will never turn Anderson in a top end talent, no matter how much you teach him.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I see a lot of similarities between MB’s looking for character and Hughes looking for culture. It’s a new word but a lot of the same. Sometimes I wonder if Lapointe, who is a common part, has had some influence in this.

Obviously they choose to keep him. But remember the video that came out where Gorton said that character was ok but not to forget talent…

There are things you can teach and there are things you can’t teach. You will never turn Anderson in a top end talent, no matter how much you teach him.

On the positive side, Anderson has the size and speed that equally can’t be taught. Its only a matter of time before he starts burying the chances his unteachable skills create.

 

[ReHabs]

I see a lot of similarities between MB’s looking for character and Hughes looking for culture. It’s a new word but a lot of the same. Sometimes I wonder if Lapointe, who is a common part, has had some influence in this.

Obviously they choose to keep him. But remember the video that came out where Gorton said that character was ok but not to forget talent…

There are things you can teach and there are things you can’t teach. You will never turn Anderson in a top end talent, no matter how much you teach him.

It’s easier to find intangibles wherever you look than for tangibles.

 

[Miller Time]

On the positive side, Anderson has the size and speed that equally can’t be taught. Its only a matter of time before he starts burying the chances his unteachable skills create.

I hope so!