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HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

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NORiculous said:
I see a lot of similarities between MB’s looking for character and Hughes looking for culture. It’s a new word but a lot of the same. Sometimes I wonder if Lapointe, who is a common part, has had some influence in this.

Obviously they choose to keep him. But remember the video that came out where Gorton said that character was ok but not to forget talent…

There are things you can teach and there are things you can’t teach. You will never turn Anderson in a top end talent, no matter how much you teach him.
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The words are meaningless, it's the actions that matter.

MB & Hughes are polar opposites in that regard.

Character & culture certainly do go hand in hand, but where one person simply repeats buzz words without a clue how to evaluate, support or live them, another decisively sets to work implementing them.

At the surface, might well sound the same, but look a little deeper and the important & obvious differences are quite apparent imo
 
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Miller Time said:
The words are meaningless, it's the actions that matter.

MB & Hughes are polar opposites in that regard.

Character & culture certainly do go hand in hand, but where one person simply repeats buzz words without a clue how to evaluate, support or live them, another decisively sets to work implementing them.

At the surface, might well sound the same, but look a little deeper and the important & obvious differences are quite apparent imo
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Without having a clue on how to evaluate and implement them ?

That seems a little extreme, don’t you think?

You mean the managment team that left Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Mailloux, Roy, Kidney, Hutson, etc. to name a few…?

Suzuki was brought in slow. MB needs to get at least some credit for that. Same for Caufield. Etc. (MB made similar mistakes to what Hughes is currently doing with Slafkovsky earlier in his career but learnt his lessons. On this aspect, at least)

I’m not trying to defend MB here, far from it, his last year was atrociously bad, among other things. But not every thing he did was shit AND let’s remember that not everything Hughes is doing is/will be great.

I do think that some parts of their approches are scary too close.
 
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NORiculous said:
Without having a clue on how to evaluate and implement them ?

That seems a little extreme, don’t you think?

You mean the managment team that left Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Mailloux, Roy, Kidney, Hutson, etc. to name a few…?

Suzuki was brought in slow. MB needs to get at least some credit for that. Same for Caufield. Etc. (MB made similar mistakes to what Hughes is currently doing with Slafkovsky earlier in his career but learnt his lessons. On this aspect, at least)

I’m not trying to defend MB here, far from it, his last year was atrociously bad, among other things. But not every thing he did was shit AND let’s remember that not everything Hughes is doing is/will be great.

I do think that some parts of their approches are scary too close.
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It's not about "everything MB did was bad" nor "everything Hughes does is good"... That kind of simplistic reasoning is of no value.

MB's leadership approach was piss poor. It's been discussed and debated as nauseum so I have little interest rehashing the countless examples that validate that assessment.

Hughes, this far, has been about as polar opposite to MB in his approach & I think that his actions speak volumes about his understanding of the nuances and challenging work of creating a culture of excellence.

That doesn't mean a miatake-free environment, far from it. Mistakes are a necessary part of the process...

How mistakes are made and how mistakes are managed is the key difference btw the two, and here again I think Hughes, in a very brief time (less than 2 yrs on the job) has shown himself to be a far superior leader.
 
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Habs' next four opponents: Lightning, Bruins, Red Wings, and Canucks. If they come out with 0-2 points, they'll be well on their way to the basement of the standings
 
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Jabba11 said:
What's the point of tanking if it's to grab another defenseman? While we can't score goals for shi*t lol
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Funny that you worry about this on a night where the Laffs & Oilers came up short despite their rosters being full of goal scoring talent but short on high quality D... :popcorn:
 
If we can somehow get a top 10 pick and convince some team to take Gally if they want Monahan...
 
Miller Time said:
The words are meaningless, it's the actions that matter.

MB & Hughes are polar opposites in that regard.

Character & culture certainly do go hand in hand, but where one person simply repeats buzz words without a clue how to evaluate, support or live them, another decisively sets to work implementing them.

At the surface, might well sound the same, but look a little deeper and the important & obvious differences are quite apparent imo
Click to expand...

Respectfully, Hughes and Co. had the chance to draft the second-most talented guy in a generational draft and they passed for a safe 2-way defenseman. I see no difference between that decision and something the previous group would have done.
 
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Jabba11 said:
What's the point of tanking if it's to grab another defenseman? While we can't score goals for shi*t lol
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They are well aware of what they need to add to the team and its looking like they may have made the right call. Reinbacher may just as well be considered the best defenseman in this class if he were in it as well.

Meanwhile this class is looking good for forwards with Celebrini, Eiserman, Demidov, Catton, Helenius, Lindstrom, Ritchie, and MBN
 
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Twisted Sinister said:
We needed to trade Allen to Edmonton while he was hot. They're in huge trouble with their goaltending. I feel like he'll cool down against the better teams.
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How do you know Edm even wants to trade for a goalie that’s not how Holland works historically

Twisted Sinister said:
Respectfully, Hughes and Co. had the chance to draft the second-most talented guy in a generational draft and they passed for a safe 2-way defenseman. I see no difference between that decision and something the previous group would have done.
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2003 was because of the # of HOFers that draft will end up producing

What made 2023 a generational draft?
 
salbutera said:
How do you know Edm even wants to trade for a goalie that’s not how Holland works historically
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I mean... "Holland is really dumb" is your argument? I suppose that's actually pretty valid :laugh:

salbutera said:
2003 was because of the # of HOFers that draft will end up producing

What made 2023 a generational draft?
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Bedard and Michkov mostly. But also a lot of talent in the top 30 in my personal opinion. And consensus.
 
Twisted Sinister said:
I mean... "Holland is really dumb" is your argument? I suppose that's actually pretty valid :laugh:
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No my argument is Holland doesn’t believe in spending on G, prefers to address other positions

Even w Det, owner (Illitch) and Pres (Devellano) had to force him to get Hasek - Holland was perfectly satisfied with Osgood despite all his limitations, same Jimmy Howard

Twisted Sinister said:
Bedard and Michkov mostly. But also a lot of talent in the top 30 in my personal opinion. And consensus.
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It’s too early to say how the draft will pan out - Bedard definitely seems to be as projected, same Carlsson & Fantilli based on very limited NHL sample set
 
salbutera said:
No my argument is Holland doesn’t believe in spending on G, prefers to address other positions
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Welp, ok. He appears to be burning another McDavid year while he fiddles if this continues.

salbutera said:
Even w Det, owner (Illitch) and Pres (Devellano) had to force him to get Hasek - Holland was perfectly satisfied with Osgood despite all his limitations, same Jimmy Howard


It’s too early to say how the draft will pan out - Bedard definitely seems to be as projected, same Carlsson & Fantilli based on very limited NHL sample set
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You can have a pre and post-draft opinion. This idea that you only see how good a draft was years down the road is silly. If the draft is full of above-average prospects relative to prospects from other drafts, it's considered a good draft at the time. I'm not talking about evaluations of whether or not every hockey person under the sun was wrong 5 years down the road.
 
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worst case is we're a bubble team at the deadline, either just in a WC spot, or within 5 pts of it. I would hate not to be sellers @ the deadline. A healthy Pearson and Monahan have some great value with how they're playing right now. If Armia can get going he might bring back a late pick, and if savard ever came back too. Just hate to buy at the deadline and hope to squeeze in a playoff spot.
 
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